Why Does the Left Try so hard to Justify Terrorists in the Middle East?

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by jjf3rd77

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
And another post to ask, who exactly are the "terrorists"?

I hear a LOT of people justifying the actions of terror perpetrated by the invading militaries in the middle east...

In this case read the post. The terrorists are the 9/11 jihad extremists who attacked the world trade center in the name of their God Allah. I hope that's clear enough for you to understand.

And why are they the only terrorists? Why do you not consider outside armies INVADING countries and forcing capitalist ideals on those people to be terrorism?

When placing labels such as 'terrorist' on people, it seems one shouldnt be discriminating. That they worship a different god has nothing to do with it. If they are terrorists for committing bombings on another land in the name of a different ideal, how can you not apply that label to all who fit that description?

I hope the mods gave you an applause for this response. Well said. THANK YOU for being the voice of reason in this mad world.

*sigh*

reply to post by captaintyinknots


I don't see Americans highjacking planes and flying them into buildings regardless of the age and civilian status of the passengers.

I don't see Americans walking into subways with bombs strapped to their bodies and killing as many unarmed
people as they can just for the sake of killing as many unarmed people as they can.

I don't see Americans kidnapping eastern non combatants off the streets of the U.S, cutting their heads off and posting it on youtube.

I don't see Islamic jihadist wearing uniforms so that they can be identified for who they are.

I don't see Islamic jihadist doing what they can to help people who got in the way when they were attacking a military target. Oh wait. They don't attack military targtets just innocent civilians.

I didn't see any coalition forces in Afghanistan until one day a group of Islamic jihadist highjacked some airplanes and flew them into building in the U.S murdering thousands if innocet men women and children. And no they weren't casualties of war. They were murderd.

As I've said in a thread I posted. If these Islamic jihadist want to claim that they're soldiers then lets start shooting them for posing as civilians behind enemy lines and planning and carrying out attacks as per the rules of war.

I read through your entire post and can really answer all your points with "same with zionists."

zionists base their activities on a mythological book as their justification for israel.

They are intolerant of other religions at the level of their government, etc.

So the question is if im a racist for thinking zionists are bad how are you not a racist for thinking muslim extremists are bad.

I at least recognize the similarities but do you?

reply to post by followtheevidence

I hope the mods gave you an applause for this response. Well said. THANK YOU for being the voice of reason in this mad world. *sigh*

Wow - I have have a seen a lot of insane twisted comments before - but your should be framed and hung on the wall of the ministry of 'moral inversion' propaganda!

reply to post by jjf3rd77


You can't fight terrorism by killing terrorists. You have to also take into account what makes them turn to terrorism. The attacks against the US are what is considered BLOW BACK. These attacks didn't just plop into existence and regardless of how much people like you wish to simply it into something as containable as "they hate us because we are us", they aren't that simple.

Who the hell is suggesting that the Us response to 911 should have been nothing? No one, that's another one of your right wing fantasies.

But simply fighting the symptoms without addressing the causes means perpetual war, which is EXACTLY what the right wings want. Sure, you'll kill some terrorists, maybe even stop an attack, but guess what? Because you ignore the root causes, there will always be someone else stepping up to bat.

P.S. Tagging an edit at the end of your OP saying "this is only directly at extremist muslims" while complaining about their calender and other nonsense, doesn't make your dribble any less bigoted.

It's a shame, you've got most of a well thought out opinion, you just couldn't resist peppering it with crap.

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


Well, I put that crap there as you put it because many people think I am talking about all Muslims so please give me a break God!

Ok, we know pretty much that America and religious mythology plays a major role in the Terrorists' mind, so now that we do indeed know the root cause of the problem what can we do about it? Just sit around and not do anything about it? Because that's what you are insisting. Through hatred and propaganda these people hate us for more reasons than us trying to enforce freedom onto them I think. They live in a suppressed government where tyrants like to humiliate their own people and where the majority of people justify suicide bombs. I think the extremists are pretty smart and educated, if they spend nearly half the time they do hating and plotting against America learning basic math and science and trying to understand our point of views than the world will be a much safer place. But They refuse to do this too! It's not one sided evil America's fault. Ya know.

reply to post by jjf3rd77


"That is a FACT! Stated by numerous politicians, religious leaders, and International Government Agencies."

