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The Santa Myth: Should we perpetuate the lie to children?

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posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 12:58 PM
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I think it's very sad that someone would come up with a thread like this

Children love Santa

Where would we be without imagination our lives would be pretty dull...




posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 04:07 PM
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My opinion as a parent is that I should teach my child to enjoy her choices and let others enjoy theirs and to try and refrain from going on crusades to force everyone to adopt her world view and tailor their existence to suit her personal preferences, even if she believes her position to be logically superior.
edit on 27-12-2011 by SheeplFlavoredAgain because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by DarknessMatters

The belief in a Santa Clause by children should be encouraged. They're children. Let them stay innocent
When the innocence of Santa Clause fades away, the dark, cruel, reality of this sick world, creeps in. Is why I say, let them be innocent for as long as possible.


Oh come on.

Family isn't still about loving and giving? What's wrong with a little positive fantasy?

Of course parents are still responsible for how they handle it and don't let it (or anything) go beyond the fun of pretend.



posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by vasaga
For the ones saying it doesn't create materialistic children, here you go:



This doesn't prove that it creates materialistic children. All that this proves is that kids don't react well when you build up their expectations and then let them down. Which is exactly what is happening in this video.

It's a pretty cruel trick to play on a child.



posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 05:41 PM
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reply to post by RMFX1
 

It wasn't supposed to be a completely serious post, although it does have some merit. The little girl who got the half eaten sandwich was still pretty polite, like it should be. But most of the others.. Well, they got aggressive when they didn't get what they wanted. Whether these expectations are still there subconsciously after they find out that Santa is real is debatable, although some of the kids already knew it was their parents but obviously still got mad.. But I digress.. Point is.. Would you want to even risk your kid remaining like that or even small elements of that for the rest of its life just for the sake of tradition and temporary fun? I personally wouldn't. But maybe others have different priorities... Ultimately in their late life, children will always remember how you made them feel in particular moments, and not what you gave them. Those can be connected, but that's definitely not necessary.



posted on Dec, 28 2011 @ 02:52 PM
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Kids have to be taught 365 days a year how to regard material things and put them in perspective, and these lessons need not be harsh but can be fun, too. It's not just the Christmas response we parents need to be mindful of. There are going to be build ups and disappointments coming up nearly every week of every year in some fashion or another. There are also going to be opportunities for generosity and charity throughout the year. If we address these "teachable moments" that happen through the regular course of life, Christmas, at least in my experience, isn't a problem at all. In fact, it's a joy, as most things connected with well brought up kids usually are.

Christmas really is just the time of year we celebrate the good traits and values we should be nurturing in ourselves and in our families the other days of the year.



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by DarknessMatters
 


Surely the parents, and other family, should be those beings who love them unconditionally? Why should there be a mystical being? I think its corrupting the child to make them believe such things. Be honest with them, dont lie to them.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 05:47 AM
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Originally posted by Firefly_
Why should there be a mystical being? I think its corrupting the child to make them believe such things.

Be honest with them, dont lie to them.


How about you stop telling other people how to bring up their kids?

What makes you think you have the right to do so?



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 06:03 AM
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I made this point in another topic, but what about the (potential) myths we all tell our children (and ourselves) to varying degrees?

That we can all do anything we put our minds to and be successful (we aren't gods - everyone has their limits. There are going to be things each person can't do, no matter what. Some more than others.) That we definitely, with 100% certainty, have free will (there is a growing body of evidence that volition is illusory, even in an indeterministic universe.) That notions of fairness and justice are somehow innate or guaranteed (they most assuredly aren't. We created them for all we know, and they most certainly don't seem to always apply. Children are going to have that notion shattered repeatedly throughout their lives, yet people teach it to their children anyway.)

That we know with certainty that anything actually matters... at all. (We don't. We assume it does because we need to feel that our lives aren't meaningless. But for all we ultimately know they might be, whether we like how that feels or not, and regardless of our instinct to cry, "But it can't all just be for nothing!" We don't know. Yes it can.) That unconditional love is all that is required for relationships to succeed (love can be unconditional, but relationships are by their nature conditional; people make demands of their significant others beyond just "love me" whether one thinks that's right or wrong.)

Those are all beliefs, without proof, and certainly debatable at the very least (in some cases, at least in my opinion, they are outright lies by the standards put forth in this topic for what constitutes a lie.) They are things people routinely teach their children or at best passively suggest to their children. They are also things people routinely tell themselves as adults.

