The Santa Myth: Should we perpetuate the lie to children?

lesson learnt, never challenge the santa thing, never say bad things about santa, never have a opinion in a public place about it.

a thread was started asking a question, numerous opinions were given in favour and against, but why do some see that as a personnal attack against them and how they do things? some people just cannot seem to accept there are people with different opinions and ways of doing things other than what they have been TOLD to believe and how to act around christmas and how to celabrate it and even what they should eat.

we don't need santa, if you do thats your business, but my negative opinions about him and anybody elses should not be taken as personnal attacks against you.
guess what, i will not be having a roast dinner today either just because everybody else is. i decide what i eat and when i eat it, i decide what is worth celabrating today and what is not, and santa does not figure. sorry.

but what ever does figure in your christmas today, i hope you all have a nice day, and lots of fun.

I wouldn't consider the Santa myth to be that destructive...do or don't, I don't think it really has that much of an effect. Most kids figure out on their own anyway.

Now the 'god' myth, on the other hand...THAT's something we might want to reconsider telling our children.

Anyway, my thoughts on 'Santa':

[speculate]
The Santa myth will, inevitably, be perpetuated because it's an absolutely brilliant marketing scheme. If your kids think that there's some magical old white dude who flies around in a sled and can give them (theoretically) anything they want, then they're going to have some pretty high expectations for Christmas gifts!

Great for consumerism!
[/speculate]

Originally posted by MollyStewart

No it doesn't. Christianity stole it and gave it to someone else.

reply to post by steveknows

 

Christianity stole what and gave it to whom?
Sources or opinion?

Yes the Santa things is actually a pagan thing and it was put together with St Nick. It's all pagan from Christmas to the Christmas tree to the misltoe it all has pagan roots..


en.wikipedia.org...

itthing.com...

www.bbc.co.uk...

But the best places to look is your city library as they have so much more on hand than a local or suburban library.

There's alot of scholarly research on the matter and it says that it's got pagan roots.

I disagree that Santa Claus has pagan roots when viewed in light of the fact that the archetype was a:

"Saint Nicholas (Greek: Ἅγιος Νικόλαος, Hagios ["Saint", literally "Holy", Latin: Sanctus] Nicolaos ["victory of the people"]) (270 – 6 December 343),[3][4] also called Nikolaos of Myra, was a historic 4th-century saint and Greek[5] Bishop of Myra (Demre, part of modern-day Turkey) in Lycia."

According to this Wikipedia entry:
en.wikipedia.org...

and there fore there is no harm in remembering this Saint and role model for charity and giving.
Even if he has been repackaged in an unrecognizable fashion and stripped of all Christian affiliation.

Merry Xmas!

It's almost noon in Germany.
Santa has come and gone.
It was a beautiful morning, Santa did his job and was appreciated by all.

Merry Christmas one and all.

reply to post by beezzer


Yep it was the same here. Many happy faces all round.

Originally posted by Xygoat
I disagree that Santa Claus has pagan roots when viewed in light of the fact that the archetype was a:

"Saint Nicholas (Greek: Ἅγιος Νικόλαος, Hagios ["Saint", literally "Holy", Latin: Sanctus] Nicolaos ["victory of the people"]) (270 – 6 December 343),[3][4] also called Nikolaos of Myra, was a historic 4th-century saint and Greek[5] Bishop of Myra (Demre, part of modern-day Turkey) in Lycia."

According to this Wikipedia entry:
en.wikipedia.org...

and there fore there is no harm in remembering this Saint and role model for charity and giving.
Even if he has been repackaged in an unrecognizable fashion and stripped of all Christian affiliation.

Merry Xmas!

As well you have the right to disagree. As for me I'll stick to the facts and follow the scholars. Merry Christmas to you as well.

Originally posted by lifeform11

we don't need santa, if you do thats your business, but my negative opinions about him and anybody elses should not be taken as personnal attacks against you.
guess what, i will not be having a roast dinner today either just because everybody else is. i decide what i eat and when i eat it, i decide what is worth celabrating today and what is not, and santa does not figure. sorry.

