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Syria's Torture Machine (Warning* Contains distressing scenes)

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posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 11:55 AM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


I did, actually. The woman I know who went to Syria visiting family flat out told me that nothing like they are saying in the media is actually happening. The people are more united than ever before. Now, this is not to say that al – Assad is a peace – loving democrat, because he is not, nor would I expect him to be. There are revolutionaries wanting to take down his regime, and if I were him there would be nothing stopping me from killing each one of them without mercy.

Do not be fooled into thinking several thousand angry protesters represent millions of Syrians. Al – Assad is demanding they halt their actions, they refuse, so he will stomp them out. I doubt he wants to harm civilians but the fact is, in any armed engagement inside cities, there will be innocents lost. Being a military vet, you know that even more than I do.




posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 11:58 AM
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While I do condemn the war crimes in Syria invading the country will not make progress. It will simply just be another Iraq and Afghanistan.



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 11:58 AM
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reply to post by Signals
 

There is the possibility that there is truth to the claims that are being made by the people of Syria. It's difficult to convey this point unless you've watched the documentry yourself. Now I do not see myself as a weak-minded liberal willing to join any loose-knitted cause, but the videos that were shown on the documentry have been validated by human rights watchdogs, doctors who have had experience with torture wounds, witnesses who have claimed to be tortured (their faces darkened to protect their identities. OMG they must be fakes!),they used translators to pinpoint local accents and used sources to back up their findings whenever they could. Until someone shows evidence to the contrary of this documentry's findings, not to mention the findings of the human rights watchdog, Amnesty International; I will assume it's because there isn't any or the opposing evidence doesn't hold water.
Am I against bombing Syria? Of course I am. More civilians died in Libya due to the NATO bombings than anything Gaddaffi apparently did. However, whatever is in motion right now will not be able to be stopped; regardless of the humanitarian cause.



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 12:00 PM
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Originally posted by Signals
There's plenty of countries committing atrocities against their people. Why should Syria be next on our list?



Agreed and discussing the atrocities being carried out in these various countries should be open and honest. What can be done to reduce it? Can we come up with any solutions other than intervention?



We don't fix anything by intervening, Libya is worse off, arguably so is Iraq...



Agreed.



I hope Russia puts its foot down this time.


No offense, but who gives a flying frog what Russia wants...



(And I say all of this with extreme loyalty towards the USA, we need to stop the wars now!)



Agreed.



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 12:10 PM
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Originally posted by Misoir
Now, this is not to say that al – Assad is a peace – loving democrat, because he is not, nor would I expect him to be. There are revolutionaries wanting to take down his regime, and if I were him there would be nothing stopping me from killing each one of them without mercy.


As is often pointed out here at ATS by both the left and right and those who falsely believe they are above that "Paradigm" One person's "Revolutionary/Terrorist are another person's Patriot/Savior".

Also, does "His Regime" represent what the majority of Syrians want? Maybe the "Syrians" want "His Regime" to give them back their country? Much like how the Iranians back in 1979 wanted their country back from the Puppet Shah?



Do not be fooled into thinking several thousand angry protesters represent millions of Syrians. Al – Assad is demanding they halt their actions, they refuse, so he will stomp them out. I doubt he wants to harm civilians but the fact is, in any armed engagement inside cities, there will be innocents lost. Being a military vet, you know that even more than I do.



"Do not be fooled into thinking several thousand angry protesters represent millions of Syrians."

You know, I've posted a very similar argument regarding OWS.

As far as civilian casualties. Of course people will be caught in the crossfire. We all know this. But, I am after other solutions. OK, Intervention is off the table [Irregardless of what Russia wants]


What's next?
How should the growing situation be resolved?
edit on 23-12-2011 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 12:34 PM
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edit on 23-12-2011 by solarstorm because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 12:38 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


The fundamental flaw I see here on ATS, and elsewhere in the world, is the universal application of democratic ethos. While it will make most people angry, I am not in any way shape or form a believer in democracy. But, if Canada wants democracy good for them, none of my business, but it is my business when people (not you specifically) advocate using our troops and money to ‘install democracy’.

Syria belongs to Al – Assad, that is how the system functions over there, and I have no problem with that. You know, democrats love to bomb other countries into conversion, how often do monarchies/aristocracies/autocracies bomb other countries into accepting their form of government?