Best quote of the day! Say no more hahahahahahahahaha!!!

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

So now both muslims and I need to grow up? Kinda starting to think YOU have a lot of growing up to do.

1) But please, tell me what I have generalized about in this thread. Id love to see it.
2)I'm sorry you feel that this is a fight. I'm simply discussing, and asking questions.
3)please show me where I have stood up for the rights of terrorists. The only right I have stuck up for is that of each nation to govern as they see fit without being forced into another nations ideologies.
4)so your dream is to live materially and have wealth. That's great. Why do you think everyone needs to have that dream? How do you feel about those that would tell you that your dream is immature and stupid, and that they will change that dream, by force if necessary?

You are a word twister arent you? I never said you are generalizing, you are accusing me of generalizing or labeling in every other post! Now that you are beginning to attack me more for a stupid "capitalistic" (Oh how dare I) dream I have, let me ask you some questions and please answer them without being naive or twisting my words into other questions. Because as you have said, you have offered very little about what you think of their culture, you just believe they have the right to do as they do, even though they don't as they don't have the same rights as we do here in America.

Do you believe that dictatorships should have the freedom to govern their countries, when it is known what they do, they don't allow their people any freedoms, and they finance hated filled propaganda type groups to spread a false message around the world?

Would you rather live under those cultures with no freedoms to express your very position on this subject? What exactly would have been your plan after 9/11.

If war, education, and diplomacy is not the answer what is? Leaving them be to kill themselves and do more 9/11s because its collateral damage from before?

Do you believe that Muslim extremists have the right to spread their religion onto others using violence and other terrorist activities if any other Religion did this they would be under fire as well! But most modern-day religions have grown up out of that nonsense. As already stated in my OP

So you never answered my original question: The left feels that the Right does what they do based on the Christian Religion and yet, when talking about Muslims extremists they find any other excuse but religion to try and justify their actions. Why? I think screaming Allah at the top of their lungs and praying eight times per day before carrying out such horrific acts of violence speaks for itself.

reply to post by jjf3rd77


Just wanted to point out that you lose me the moment you started talking about the "commies".

All. credibility. shot.

According to the PEW research group 95% of the people in those countries feel it necessary to allow Religion in politic and that is unfortunately the root cause of the problem.It's not all America's fault. Until they are willing to grow up out of this Dark Age nonsense with religious mythology ruling their everyday lives, I say that the even the Modern Day Muslim population will always be at a disadvantage.

www.pewglobal.org...

But then, that makes me a racist Muslim hating war monger doesn't it?

Originally posted by steveknows
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

I don't see Americans highjacking planes and flying them into buildings regardless of the age and civilian status of the passengers.

I don't see Americans walking into subways with bombs strapped to their bodies and killing as many unarmed
people as they can just for the sake of killing as many unarmed people as they can.

I don't see Americans kidnapping eastern non combatants off the streets of the U.S, cutting their heads off and posting it on youtube.

I don't see Islamic jihadist wearing uniforms so that they can be identified for who they are.

I don't see Islamic jihadist doing what they can to help people who got in the way when they were attacking a military target. Oh wait. They don't attack military targtets just innocent civilians.

I didn't see any coalition forces in Afghanistan until one day a group of Islamic jihadist highjacked some airplanes and flew them into building in the U.S murdering thousands if innocet men women and children. And no they weren't casualties of war. They were murderd.

As I've said in a thread I posted. If these Islamic jihadist want to claim that they're soldiers then lets start shooting them for posing as civilians behind enemy lines and planning and carrying out attacks as per the rules of war.

edit on 23-12-2011 by steveknows because: (no reason given)

Oh yes, please justify all of these actions too. OP is waiting to hear more lame excuses about how it's not their fault.

Leftists aren't trying to justify terrorism in the Middle East. Just like Ron Paul's idea of blow back, in order to understand the rise in terrorist activities we must be honest about what helps create them in the first place. The US isn't all at fault of course but to take the idea that Islamic terrorists (which you speak of specifically) hate America because of our freedom is not only idiotic, but also insanely simplistic.