Don't these (potential) myths cause harm to children too, at least by the standards put forth herein? Should we teach children to be completely nihilistic and existentially objective from birth? It's not what I would do personally, but again, people are free to raise their children however they want provided they aren't breaking any laws.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 08:57 AM
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reply to post by ollncasino
 


Im not, it was a suggestion, not an order. But people wonder why the world is such a mess when we lie to kids from birth. Its not a good thing. But I guess its just easier to go along with what everyone else does rather than break the mould and think for yourself.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by Firefly_
Im not, it was a suggestion, not an order. But people wonder why the world is such a mess when we lie to kids from birth. Its not a good thing. But I guess its just easier to go along with what everyone else does rather than break the mould and think for yourself.


Or better still, let you do my thinking for me?


Can I make a suggestion?

Could you kindly stop telling everyone else how to raise their kids?

Just a suggestion.




edit on 1-1-2012 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 11:14 AM
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reply to post by vasaga
 


So you'd prefer if Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy were all banned?

Santa's harmless and doesn't create materialistic brats, that's only when a parent overindulges and gives in to demands throughout the year instead of treatign Christmas and birthdays as the only two times in the year when a child can get a day of presents and fun.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by Whipfather
We actually had exactly that discussion last night, fueled by quite a number of wine bottles.


I was just about the only one who thought that lying to our children about Santa was something that we, in fact, should absolutely NOT do. I actually found the perfect example of why I hate the idea of telling my hypothetical children that Santa exists in The Santa Clause (with Tim Allen, who else
). When his son asks about how Santa can get from house to house in such a short time despite logical flaws with the story, and how his reindeer can fly, Tim Allen replies "That's just how he gets around. Sometimes believing in something means that you just believe."

Bam. Couldn't have explained the problem I have with "The Santa Myth" (and organized religion any better). Instead of letting children question the nature of things and encouraging rational thought and skepticism, more and more elaborate lies are created to keep up a false image.

Apart from the "faith"-based problems I have with Santa Clause, I think that modern-day Santa is the worst possible personification of Christmas. Christmas should be about spending time with your loved ones, taking a break from day-to-day stress and just enjoying life as it is. Instead of focusing on this, we perpetuate a myth about an old man who runs a sweatshop filled with generations of workers who were bred to work 364 days a year, who never experienced life outside of the factory, and who can reduce a child's entire character and personality over the course of one year to "good" or "bad." Great. Let's make Christmas about materialistic gifts.

Don't get me wrong - I have no problem with telling children about "the story" behind Santa Claus or St. Nicholas. I grew up with the story, too. I also grew up with the story of the tooth fairy. As much as my parents are conservative-leaning Catholics, they never shoved any beliefs or "facts" in my face. they maintained that it (whether it's Santa, Jesus, the Tooth Fairy) is just a story, that doesn't have to be true, that simply stands for something.

What I think many people falsely believe is that by calling something a story and not the true, factual story, you take away the magic. To quote most of my friends last night "Santa is about the magic, it makes it nice for kids. Without Santa, it wouldn't be magical. By not making them believe in Santa Clause, you ruin their Christmas."

How can you even say that? how dare you say that Christmas isn't "magical" without Christmas"? Christmas is "magical" because of the relaxed and intimate atmosphere, special food and drinks, spending time with your family... and fancy mood-lighting.
How is that not enough? Why do some people believe that you need to make up a character that makes it more magical, regardless of how illogical and false it is?

Isn't this enough? All this?


I actually had this same debate with my father.

100% agree. Perpetuating falsehoods is just simply a bad idea. It does have other repercussions too... Like, my 9 year old brother still believes while his 6 year old friends are making fun of him because they know there is no Santa. My little brother then proceeded to punching the kid.

Some magic, eh? It doesn't preserve innocence. Innocence != believing in a falsehood. Innocence = lack of guilt.

Perpetuating Santa inspires greed and instills a certain expectation of reward.

In other words... Adults don't teach their kids about Santa because if there is no Santa they have a ruined Christmas.... Adults teach their kids about Santa because THEY THEMSELVES think it's fun. It's 100% selfish.

Kids know what they are taught... if they are taught santa, then you take away santa you ruin christmas... if they are never taught santa, they will still love christmas....

Wake up, people.

