The Santa Myth: Should we perpetuate the lie to children?

To all those on this thread who think that perpetuating the 'myth' of Santa is lying. How

many of you have indulged in this form of 'adult deception' e.g.


# Does this dress suit me? .....................Yes [when you've never seen them look worse]

# I've only had the one drink.....................When you've had thee, four or five

# New shoes dress?...........................No had them ages

#How much was that (whatever)....................only ££'s quoting at least half of actual cost

# Been working late....................when actually had a quickie at the pub with friends

# That meal was delicious..................when it was undercooked and awful

# Phone rings................................Tell them i'm not in!

# Phone in sick at work........................when you want some extra time off?

etc................etc................etc.............

Originally posted by BadNinja68
These aren't "Lies to condition" our kids, these are fairy tales.

We tell our kids that fairy tales aren't real, though. That's the difference.

I don't know where people get the idea that not lying to your children means you have to turn them into little depressed cynics at the age of 2. No one is suggesting such EXTREMISM! Jesus!

I agree completely with this post:

reply to post by Threegirls


We don't have to make up lies to tell our children for them to experience wonder, beauty, joy and the Christmas Spirit!

There comes a time in the life of children when they need to understand that the spirit of Christmas as represented by Santa is the spirit of giving.

You don't have to be a killjoy about this.

Allow children to enjoy their childhood.

reply to post by eletheia


I'm talking about lying TO OUR CHILDREN... They depend on us to tell them the TRUTH.

reply to post by Whipfather


If you ever have children don't be such a killjoy.

You don't have to encourage the lie but you don't have to kill the spirit of the season either.

I never told my kids the lies about Santa, the Easter Bunny or any of that nonsense and they are having a happy childhood.
I don't think that telling these lies does irreversible damage to them. But I see no positive benefits in perpetuating these outdated customs.
My kids were always the ones to break the news to their little friends in kindergarten that there was no Santa and that it was their parents who were buying the gifts. Needless to say, a lot of the parents became irate when their little lies were exposed.
I was glad that my kids spoke up and told the truth. Fortunately as they got older they developed tact and a better since of timing.

reply to post by Afterthought


I agree, whimsy (not lying, but story telling and not saying it's true) is great, fantastic even, I simply can not get behind this particular fantasy, as it is now.

I have seen too many children who find the story wonderful, turn to quivering wrecks when confronted by the santa's in stores, at schools and such. They literally scream and beg not to be given to the guy but parents just smile embarrassed by the child's behaviour and force the child onto santa's knee. It's heartbreaking to watch.

I also see the kids who have dreadful Christmas's, parents getting drunk and shouting because of the stress, the kids who associate it with the death of a parent and others too. I see too much suffering at this time of year to be able to support it. Children suffering due to the way we do it.

Domestic violence rises, abuse of all kinds does. We do it wrong.

If a family does it right, this time of year can be all that the many people say it is, but the excesses of spending, obligatory gift giving, the emphasis on it being the best one ever and getting what you want and if you don't, you haven't
been good, no matter if your parent's are penniless.

Namaste

Regarding whether or not kids should believe in Santa, I think Uncle Buck says it best.



Main quote I'm referring to:
"I don't think I want to know a kid who's not a dreamer or a silly heart."
Then, what he tells her to do is so funny!

I've read somewhere once that study shows it is not a positive thing to treat your children as if they're "dumb", unable to comprehend you, or too young to understand you. In fact, it is very healthy to talk to young children as if they are an adult. It stimulates their brains at a very young age, which in turns increases/stimulates their potential mental development.

1. The normal way of how we treat/play/teach our young: "O booo bo oo booo booo, looky at the big truck... you likey likey?"

2. A better method, probably the most correct method: "Hey.. look, that's a truck! Those are headlights, those are tires..., that is the engine... etc. etc. blah blah"

So, basically, I do not think it is a good idea to teach our young that a magical old man with a white beard, who breaks and enters your house via the chimney chute... to bring you presents...., somehow without stalking you, he knows whether if you are naught or nice... good or bad... Oh c'mon dude... don't dumb down the kids, they are smarter and way more capable than you think, even at their toddler stage.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic







I would imagine that seeing that kind of lying between the parents (as in my previous post)

would have more of a detremental impact on the development of a child than the 'myth' of

'Santa' in their early years

reply to post by Afterthought


Nah, kids say it best




The horrific title of the vid says even more! Poor children.

reply to post by eletheia


I'm not advocating lying of ANY kind. I think a parent lying to an innocent child is much more harmful to them than it would be for a husband to tell his wife she looks thin in a dress... You're taking the discussion to extremes... No one is suggesting that we lie in front of our children either... Jesus!

Just say NO to lying!

This is never going to go anywhere. Parents should do what they want. If you don't want your kids to believe in something imaginary, then don't. If you do, then do it.

Kids will believe in whatever they want. As the same child believes you to be their entire world when they're younger, as a teenager, you won't exist. Isn't this the same thing that happens to Santa?


Edit to Add: By "not existing", I mean that they won't want to be caught dead with you in public in case they run into their friends.

reply to post by FlySolo


Hi,

I completely agree with the idea that spreading the idea that a magical man that runs around in a sleigh giving gifts to the good children around the world is ludacris. I guess ALOT of kids in Africa are bad then. Sure it's masked with good intention, but really it's a conditionning tactic: "Be good or Santa won't give you any presents!"