We have (along with allied nations, corporate institutions and the UN) raped their nations of true elections, helped install puppet murderous dictators (which are bribed and blackmailed), taken their wealth and resources and police their homelands. It's our foreign policy that has helped add gasoline to the fire. Those that like to paint Muslims as demonotic, sub-human and savages only do so in self-righteousness and to avoid the cognitive dissonance that would happen if they allowed themselves to see it any other way.

Hey jj, let me provide you with another perspective on this whole thing. I think what you need is more perspective, because you are honestly buying into this whole neocon BS propaganda - and I understand that, because I used to as well. I'm a pretty simple guy from the South (Southeast that is - greatest, proudest part of the US), grew up with an American flag hanging on our front porch, saying the pledge of allegiance every morning at school, I take pride in my country knowing we were the ones who saved the world from the Russians and commies, that we saved the world in WWII, that we started off this grand experiment in democracy. To this day, I'm a proud American and love my home. I grew up Republican, and I remember voting at age 18 for George W. Bush. I thought I knew everything about politics and thought we had every right to be in Iraq.

I was in highschool when 9/11 happened. I listened, and still do occasionally, to Neil Boortz, Hannity, Eric Ericson, and others. They all tell this line that it's the liberal democrats that just HATE America. Hell, Boortz was just talking about how liberal democrats just hate Christmas. One piece of advice though, keep reading alternative news sites and freedom of thought and expression sites like AboveTopSecret. Eventually you're going to see the writing on the wall - and it's not a conspiracy - this idea that the democrats are so drastically different from republicans is complete horse sh*t. Divide and conquer. Obama is making the same dumb mistakes Bush did.

I guess my point is, I remember thinking "why do the terrorist hate us? Why does the world hate us?" I remember guys in highschool comparing it to the way people just naturally hate whoever is the top dog, like the New York Yankees. These neocons on the radio told me it was because we're American, and given their beliefs and culture, they naturally hate us. And sure, to a significant extent, this is true. But keep in mind, more muslims are killed by these same terrorists than Christians, so there has to be something more to it than that.

I discovered Ron Paul about a year ago. And for the first time in my life, I had answers for all of the questions I had been asking for nearly a decade. Keep in mind, we're not justifying the terrorist, you cannot ever justify the evil associated with taking 3000 innocent lives, but we simply want to explain their actions and their hate. Ron Paul was the first person to ever used history to put the current state of affairs into its proper context for me. He pointed out that Osama Bin Laden told us why they didn't like us - because we were on their "holy land" setting up bases. And Dr. Paul had a point. If the Chinese set up bases in Texas, I wouldn't like it. And the South is well armed and well trained, so I can tell you many others wouldn't take so kindly to that around here either. Again, it doesn't justify what the terrorist did, but it helps explain their actions and gives the American people a proper context to put it in.

I'd like to make an anology. What if a guy shoots a cop in broad daylight, and starts running away on a bike in a crowded city? The cop's partner sees the murder, and not able to keep up with the murderer on foot, he runs to the only resource with speed he has - his patrol vehicle. Unable to get all the people out of his way, he slams his foot on the pedal and starts running over countless other civilians in persuit of the criminal, and eventually gets his hands on the murderer. Do you think killing all those innocent lives would be justified in catching the criminal? What if the cop told you "I saved everyone here from ever having to deal with this madman again, I had to do it", do you think the civilians would be grateful? Or do you think this would motivate civilians in trying to over throw the cop, or maybe even kill him if he incidently killed someone's relative?

Make no mistake, Al Qaeda will hate us no matter what we do. But we're kidding ourselves if we ignore the fact that our foreign policy has an impact, and a very LARGE impact at that, on why we have such a big target on our backs. It's time to wake up and smell reality, and make adjustments. It's not un-American to say we're not perfect and should make some adjustments for the betterment of the world. You can't save people from themselves, they'll never appreciate it without doing it themselves. It's no different than a kid appreciating money more after he has to work his first job and earn it. So this idea that Iraq may have been worth it is nonsense, especially at a trillion dollars and thousands of dead US soldiers. Wake up, stop buying into these parties that try to divide us.