I think we get it that we are all entitled to a personal opinion but you continue to dig. Why not change the 'we' to 'I'? It would be a lot less confrontational. Also why would anyone care what you are having for dinner? Are you saying that YOU are not brainwashed and others are sheeple? Because that's how it comes across. Guess what, disregarding Christmas doesn't make you special in any way. Heck you can even get 'Christmas free' holidays to escape all mention of the dread word. I've done it myself in the past but this year I am having all the bells and whistles - and I'm loving it. It was a choice - just like yours. It is not a lesser choice just a different one.
PS spellcheck is your friend.

reply to post by NuclearPaul


Says the man who believes youtube and Alex Jones are the primary sources of truth in the world, and that Julia Gillard is a part of the Illuminati.

God could be shelved in the same category as the ridiculous dogma you believe in.

reply to post by FlySolo


When I was six I told my mother (who I would only have 3 more years with) that I didn't believe in Santa.

She told me that most Santa's were helpers but she would take me to the real one to prove there was a Santa.

So we went - there is a Santa. I'm 58 and even at 58 I remember how entering this small store, this magical icon literally glowed, he actually had a golden yellow aura. I sat on his lap and he knew my name - he knew I what I wanted and I asked to inspect his beard and hair................snowy white and long and soft.

It was real, his beard and hair were actually his and so soft and pure white.

His eyes were blue and twinkled so bright.

Yes there is a Santa.............I felt his love and his belly shook when he laughed, the deepest laugh.

There is not enough magic or child like wonderment in the world.

Our children now grow up way too fast making them harden of heart way beyond their time.

Let there be at least a time of wonderment, a time of magic, a time of love and joy.

For those that have more than enough, give generously so that some little ones that normally wouldn't have a Santa - experience at least once the wonderment that is the winter holidays.

Originally posted by FlySolo

Originally posted by Battleline

Originally posted by FlySolo

Originally posted by Battleline
reply to post by FlySolo

 

No, by all means tell them the truth(or what YOU preceive as the truth) then show them this fine picture you have and let them cry there eye's out.........................and that will make it all better,Instead of allowing them to have some sort of peace during there childhood knowing that when they grow up they will see the horrors of humanity soon enough.

I truely hope you don't have kids,what a sad person.

You don't want me to have kids based on a controversial thread discussion and because I'm sad "allegedly"

What a cruel person you are and out of touch. I like to encourage FREE thinking. You don't know me, my beliefs, or the size of my heart. I truly hope your kids see past your bitterness to those who have a different opinion than you. Who are you to determine who is fit to have kids off a faceless website? I would make a great dad. Jerk.

"You" posted your opinion or beliefs and your right all i know about you is what you post and it would seem when I have an opinion and you don't like it then i am the bad guy.GREAT SPIN.

And all this is about "free thinking" what a cheep way to back out of your post, this is your post slick don't put it on me.

edit on 24-12-2011 by Battleline because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-12-2011 by Battleline because: (no reason given)

Yes. This is my thread and my opinion whereas I wouldn't volunteer Santa is real. So that makes it open season to suggest I wouldn't be fit as a parent? I didn't start a thread about how to raise kids so you're the one painting yourself as a baseless opinionated bad guy. Not me.

And how is free thinking backing out of my post? I still stand by my OP. Telling your kid Santa is real is not free thinking.

What do you mean , you did not start a thread about how to raise kids, thats what your whole thread is about as pertaining to what a person should do as far as telling there children the truth about something that might make a child happy for a while in a crap world.

Why would someone who has never had children even give a damn about those that do and how they raise there children??.

HAY ! are you the modern day Scrooge slick?No I think you just like to run your mouth trying to convince others about what you think is important all under the guiss of "free thinking".

You know what, I'm done here,Ive been around people like you and your really a none issue.I will apologize for my rudeness and wish you Happy Holidays, there is just to much hate in the world today for me to want to add to it.

It would be better if we eliminated the myth of (insert your mythical all powerful creator invisible being here). At least then we might be able to find a way to live peaceful with each other.

One question: Why do you think Harry Potter is so popular to young and old alike.............even my husband likes the Harry Potter movies?

Why?