Outright lying to your children is NEVER okay. Outright lying to ANYBODY is always wrong.
edit on 1-1-2012 by Laokin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 12:45 PM
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I just think it's hilarious how defensive (and then accusatory) some people are getting. If you find yourself getting mad over this topic, it's probably because you have a problem with your choice, whether that's to do Santa or not. I don't see anyone telling others how to raise their kids. I see adults discussing the merits of perpetuating what is, in fact, a falsehood, whether you choose to apply the connotation of the label "lie" to it or not. But I was never very good at explaining the difference between a lie and a "fib" or other such synonyms for lies.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 12:56 PM
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The question on if there is a Santa Claus or not has once again come up. The question is often answered with a yes or a no, from all ages of people, no matter where you are in the world.
The best answer to the op’s question comes from the first time the question was asked in public, and answered: www.newseum.org...

No matter if you believe or not, the better question should be to ask, is it wrong to destroy a child’s innocence and belief in something special about the holiday, or let them have the moment, to enjoy and reveal with all of its glory, splendor and magic of the season. For myself, when growing up, the best joy of the season, was not the presents, or the food, but the decorations, and the lights. My parents would take me and my siblings out to see the Christmas lights in a neighborhood known for such. The tree was up, and pretty, and decorated, with twinkling lights. That was a magical time in my life, and I would have been devastated if someone had told me that Santa was not real. Later on, while I did learn about the origin of Santa and the different versions of him, even the saint that lived so long ago, to which we call St. Nicholas, there is a magic about the season, people when not shopping or stressing out about getting that one gift, are pretty decent to each other for the most part.

Let the children have Santa, let them have, even if for a moment, a bit of happiness in a rather dreary world. To do otherwise is monstrous and one where the dreams of what could be are dashed against reality. So if I had children, I would perpetuate the myth of Santa Claus and keep it alive so the children would have a bit of happiness in an otherwise dreary world.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 01:14 PM
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Originally posted by sdcigarpig
Let the children have Santa, let them have, even if for a moment, a bit of happiness in a rather dreary world. To do otherwise is monstrous and one where the dreams of what could be are dashed against reality. So if I had children, I would perpetuate the myth of Santa Claus and keep it alive so the children would have a bit of happiness in an otherwise dreary world.


I feel really bad for your future kids. To think that your children wouldn't have "a bit of happiness in an otherwise dreary world" without Santa is really sad. My kids are happy, normal, well-adjusted, smart and full of joy. And that's for the *other* 364 days of the year. Christmas doesn't make much difference to their happiness one way or another, let alone Christmas with the Santa lie. Acting like Santa is all that brings them happiness, and that without the Santa lie parents are robbing their children of joy is disingenuous and ridiculous. Unless you really believe what you're saying, then I feel awful for your future kids, LOL.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 04:01 PM
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Originally posted by 00nunya00
I feel really bad for your future kids. To think that your children wouldn't have "a bit of happiness in an otherwise dreary world" without Santa is really sad. My kids are happy, normal, well-adjusted, smart and full of joy. And that's for the *other* 364 days of the year. Christmas doesn't make much difference to their happiness one way or another, let alone Christmas with the Santa lie.


I wondered who these people were who were so anti-Santa. After all it makes no sense.

I suspect that people who are so anti-Santa have a religious axe to grind.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 07:31 PM
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Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by 00nunya00
I feel really bad for your future kids. To think that your children wouldn't have "a bit of happiness in an otherwise dreary world" without Santa is really sad. My kids are happy, normal, well-adjusted, smart and full of joy. And that's for the *other* 364 days of the year. Christmas doesn't make much difference to their happiness one way or another, let alone Christmas with the Santa lie.


I wondered who these people were who were so anti-Santa. After all it makes no sense.

I suspect that people who are so anti-Santa have a religious axe to grind.


Actually, some of the most anti-Santa people I've met have been very religious. Personally, I love Christmas and all its magic and fun. I have no beef with religion, just the followers. It's lies that I have an axe to grind about.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 09:13 PM
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reply to post by ollncasino
 


funny you should say that, because from my point of view alot of people are acting like santa is a religion, and anybody who does not teach it or believe in it are attacked or looked upon as 'doing it wrong' or other people feel a need to defend their beliefs and practices and feel offended when their beliefs and practices are challenged by people discussing it.

alot of people act like this is a forbiddon subject, like your not allow to discuss the santa thing.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 10:41 PM
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reply to post by FlySolo
 


I absolutely agree. I have 2 children, One is 9 and the other is 6. When my daughter turned 6 we told her the truth and now that my son is 6, my wife and I told him the truth shortly after Christmas. I have a hard time lying to my children and they should be grateful for whatever they get, because one day my wife and I might not be able to afford what the want. We still do traditional Christmas with the presents but Christmas should be a time for family and to appreciate and be grateful for having each other.




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