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The Santa Myth: Should we perpetuate the lie to children?

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posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 01:47 PM
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reply to post by FlySolo
 


St Nicholas was a very real person who devoted his life to helping the poor and needy.

The true story of Santa Claus begins with Nicholas, who was born during the third century in the village of Patara. At the time the area was Greek and is now on the southern coast of Turkey. His wealthy parents, who raised him to be a devout Christian, died in an epidemic while Nicholas was still young. Obeying Jesus' words to "sell what you own and give the money to the poor," Nicholas used his whole inheritance to assist the needy, the sick, and the suffering.

While Christmas is supposed to be about the birth of Christ and why on the day we give gifts as tribute, it is also the time of Yule festivities. It does not have to be about commercialism, it can be a time of family and friends, a time of giving and caring for others and a time to teach your children the true meaning of Christmas. I simply told the children that St Nicholas was a real person and about the wonderful work he did in the name of Jesus who we dedicate to celebrating the birth of at Christmas time. I have explained to the children the truth about the pagan festivals of Winter Solstice and how the Romans tied the birth of Jesus in around that time to aide in the conversion of the extremely resistant pagans.

You see, Christmas has enough tradition and history to be fascinating in it's own right without having to make up more. Cheers

www.stnicholascenter.org...




posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 01:48 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 





Dictionary defination of half truth = statement that mingles truth with falsehood,

DELIBERATELY INTENDED to DECEIVE



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by MollyStewart
 


No it doesn't. Christianity stole it and gave it to someone else.



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 01:50 PM
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reply to post by Starwise
 


You are right that is a fabulous post! I fell into the trap but not the 'santa is real thing' my girls know that we save up for christmas and they know that the real 'magic' in the world is far more wondrous than these stories which are just there to remind people to be nice, at least it used to.

I have never had to lie to my children about anything, ever. I don't really get why people think they should.

We even discuss death and because of this, none of my children are afraid of it.

The origins of the santa story is a lovely story, what's wrong with telling them about these things instead of telling them that the mutated story is the truth?

If you present children with possibilities, telling them that some people believe this or that, they can use their imagination and work out what seems true to them. This is how I raise my children. I only tell them something is true when I know it to be a fact, if it's possible I say 'hey, it's possible what do you think?'
This does not apply to santa, I prefer to tell the story as it originally appeared.

Namaste

ed Bravo Molly! Star for you. Also Benevolent Heretic, I am totally in agreement with you friend! Keep up the good work guys.

edit on 23-12-2011 by Threegirls because: Just read Mollystewart's post



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 01:50 PM
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It's not lying. it's pretending or role playing depending on how you look at it.

If you have kids and see the joy 'Santa' can bring on Xmas morning you'll play the game too!
edit on 23-12-2011 by ATSCurious because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 01:50 PM
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reply to post by Starwise
 


I agree. I don't see a thing wrong with having a "Santa story" that I would tell my kids, complete with flying reindeer, magical elves and Santa's toy shop, as long as I told it, not as fact, but as a fairy tale or story, the same as all the others. The magic of the season need not suffer. I'm just advocating making a tiny distinction between truth and reality so that the child never has to think, "my mom lied to me..." I see it as my responsibility to be the ONE person they can come to for the truth. I may not give them the unabashed and complete truth about the entire subject, but what I tell them will be true.
edit on 12/23/2011 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 01:51 PM
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Wait a minute...Santa isn't real? Someone's got some 'splainin to do. I don't have a problem with Christmas, even though I am not really religious, and I think people who complain about the word should just ignore it and get a life. On the main issue, Santa, I think we should take a look at the data before coming to a conclusion.

What I mean is as follows: I know for a fact that children can develop complexes that will cause them major problems later in life from seemingly trivial issues. Lying to kids, although it seems harmless, in fact can be detrimental. It depends on the child as to how affected they will be, but as I said, locating some usable data of a similar nature is really what we need before drawing conclusions.

Without the data available, I would say that it very well could be dangerous to perpetuate the myth. Just because so many parents do it, and have been doing it for so long, does NOT mean that it is okay. Just because society accepts something as "normal" doesn't make it the correct thing to do. In the ME they bury women up to their necks and stone them to death, a culturally accepted practice...I don't even have to say any more about that, as you probably get my point.
edit on 12/23/11 by JiggyPotamus because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by DarknessMatters
The belief in a Santa Clause by children should be encouraged. They're children. Let them stay innocent as long as possible.
This whole "War on Christmas" thing is ridiculous at best.


But what if what is at stake is one's soul? Is this childish innocence worth one's soul?

Kids worship santa, I'm sure many of you have seen this as well. Christmas has lost almost all meaning, no longer is it about giving and helping others. It's now about getting stuff like presents, and kids are brainwashed into this new belief and in doing so they could be breaking their covenant with the Almighty, as is written in almost every religious text. Of course if you do not believe in the Almighty then that's a different story, but for those that do, is the loss of one's soul really worth this little white lie?

There is much we do not know about in this world.

What is your soul worth to you?



