Why Does the Left Try so hard to Justify Terrorists in the Middle East?, page 3

reply to post by captaintyinknots

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Well, as I stated in my OP. I think the modernized west wants a quick transition from extreme radical islam ruling the politics of the Middle East to proper Education and the freedom of democracy. You have to admit that democracy would be tons better than what those people have to live under today!

reply to post by jjf3rd77

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???
Now you are simply dodging the question, but your response is more telling than an actual answer would have been.

You are fine with a group bombing and killing in other nations to push an ideology, so long as
A)they are not muslim
And
B)they are pushing the ideal within which you have been indoctrinated.

don't you think before any attack by a muslim, the thought that goes through their head is 'i have to admit, it would be better if these people embraced allah"?

Don't you see the hypocrissy in your line of thinking?

And let's be clear, these wars have nothing to do with forcing democracy. By its very definition, democracy cannot be forced. It is about spreading capitalism.

Exacreply to post by charles1952

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Exactly! Its about what we believe is right, therefore we don't label it terrorism (even though, by definition, what america is doing is very much terrorism).

The fallacy comes in when I pose this question:do you not think that these groups are doing what they believe is right? Why is it that you so easily accept that your way is superior?

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
reply to post by jjf3rd77

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You are fine with a group bombing and killing in other nations to push an ideology, so long as
A)they are not muslim
And
B)they are pushing the ideal within which you have been indoctrinated.

don't you think before any attack by a muslim, the thought that goes through their head is 'i have to admit, it would be better if these people embraced allah"?

Of course I am not ok with bombing anybody, but I understand the motive. You can't educate these people or talk to these people they won't listen! So what's the solution wait it out and see if they grow up out of their extremist ways? Do you know how long that would take? OK or we can sit back while their dictators suppress basic human rights and kill their own kind? Seems justified to me!

Originally posted by jjf3rd77

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
reply to post by jjf3rd77

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You are fine with a group bombing and killing in other nations to push an ideology, so long as
A)they are not muslim
And
B)they are pushing the ideal within which you have been indoctrinated.

don't you think before any attack by a muslim, the thought that goes through their head is 'i have to admit, it would be better if these people embraced allah"?

Of course I am not ok with bombing anybody, but I understand the motive. You can't educate these people or talk to these people they won't listen! So what's the solution wait it out and see if they grow up our of their extremist ways? Do you know how long that would take? OK or we can sit back while their dictators suppress basic human rights and kill their own kind? Seems justified to me!

you seem very ok with it. You justify the american actions because "you gotta admit, democracy is better that what they have", yet you scream "TERRORIST!" At other doing the exact same thing, only they do it to us. You are a classic case of arrogance in this matter.

I am giving up on getting an actual answer here, so I will ask no more questions here. But you have certainly shown your hand-you think america is better, and has a right to force its way onto other nationss, but those nations that do the same to us are terrorists.

Try to see the forest from the trees my friend

reply to post by captaintyinknots

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Dear captaintyinknots,

This is turning out to be a more complicated issue than I thought, perhaps I'm not communicating well because of the time (almost midnight here).

(even though, by definition, what america is doing is very much terrorism).

We might have a discussion over that point. I think one could argue that it is a war being fought on the enemies' home ground. Or, there might be other ways to describe it besides "terrorism."

The fallacy comes in when I pose this question:do you not think that these groups are doing what they believe is right?

I'm not sure I see a fallacy, although we may have different meanings for the word. I agree that "these groups" are doing what they believe is right. For that matter I think every group is doing what it thinks is right.

Why is it that you so easily accept that your way is superior?

Depending on how you look at it, there are at least three different answers. 1) The US believes its land, people, and interests are being attacked, so they fight back. (Isn't that the same answer Islamic countries use?) 2) If you accept the idea of leaving people alone, the idea of conversion to Islam or death is abhorrent. So we're stopping it. 3) We believe it's important to have a friend in that region, and the Brotherhood and Wahabbis (Spelling?) are out to get them all. Use any or all answers if you'd like.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by captaintyinknots

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Hitler caused a holy war with jews! Muslims started a holy war with us. There's the difference. And I think we're going in circles because I never justified our wars. I just understand them. I would think others would too. So again, I ask what is the right solution to deal with the problem without wars, education, or diplomacy?

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by captaintyinknots

Depending on how you look at it, there are at least three different answers. 1) The US believes its land, people, and interests are being attacked, so they fight back. (Isn't that the same answer Islamic countries use?) 2) If you accept the idea of leaving people alone, the idea of conversion to Islam or death is abhorrent. So we're stopping it. 3) We believe it's important to have a friend in that region, and the Brotherhood and Wahabbis (Spelling?) are out to get them all. Use any or all answers if you'd like.