I say do absolutely nothing at all. Let Al – Assad handle the situation regardless of what the majority think. The majority are almost always wrong in every situation imaginable. I am not saying that I believe our present leaders, or the ‘elected’ leaders of any modern country, deserve to hold absolute power, because the fact is they do not. They are incompetent people elected by other incompetent people. Whether or not al – Assad deserves to govern is not up to me. He disappointed me when saying that Syria is a democracy, that just shows he is worthless as a leader but still better overall than the Western leaders.

This is my fundamental belief: “They have set up kings but not by Me: they have made princes, and I knew it not: of their silver and their gold have they made them idols, that they may be cut off” – Hosea 8:4. I am a Christian, God called for a Monarch because he would be God’s leader for specific people on Earth and if God says that is the best ideal, and since God is all-knowing, then it is his leader or none. Is that a popular opinion? No, and I do not care.

As for OWS, I was actually happy to see that movement. Mostly because I had hope that the states would call up the national guard and knock some sense into the left-wing idiots running about.


edit on 12/23/2011 by Misoir because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by MacDonagh
 


Another 4 months and US + UK will be just like Syria, Europe too ... its been coming a long time ... whilst the tree huggers were out camping our "leaders" where changing laws, ..... were fcuked with a capital ASS.



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by scratcher
reply to post by MacDonagh
 


yeah, death and destruction gets boring after a while. Just find it hard to believe this can still happen , where are the UN troops, where is the humanitarian aid?
edit on 23-12-2011 by scratcher because: and a merry xmas to you too
What are they using torture for?

To extract information concerning enemy troop positions?...I doubt it...

Just like the extreme forms of torture used during the european witch hunts and during other times in history all over the world?...probably

And keep in mind everyone,brutal torture is performed on children and teenage girls on a daily basis all over this sick planet ...

There two answers...

One...People enjoy causing other people physical and emotional pain and get off watching them suffer...

Two...Our world has been taken over by demonic forces and has been ruled and controlled by them for a vey long time...

Either way...We live in a fallen world...
edit on 23-12-2011 by blocula because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69


What's next?
How should the growing situation be resolved?



In recent months, dissident soldiers have broken from the military to side with peaceful protesters and have attacked government forces. But Friday's attack was qualitatively different, adding new and ominous dimensions to a conflict that has already brought the country to the brink of civil war.


Twin suicide bombs shake Syrian capital, kill 44




Syria cant handle its own security. This is telling.



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by scratcher
reply to post by Misoir
 


So let me get this in perspective, a few murders and bombings , a dictatorship government, the economy going down the toilet, but everythings fine, sounds familiar.


You just described the US. A murder here, a murder there, and the occasional bombing. A government supremely disconnected from the People, oblivious to their outcries, telling them what to do and when and how to do it. Economy swirling down the drain at an accelerating pace.

I do not recommend invading us to "liberate" us, however.

Nor do I advocate saving the Syrians from themselves by force of arms.

ALSO: A word to the wise - when two brothers are pounding hell out of each other in a barroom brawl, DO NOT try to step in and break it up. The usual result is that they BOTH turn on you, and just start pounding hell out of you.



edit on 2011/12/23 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 06:03 PM
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Originally posted by nenothtu


ALSO: A word to the wise - when two brothers are pounding hell out of each other in a barroom brawl, DO NOT try to step in and break it up. The usual result is that they BOTH turn on you, and just start pounding hell out of you.






That is soooooo true.

I still have knots in my head,breaking up my male cousins fighting,and I am family!



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 06:05 PM
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reply to post by MacDonagh
 


I believe it was Benjamin Fulford who predicted that: after Iraq would be Libya, then Syria, then Iran...

Seems He is batting 1,000.

I say: Stop War, spread Peace. Release electrogravitics from black ops and free Humanity from poverty and war. (For more, see My thread: www.abovetopsecret.com... )



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 07:11 PM
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reply to post by Misoir
 


one secondhand testimony through the grapevine of a syrian born american is not enough to convince me that there isnt something going on, in light of everything happening in the region, turks fighting the kurds, palestinians and hamas against the idf, and probably millions of young muslim and arab who have come from all over the world to join the fight against the situation israel and saudi-arabia got us into. i have to say that the news lies, but the news exaggerates more than it fabricates, the iraq debacle was in fact propogated by the executive in office, and the media followed suit by exagerrating the lie, dont jump on the bandwagon now of thinking the world is candyland because the media makes some things up here and there, the point is .there is something brewing in syria giving reason for the media to put it in our face in an exagerrated manner. the entire region is picking sides, the news is boasting it up, because our economy thrives off war and the threat of war. we may have been the catalyst, but something IS happening in syria that is probably totally unrelated to chocolate.



