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The Santa Myth: Should we perpetuate the lie to children?

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posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 08:46 PM
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Its not about beliefs or even about innocence, of course it isn't about the government controlling anyone, this is s matter of upbringing.

Reality just seems, the child's belief in Santa or other extra ordinaries, are but a metaphor of how willing we are to be deceived in order to remain unmolested.
We teach then, that it is ok to lie and cheat, because its for a good cause, children loose their innocence because of their parents not because of anything else the parent is GOD at the eyes of the toddler until the toddler realizes that mommy and daddy are a bunch of "arse" cleaners.

We idealize until we are allowed, some like to be deceived, some will justify even the devil, and others just want to be left alone in their own little shoe boxes.

Still, merry Christmas everyone! may all your imaginary wishes come true!, mine will, believing in the magic of coca cola.






posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 09:01 PM
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I maintain to this day that I saw Santa Clause in my home when I was a child. The site of him is still so vivid in my memories of that night 40 years ago that I refuse to believe him to be just a myth. Maybe it was a benevolent spirit, or a vision, or really him. I can't really say for sure.

But to me, he's real and I have taught my son that even when he gets older and the "Santa presents" stop coming, Santa is still visiting kids that need to believe in him for whatever reason.

You mean old Grinch.


/TOA



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 09:06 PM
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I've found this is a surprisingly emotive subject and after researching on the internet and sounding out friends, family, and colleagues, I've come to the conclusion that EVERYONE knows it's basically wrong to lie to their kids about Santa, but we do it because of social conditioning.

I've also discovered that when pressed on the subject, most parents get uncomfortable and even angry. Their usual reasoning is "There's no harm in letting them believe in a little magic". A friend of mine said this, and I countered "So what if I told my kids that Harry Potter was real? What if I told them that there really was a magical school called Hogwarts? That there really was such things as wizards and witches and dragons? Would that be okay?
He said no, of course that would be stupid because all the other kids would laugh at him.

And there's the answer. We lie to our kids because we're socially-conditioned to. We teach our kids that it's wrong to lie, and then tell them the biggest lie of all, about a magical fat guy who brings presents. It stinks but there you have it.



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 09:13 PM
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reply to post by The Old American
 


But why?
why the excuses or the "i refuse to believe otherwise", where is the rationality of that?

The universe is "magical" by nature itself, Fibonacci sequence, chaos theory, electromagnetic anomalies, time space warping, dimensions, etc etc etc, the list goes on and on, but Santa? I mean please all bias aside, what is the point? selling toys? giving fat bearded guys jobs on this time of the year? propagating the double standards of a false life?
If you want your children innocent don't let them near TV or the interwebs, at all, what Xmas is today has a lot to do with spending and overindulging than anything else.



It seems to me Pavlov wasn't so lost after all...



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 09:15 PM
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reply to post by Hawkwind.
 


It was meant as a joke, I love my Mum and Dad and they have given me great Christmas'. I still live with them now. They've supported me all my life (i'm 19),I appreciate everything they've given me and are still giving. For the record the idea of Santa is great- no harm in adding some wonder/mystery into Christmas for kids.



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 09:24 PM
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Perpetuating the lie of santa claus is 100% better than perpetuating a lie your society calls reality and is in essence TRUE mental illness

I am what i do
I am what i do not do
I am my education
I am my accomplishments
I am what others think of me
I am what i do for work
I am my earning potential and how much i make
I am what i do for others
I am what i do not do for others

Meanwhile hiding behind a false facade and saying
You are how you treat others and all that yadda yadda foo foo false nobility good person stuff. Good to others you deem should be treated good and punish the mean hateful ones you deem unworthy.

Face it....everyone of ya are liars just like me and if we all really got what we deserved we would all be dead.

edit on 23-12-2011 by superluminal11 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 09:29 PM
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reply to post by superluminal11
 


o0o0ooh, and I thought I was being controversial....
edit on 23-12-2011 by FlySolo because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 10:28 PM
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No Santa here. Gifts in our family are a reflection of love. And a strange person conditionally giving gifts doesn't represent what this holiday is about in my eyes. Imagination is all good and well as long as it has a positive moral basis. There are plenty of other opportunities for fostering positive magic and imagination.