Watch this video, I think it'll help add some much needed context for you.
www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Chewingonmushrooms


So I say again, since it's the USA fault for helping fuel the fire, what can we do about? Just allow various 9/11s to happen all over the US because the Muslims fail to educate themselves properly and refuse to get rid of their religious mythology in politics?

At least we try to give these countries a chance at being led to true democracy when leaders before did not want to have anything to do with it!

reply to post by MidnightATL


Besides for you love of Ron Paul your post was actually well thought out and I thank you. I never justified Americas horrific foreign policy either but I understand it. In my view Democracy is the best government and all peoples should have a choice if they want it or not.

So these people are not forced to give up their horrific dictatorships they are now allowed to choose if they want it because before they were not allowed.

This is all about jihad ie war against he infidels until they submit - plus 'politics is war' by the left because the only moral compass they posses is the pursuit of power. So naturally they have become bedfellows, despite Islam being everything the left 'professes' to abhor -it's like thembeing in bed with ultra fundie Christians or Jews for pete's sake!

All the rest is pure Sun Tzu - if you can prevent your enemy from even recognising they have an enemy then the war is a gauranteed win!

As for the 'war on terror' that should have been a one day bombing campaign on Mecca - Islam will only stop attacking the West whilst we have our boot firmly on their necks - sorry if you libs don't find it nuanced enough for you, but boo hoo -the truth is mostly brutally childishly simple!

Originally posted by jjf3rd77
reply to post by MidnightATL

 

Besides for you love of Ron Paul your post was actually well thought out and I thank you. I never justified Americas horrific foreign policy either but I understand it. In my view Democracy is the best government and all peoples should have a choice if they want it or not.

So these people are not forced to give up their horrific dictatorships they are now allowed to choose if they want it because before they were not allowed.

I know there's no love for "crazy loony" Ron Paul from the typical pundits on the radio, but the man is right about a LOT of things. More so than any other politician running for office. It took me a while to warm up to him too, after being brain washed my entire life - but keep an open mind when listening to him. WATCH the video, 15 minutes that will likely change your views for life. Listen to what the Veterans and active duty soldiers think. If you want to support the troops, listen to what they have to say.


The problem with the line of thought that we're installing democracy is it instantly gives you this idea that we're spreading warm fuzzies and we're the good guys here. You need to eliminate the "good guy/bad guy" mentality and approach it as a foreign thing. It's more like America giving Iraq a blue ball, where they had been using a red ball, and we're telling them that the blue ball is better than the red ball. The American Government is installing democracy because it's convenient to the image its selling to America. We're not opposed to overthrowing democracies and installing dictactor, we did it in Iran in the 50s. So it may fool the American public, but the people in the middle east know better.

You can't force democracy. Like I said, it has to be earned, not given.

reply to post by jjf3rd77


First of all if the country wants democracy then it's entirely up to them and shouldn't be force feed because we think it's good for them. The ME has it's own culture and own history, let them decide their own destiny. Of course we can't allow that to happen because we have very real interests in the area, which include fortifying our allies (Turkey, SA, Isreal), gathering fuel to supply our growth and continuation of our economy (Oil), and hoping to check rising powers (Russia, China, Iran). There are other reasons as well.

If we were to exit their land, stop sucking up their resources and interfering with their politics, I am sure you would see a drastic lowering of terrorism. We have had one major attack on US soil in how many decades? Does that attack truly justify the shredding of our civil liberties, and continuation of two wars (officially, other unofficially) that have killed millions of innocents and have cost our republic trillions? The dictation of a perpetual war land scape with no clear end in sight promising more American and foreign deaths along with spending crazy amounts of money we simply cannot afford? Think man, the War on Terror is bogus and has been bogus since it was started. You cannot have a "war on terror" like you cannot have a "war on murder", it is winless.

reply to post by JohhnyBGood


You think Islam would have stopped bombing the west if we bombed Mecca? Surely that would make them want to bomb us even more. Strange logic.

reply to post by MidnightATL


As I said before we don't force democracy we allow them to have the choice. Democracy is better than the conditional suppressing Government based on radical islam that they live under currently is it not?