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 07:16 PM
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reply to post by MacDonagh
 


I personally do not support the idea of any outside action to or against Syria, period. End of Story with no sequels. Syria isn't an international problem to solve unless Syria crosses international boundaries with their internal problems. They haven't. I'm sure they won't. We need to leave that whole thing alone and let the Syrians sort their own hash. We can make nice with whoever comes out on top, since I doubt it changes much in how Syria is toward the West either way.

Now I know Syria is being awfully hard and even brutal to it's people at the moment and that is a tragedy. I root for them to do something about it...but from THIS side of the Syrian border.

If that is enough to take Assad out of power, then what is the deal with the various nations that took in Al Qaeda prisoners as a part of the rendition and interrogation programs we loaned prisoners to other nations to handle for us? Are they not equally guilty?

Assad is a bad guy....but worse than many others? No.. I really don't think he is. So are we going to war against everyone next? That would have been good for a joke at one time...now we're really fighting, droning and missiling so many friggen places, I've lost count.

ENOUGH.... Bring 'em home. ALL OF THEM. Follow Ron Paul's advice and break the cycle of economic and societal dependence on the industry of warfare. This won't end any other way...the money is just so much more now than ever before.



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 08:23 PM
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Yet another youtube video that is censored from the U.S. I already know theres plenty the "elite" dont want the people of the united states to know about, but this is just obvious.



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 08:54 PM
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reply to post by MacDonagh
 


Here's a good read...

Jihadist in Syria: Myth or Reality



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 09:27 PM
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Originally posted by Misoir
A woman I know that emigrated here from Syria about 20 years ago just came back from visiting family in Syria, she told me that there was nothing going on like what is being reported on the news here. The people, according to her, have never been as united as they are now. She had nothing very negative to say about al – Assad; it was not like she was praising him either. Her family apparently owns a successful store in Syria and they are doing fine.

She even said that once her youngest child finishes schooling here that they are moving back to Syria because, as she said, the United States is not what they want you to think it is. The economy is horrible, something is ‘very wrong with the people’, and our government/media are compulsive liars. Then she asked if I wanted to kill her family and people, I said “why would I want to kill any of you? You are a very nice person, and I assume your family is much like you”. Which was honest on my part, I despise the wars and military intervention in the Middle East.

Then it led to her asking if I would like to go to Syria when she returns, I could help run the store. Obviously I kindly said no, I do not know much about the country nor can I speak Arabic. But my point here is that, much, if not all, of what you hear from the media are outright LIES. I would trust someone who has been there within the past month, who has firsthand experience, to give me a more honest review, even if slightly biased, than our US warmongering media and government.


No matter how much hearsay goes on it's always awesome to get first hand experience from a person who has actually lived/been to the place being talked about, nothing can compare in terms of honesty and accuracy.

The time that the "American Dream" was being advertised was based on a lie.. or more an unrealistic vision for the future. The bubbles and the prosperity cannot be sustained in the way it has been. There certainly are some places in the world that have less opportunity than the U.S., but there are more places that have better opportunities or just the same. It's usually not worth moving to the U.S. from across the ocean if you aren't rich and connected already.



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 09:29 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


I answered the question in the opening post. With regard to the atrocities by the Syrian govt, to be honest I have not followed the news on it and in general I dont even watch the national news anymore. Its difficult to sift through and decide what is news and and what is propaganda today as i'm sure your well aware.

But why consider just Syria, what about all the atrocities by all the oppressive gov'ts in Africa also. We have to stop "liberating" other countries while ours liberties and signed away. It's none of our business.




Agreed and discussing the atrocities being carried out in these various countries should be open and honest. What can be done to reduce it? Can we come up with any solutions other than intervention?


Slayer, i'm not up to speed on our involvement in other countries, but I would argue that our covert intervention is the problem countries face the world over. We install a dictator and then liberate the people after twenty or so years, Every one we take down, pictures come out of hand shakes with our top politicians decades before.
edit on 23-12-2011 by type0civ because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 09:31 PM
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Originally posted by Signals
reply to post by SLAYER69
 


There's plenty of countries committing atrocities against their people. Why should Syria be next on our list?

We don't fix anything by intervening, Libya is worse off, arguably so is Iraq...

I hope Russia puts its foot down this time.

(And I say all of this with extreme loyalty towards the USA, we need to stop the wars now!)


Syria should be next on the list because it does not have a Rothschild controlled central bank. Once of the few countries left in the world.




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