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 10:36 PM
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reply to post by The Old American
 
I'm 48. My folks to this day when they send presents, make sure that I still have one or two addressed "From Santa".

Santa is as real as the Christmas spirit, the Spirit of Giving.

Santa is real.




posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 10:42 PM
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Another political correctness idea gone out of control.

Stop questioning if we're ready to give up on past ideals, and rather accept the ones we have given up as they come along naturally.

All this concern that we're "harming" our children by indulging their fantastical imaginations is ridiculous. If your concern is about third-world countries, then do something personally about them. I don't see how our nation's children are related at all, to another country's poor circumstances.

Bringing our country down to the harsh reality of another country is pointless. Rather you should be focusing on ways to bring that country UP to our standard of living.



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 11:04 PM
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Originally posted by superluminal11
Perpetuating the lie of santa claus is 100% better than perpetuating a lie your society calls reality and is in essence TRUE mental illness

I think teaching the unwilling suspension of disbelief makes alternate reality an easier suit to put on. Reality is stark. People want and need to escape. The danger is making the escape real to one's self. Living without a grasp of reality is not only dangerous, it is easily challenged by reality. This causes frustration, anger, and a further withdrawal. This is no way for a successful society to behave.



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 11:05 PM
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Originally posted by DarknessMatters
The belief in a Santa Clause by children should be encouraged. They're children. Let them stay innocent as long as possible.
This whole "War on Christmas" thing is ridiculous at best.
I completely disagree with this. A child's innocence is also based on them telling the truth. They will give you their opinion flat out. By lying to them, you are actually violating that innocence. You talk about letting them stay innocent, but what about when the child finds out the truth? You seriously think that has no emotional or psychological consequences at all?

And still, you have to see this action for what it is instead of trying to hide it within fancy talks. It is lying to your child, raising it to believe that it needs authority and materialistic goods to be happy.



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 11:09 PM
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I have always felt that this is a personal decision each parent must make. With the exception of cases where a child is already overcompensating for something else through the use of fantasy and imaginary friends to an unhealthy degree, I don't think the revelation that Santa isn't real is particularly harmful in and of itself personally. But with that said, I can completely respect and relate to the desire not to lie to one's children. So I think it's something each individual family must carefully consider before making up their own minds.

Keep in mind that children are going to believe in fanciful, imaginary things regardless of whether they are told about Santa or not. If not Santa, then faeries. If not faeries, then imaginary friends. If not that, then something else. If the goal is to protect them from disillusionment, that simply isn't going to happen. Children are going to grow up, and accordingly (and naturally,) they are going to experience painful disappointments and disillusionments. If the goal is to make them face reality and not abide such fanciful unreality, well... that's not going to happen either. No matter how realistic or grounded your child's world view, they are children. They are going to have misconceptions, hold false beliefs, and reach erroneous conclusions about reality that they will have to amend as they grow up.

So, I personally don't see any harm in letting children experience some magic and imagination before they're too old to do so anymore. But as I said, I feel it's up to each individual parent.



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 11:12 PM
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reply to post by AceWombat04
 

There is a difference between letting their own imagination wander, and imposing false beliefs.

For example, I can let my mind wander about a spaghetti or rice or soup monster or whatever, and that's very different from being raised a Catholic or Jehova's Witness or whatever.

Edit: This is not a snipe at any religion. It's just to make a point.
edit on 23-12-2011 by vasaga because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 11:14 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


Word!

Santa is absolutely very real!



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 11:17 PM
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The fable of Santa actually undermines the most cherished aspect of the holidays. Gift-giving. You gift to someone because you love them, to try and pass along happiness. I give this to you, taken from what I've earned, because I consider you a good friend or family member. It's what they call the joy of the holiday season, remember that?


Now we debt-charge loads of gifts and all the good stuff is from that veiled grump in the mall. It's kind of creepy. Plus you're supposed to leave 'bait' for him, to coax him into climbing down your chimney or breaking into your house. Like a nameless god from the tales of Robert E. Howard. A creature of the night, the night of all nights, that astral projects into all our homes to bargain our souls for cheap trinkets. Then he goes back to his ice-fortress, where no human life exists at all.