With respect,
Charles1952

Yeah more great answers! I especially like your number 2!

I don't believe in wars, but when one attacks us based on religion its backwards and US feels we have to fight it! Liberals should understand this all too well.

reply to post by jjf3rd77

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Why do people like YOU have to make generalizations about people like ME?

I do NOT condone terrorism.

You might want to find another site to spread such mulch.

Originally posted by jjf3rd77
reply to post by captaintyinknots

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Hitler caused a holy war with jews! Muslims started a holy war with us. There's the difference. And I think we're going in circles because I never justified our wars. I just understand them. I would think others would too. So again, I ask what is the right solution to deal with the problem without wars, education, or diplomacy?

what is your point? Hitler was a nationalist. You are a nationalist.

Many people would argue with you at length as to who started this "war". I will not bother, as there is no point to debating a nationalist.

And yes, you have justified these wars, and you have CERTAINLY justified them more than what you accused me of.

I will gladly answer your questions once you get around to answering mine. You know, the ones you have dodged for the last two ppages.

reply to post by jjf3rd77

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Dear jjf3rd77,

Doesn't the solution depend on your opponent? If they are certifiably insane then "The Glass Parking Lot" has an undeniable fascination.

If they're rational in the same way you are, then deals can be struck, the balance of power can be changed, a side will quit when they see they're beaten.

But what about when the other side is rational, but rational in a way that makes no sense to you. I think the Muslim militants are in this category. They believe that the US, even if it pulled everybody out of the Middle East, is incurably evil, just for being a free country with material wealth for the citizens. We allow homosexuality, blaspemy, alcohol, dogs in public, other religions, etc., so we must be destroyed. This is a fight to the death, a suicide mentality that can only be stopped by their own leaders or by force.

I'm not sure that their own leaders can contain them any longer.

I wish I had a magic answer for you, but that's all I've got.

With respect,
Charles1952

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by captaintyinknots

---

Dear captaintyinknots,

This is turning out to be a more complicated issue than I thought, perhaps I'm not communicating well because of the time (almost midnight here).

(even though, by definition, what america is doing is very much terrorism).

We might have a discussion over that point. I think one could argue that it is a war being fought on the enemies' home ground. Or, there might be other ways to describe it besides "terrorism."

The fallacy comes in when I pose this question:do you not think that these groups are doing what they believe is right?

I'm not sure I see a fallacy, although we may have different meanings for the word. I agree that "these groups" are doing what they believe is right. For that matter I think every group is doing what it thinks is right.

Why is it that you so easily accept that your way is superior?

Depending on how you look at it, there are at least three different answers. 1) The US believes its land, people, and interests are being attacked, so they fight back. (Isn't that the same answer Islamic countries use?) 2) If you accept the idea of leaving people alone, the idea of conversion to Islam or death is abhorrent. So we're stopping it. 3) We believe it's important to have a friend in that region, and the Brotherhood and Wahabbis (Spelling?) are out to get them all. Use any or all answers if you'd like.

With respect,
Charles1952

I know you are arguing the other side, but you are still making my points.
1)we certainly COULD have a discussion about whether or not american actions abroad are terrorism, or a war. We could have THE EXACT same conversation about those that aare fighting against america. The word terroroism is completeley subjective, and will ALWAYS fit when used to describe one seen as an enemy. The meer fact that the op used such labels shows a bias from the start.

2)exactly. Every group is doing what they think is right. And every group is trying to force their way on another. So why is only one a terrorist?

reply to post by captaintyinknots

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What questions have I not specifically answered of yours? I have answered all of them as did other posters too l. Just because you do not like my answer doesn't mean I didn't answer it.

reply to post by captaintyinknots

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It's definitely easier to pick the side with freedom, wealth, democracy and relative peace. I don't know why others would want to choose something different because in the countries you are defending you wouldn't even be allowed to question their gov't

Originally posted by jjf3rd77
reply to post by captaintyinknots

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What questions have I not specifically answered of yours? I have answered all of them as did other posters too l. Just because you do not like my answer doesn't mean I didn't answer it.

you haven't answered, you have dodged, but ill give you one more chance:
Why do you consider it to be terrorism if muslims use force to push and ideology, but not when america does the exact same thing?

reply to post by jjf3rd77

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If you're naive enough to think that this describes the U.S, then good luck.

I say, let the people in the Middle East sort it out on their own. If we hadn't meddled with their affairs decades ago, we wouldn't have terrorism or terrorists!

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