When I was a kid, I figured it out and my friends 12 year old sister told me that I was right. The scary part is that some parents would still try to convince me and their children (mostly their children) that I was wrong and that he does exist. This created many problems with certain families. So, this can have different impacts on a young developping mind:
1) You can shatter the kid' correct logical process installing doubts in himself. You figure it out then they convince you otherwise. Confusion. It's a form of bullying.
2) You encourage the kid to say nothing to peers thus initiating him to the "lie" and giving him this false sense of power over other young innocent humans as you are now more part of the "adult world".
3) The kids figures of trust (parents and the such) in his life mislead him.
4) We basicly learn that lying is ok.

Why would you do that? This lie is more complicated then simply saying:" Look kiddo, I am santa claus because I work for the money that buys your gifts and if your not good to Mommy and I well no gifts for you."

Some people responded to me by saying:" Ya but didn't you like the magic it brought and to see the kids eyes light up when they see him, blabalbalblablalbal." You know what! Nature is awesome. We got tons of beautiful natural magical phenomenons happenning constantly. We don''t need this lie so that kids can have a happy childhood. Heck! If you give a bowl of rice a day to certain kids in some parts of the world you will make them live magical moments. This is all social conformity: your child will feel left out because he doesn't belong to the social paradigm of Santa like others are. Not part of the same matrix.

In the end your kids should respect the parents and not the fake fat man whos only sustenence is candy, cookies and milk. Why don't we just show them that sharing the way to go and that surprises are still fun minus the fat man. Why must he be part of the equation?

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic





So your children were never read 'Fairy Tales' at bed-time ??

reply to post by Threegirls


Domestic violence in some household is a reality and not only during the festive period, sadly.

In America, where at least 3 quarters of the population are christians, either churchgoers or at heart, do know what the event is for, a time of giving, a time of joy, a time of reunion and more critically, a time of rememberance on the redemption of mankind by the selfless act of one lone mortal being.

No matter what had happened in the preceding days or months prior to these event, it is that one special day for that rememberance, of how we are to treat our fellow humans, more so those whom we love and care about, espacially kids.

Fairy tales for young children are harmless, and is only an aid to help prepare them for the world. Most of the fairy tales do contain positive values, which can be related to realities in the real world, such as reward and punishment.

As the child grows, they will be weaned off the actors within the tales, but the morals of the storys told, for rewards are indeed given to the kind, the righteous are true in the real world, just as negative traits are punished, throughout even to our adulthood as in the course of our current civilisation.

Furthermore, fairy tales do give a child the spark to imagination, of a better world as they progress to adulthood. Our science fiction writers are proof of such facts, which led to our technological developement such as satellites, space shuttle, etc.

So, is perpetuating the Santa Myth or even fairy tales to pre-schoolers considered a lie?

The truth is, there IS a Santa Claus. He is the parent, more critically central to the message in the myth, who gave him the present when he/she had been good, just as the child will be rewarded if he/she had done good as he grows up, and punished if he/she turns bad, with society being the Santa Claus this time. And if the child have a religious upbringing, as he grows up, he/she will know that it will be our Creator who is the ultimate judge, of time and space, watching over us all.

Free will exists. It's one's choice on how to bring up one's child, so long as the parents do not hurt or harm the child's developement through the different stages of their lives. They are all equally precious.

Originally posted by eletheia
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

So your children were never read 'Fairy Tales' at bed-time ??

We tell children that fairy tales are NOT true. They are fairy tales.
We tell children that Santa Clause is real. That's a lie.

If you don't see the difference, I can't help you.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by eletheia

 

I'm talking about lying TO OUR CHILDREN... They depend on us to tell them the TRUTH.

But if you NEVER lie to your children then they will think everyone tells the truth, and be bad at telling when people are lying.
It serves a good purpose, that's why it is O.K. to lie to the little kiddies about things like Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, Rudolf, Jesus, Frosty the Snowman, etc, etc.

I told my niece(6) and nephew(4) that santa didn't exist, and that your parents buy the gifts for you. They took itok, i think my nephew even said "thats what i thought, because our chimney is closed, he is too fat", i started teaching my niece about bacteria and viruses, how magnets work, multiplications...

lets give them knowledge instead of fairy tales, there are books for that. Keep reality and fairy tales in their own separate place. Last thing they wanna do is doubt themselves about why they didn't receive the gift they wanted.

Oh yeah don't forget about less fortunate kids that share the same classrooms.

Children should be allowed to learn that the world isn't black and white. There are grey areas.
For the record, I've never met anyone who was angry with their parents for allowing them to believe in Santa, but I've met one person who felt cheated because their parents stopped the fantasy in its tracks.

Think back to the little girl in "Miracle on 34th Street". That little girl was so uppity and thought she was better than all the other kids just because she "knew" Santa wasn't real.

Then, I have to wonder if Santa actually used to be real, but since cynical people decided to quit believing, he no longer exists. Or maybe he quit believing in us. I wouldn't blame him because I've been feeling the same way lately.