Well, it's better than some fables. I think in Austria, there are two "Santas", a good one and a devilish one that will come kidnap you and eat you (or something) if you're bad. His name is Krampus, and he looks like a demonic Yeti.



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 11:21 PM
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Originally posted by vasaga

Originally posted by DarknessMatters
The belief in a Santa Clause by children should be encouraged. They're children. Let them stay innocent as long as possible.
This whole "War on Christmas" thing is ridiculous at best.
I completely disagree with this. A child's innocence is also based on them telling the truth. They will give you their opinion flat out. By lying to them, you are actually violating that innocence. You talk about letting them stay innocent, but what about when the child finds out the truth? You seriously think that has no emotional or psychological consequences at all?

And still, you have to see this action for what it is instead of trying to hide it within fancy talks. It is lying to your child, raising it to believe that it needs authority and materialistic goods to be happy.

You're welcome to disagree with my or any one else's opinion on this matter. But that just doesn't change the fact that it's the PARENT'S choice. No one, including you, the government, school's or anyone else; should make decision's like this on behalf of other parent's. And opinions are just that, Opinions. And we're all entitled to form and defend them.

Merry Christmas. I hope Santa leaves you and yours a wonderful stack of brightly wrapped gift's.



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 11:22 PM
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reply to post by vasaga
 
My son is 8. He's at that stage now where belief is waivering. So instead of just calling Santa a "jolly old elf" my wife and I are redefining Santa as "The Spirit of Giving". So that the idea of Santa, the concept of Santa can live on happily towards adulthood.
Santa is very much a real entity in our house. And not just during December.

*Merry Christmas*




posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 11:32 PM
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Santa is real.

Not once, when I was a child, did I doubt that. Though I don't think I ever really thought the Jolly Old Elf was actually a person, but I knew, as I know now, he represents something special.

Special in that he represents, or should anyway, a spirit of giving without a requirement of getting in return. Something that is lacking all too often in society today...

Today, while I was doing some Christmas wandering around, I took some moments to marvel at how different people are for the couple of days prior to Christmas...

Ordinarily, they might not talk to some total stranger while waiting for the light to change to "walk", yet total strangers today, and tomorrow, were busily yakking away with each other. ...and when they parted? "Merry Christmas".

The Santa spirit. All too lacking in our everyday lives. ...and so many of you, seems to me, want to remove that from this time of the year...when in reality, shouldn't you foster it?

I don't know when I first came to the conclusion that Santa wasn't really a right jolly old elf. Am I really the better for that realization? Yet another lost innocence to go along with all the others...and maybe not the least of them. Childlike wonder at the mystery.

Christmas just doesn't seem complete without a gift from Santa under the tree.

To agree with other members... Thanks Mom and Dad.



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 11:34 PM
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reply to post by vasaga
 


I disagree, personally. No matter how open-ended and secular the raising and instruction of a child, belief is still "imposed." Whether you tell your child Santa exists or not, whether you're religious or not (I'm not personally and wouldn't tell my child about Santa, but that's beside the point,) parents cannot entirely avoid imposing beliefs on their child. Even passively.

No matter what, your child will pattern its concepts of morality and behavior on the parent and the other adults around it (and when it's older, the other children around it.) The alternative would be to never teach them anything and let them figure it all out for themselves. While I do think children should be taught to question and to be skeptical, I don't think it's practical to just give them that much latitude personally.

And unless we do, we're always imposing beliefs on them, whether they're religious or not. If we want to be absolutely objective and free of bias, then the belief in Santa is no more arcane or deceitful than concepts of altruism and charity. After all, the world doesn't really work that way in practice. We may mean well, but we're still deceiving our children when we tell them that they should just be themselves and expect people to love them for who they are, that generosity and charity are prized over self-interest, and other moral lessons.

Don't get me wrong, I believe in those things myself, difficult though they may make my life in a society which rejects such precepts. But I'd be lying to a child if I told them the rest of the world works that way.

I respect your opinion. This is just my own point of view. As I said, it's up to each individual parent and family to decide for themselves, by their own standards. It's not my or anyone else's place to tell them how to raise their children in my view.
edit on 12/23/2011 by AceWombat04 because: Typo



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