There isn't enough "magick" in the world..............I don't mean the satanic frap, but the innocent magic of fairies, Santa, Rudolph, the Easter Bunny.

We're all so sophisticated and educated now.

Maybe that is why so many of us have lost our humanity.

Originally posted by CaptainIraq
I wouldn't consider the Santa myth to be that destructive...do or don't, I don't think it really has that much of an effect. Most kids figure out on their own anyway.

Now the 'god' myth, on the other hand...THAT's something we might want to reconsider telling our children.

Anyway, my thoughts on 'Santa':

[speculate]
The Santa myth will, inevitably, be perpetuated because it's an absolutely brilliant marketing scheme. If your kids think that there's some magical old white dude who flies around in a sled and can give them (theoretically) anything they want, then they're going to have some pretty high expectations for Christmas gifts!

Great for consumerism!

[/speculate]

edit on 25-12-2011 by CaptainIraq because: (no reason given)

I agree with your "speculation" part, although I see it as much more than speculation. But.. I really see no difference between making a kid believe in God and making a kid believe in Santa. They both involve some external authority that is supposed to take care of them.
And I don't agree either that it doesn't have much of an effect. Children are basically downloaders. They imprint all events in their subconscious and that shapes their personality for the rest of their lives, and when they inevitably see that they've been lied to, it's an emotional scar for the rest of their lives, whether they realize it or not.. It's as if people are arguing that children already know the truth about Santa and see it as just a fantasy, and that therefore it won't have an effect on them.. But they see Santa as real as anything else. To put it into perspective, you have to imagine that you suddenly find out that the government has been a lie all along, that it's not there to take care of you, and actually doesn't even exist but is simply an imaginary concept to explain away why the people don't get what they've been requesting. Then MAYBE, you can see, how a child feels when he/she finds out the truth.

Edit: And oh, here's what you're supporting by buying tons of stuff that neither you nor your children need (for the ones that do, so not personally directed at you CaptainIraq):

Originally posted by steveknows

STOP HAVING A GO AT PEOPLE FOR THEIR KIDS BELIEVING IN SANTA!

I have never met a person opposed to Santa in real life yet on ATS they are coming out of the woodwork. What gives?

It's almost enough to make you suspect that there is both a hidden and organised agenda at work.

Originally posted by TheOracle
Let the children dream a little

what next? kill the easter bunny? burn the tooth fairy?

Probably. Apparently the KGB had this sort of stuff worked out decades ago.

It is a means to create confusion and uncertainty and thereby undermine a society from the inside out.

Who are these people so opposed to Santa?

It just doesn't make sense.

The more I think about it, it does seem that, at some fundamental level, it could act to degrade a child's trust in their parents and thus their overall emotional well-being and sense of security.. Sure it's fun, but at what cost?

I know for sure my eight, about to be nine, year old is going to be uber ticked off. He takes things to heart.

Originally posted by kosmicjack
The more I think about it, it does seem that, at some fundamental level, it could act to degrade a child's trust in their parents and thus their overall emotional well-being and sense of security.. Sure it's fun, but at what cost?

None at all?

I don't know anyone who has suffered emotionally or felt a sense of insecurity because their parents pretended there was a Santa Claus.

Why would a person even ponder such a question?

reply to post by ollncasino


Well, apparently 20 plus pages of people found it fascinating enough to wonder about. LoL!

Seriously, as children we absorb all of our experiences - good and bad - and they help to shape us and to form or ethics. How might you imagine that one of the wonders of childhood being a total lie perpetuated by parents might impact a child's psyche, whether they consciously remember it or not?

Just a few days ago, my husband and I looked up a crossword clue (wheat beard - WTH!?) on the google and my kid was appalled and declared us cheaters. Imagine what he'll do when he finds out Santa is a fraud?

Originally posted by kosmicjack
How might you imagine that one of the wonders of childhood being a total lie perpetuated by parents might impact a child's psyche, whether they consciously remember it or not?

I don't have to imagine.

Santa had no negative impact on myself or any of my friends.

By the way, why the melodramatic terminology?

It's Santa we are talking about, not Satanic worship or child abuse.

Lighten up.