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 01:53 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 




You know, today I took my kids to see Santa at a local grotto. He looked real, he spoke real and he gave them a gift each and had extensive knowledge of various nerf gun models (he really did
), he was a toy expert as Santa should be. My kids were delighted, why would you want take that away from them? Your views on whether kids should be lied to or not are extreme, there's no balance. You believe your parents made a mistake letting you believe Santa was real, I can only think that you must have been so heartbroken when you found out he's a myth that you don't want it happening to your own kids, come on now, BH, own up, did finding out Santa was blag scar you?



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 01:53 PM
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I spent my childhood wondering why Santa always gave better presents to children with rich parents...



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 01:56 PM
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Originally posted by tom171
I spent my childhood wondering why Santa always gave better presents to children with rich parents...


Thank you.

This sums up why I dislike the whole santa myth.

Saint Nick gave the same treats to everyone, in real life even.



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 01:58 PM
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reply to post by FlySolo
 


OP.

Santa comes from Germany.
There are several men who represent Santa in Germany.
It's not so cut-and-dry as it is here, it's based in deep rooted traditions, religions, and superstitions...
One of their "Santas" gives gifts to all the girls and boys...
While another "Santa" known as "Schwarz Nicolaus" or "Black Nickolas" sneaks into the houses of naughty children and puts broken glass and nails in their shoes.

I think using the term "lie" is a bit harsh in this case..

I mean, you tell kids spooky stories around campfires as if they're true - and I don't think that ever damaged anybody in the long run.. Nor do we worry about lying to our kids about the evil 10-foot-tall forest monsters.

Besides, kids nowadays can just google whether or not he's real.



Edit: There are more than 2 Santas in Germany, too. Another one is an archangel.
edit on 23-12-2011 by thegagefather because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-12-2011 by thegagefather because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 02:00 PM
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The image or story of Santa or Saint Nic ain't the issue, if stories weren't fun and magical what'd be the point in them?

It's how it's used and for what purpose...people are actually blind, and it's a shame because it means it will continue for the fore-seeable future.

Awakening is a word that's banded about a lot on this site...

Buy your kids gifts, sure...it's nice to see their faces and the excitement it all brings and there ain't no harm in spoiling them now and then. But it is out of control and we all know it, stop lying to yourselves, kids are becoming less and less selfless...I know people who spends thousands, no exaggeration...THOUSANDS of pounds, they get into debt, the child may suffer in the long run because mum and dad are still paying for theit flatscreen tv, laptop, phone, etc.

Not all kids, I'm not here to badmouth anyone's offspring, I'm sure there are many kids out there who are creative and caring enough to actually sit and think...ok I'm going to make a gift for mummy and daddy.

Many kids think these days seem to inherantly think that a gift is something you buy someone...and the more expensive the better the gift.



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 02:00 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


I was using the dictionary definition of a half-truth, which is either to omit facts with the intention to deceive, or a partially true statement. Telling a child that the violence depicted in a movie isn't real and doesn't happen when that response is given in answer to "Can that really happen?" and said violence can and does happen is a half-truth.Telling a cop that you've had two beers and failing to mention the three mixed drinks you also had is a half-truth. Telling a child that Santa brings presents but failing to mention that you are in fact Santa is a half-truth. All of those are half truth and half lies, the lie part is in failing to mention relevant facts.
edit on 12/23/2011 by Jenna because: Finished an unfinished thought.



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 02:00 PM
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reply to post by eletheia
 


If a half-truth means it's a half-lie, then I do not advocate it. If it contains a lie, it's a lie. Jenna used the term half-truth, suggesting that I advocated it. Now that I know the definition, I can say that I do not.
I advocate telling the child the truth, while not overloading them with more information than they can process or are emotionally ready to deal with.

Telling a child the Santa Myth (as reality and not a pretend story) is lying to the child, IMO. I think it's a mistake parents make. I would not make the same mistake.


And I have yet to see a situation where you HAVE to lie to your child.



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by FlySolo
 


I think that in the beginning Christmas was about getting the family together and just having a good time. But now it's become this game that we all play, where we all have to get each other presents, because we show love through material things now, that's the only way we know how, and santa clause comes and gives all the nice people whatever they want. The problem is, is that this creates and supports the entitlement mentality all kids seem to have nowadays, along with many adults. The whole santa clause thing just seems really odd. I would say that as soon as they're asking questions then they're ready to know. One might think that this may make them very upset, but if this is the case then the idea shouldn't have been presented in the first place



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 02:04 PM
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I seriously can't believe what I'm reading. I mean, I get the whole "Blabla, retain their innocence, life is harsh" thing.

But tell me, what is so "harsh and cruel" about your parents giving you presents because they love you, instead of an old man whose only relationship to you is that he judges you each year and rewards you if you've been a good kid?

How is the notion that your parents are the ones giving you presents a "harsh reality"?
edit on 23-12-2011 by Whipfather because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 02:04 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


You never have to lie to anyone, let alone a child. You could tell nothing but the complete truth at all times to everyone, but no one does. No one can honestly say they never lie to anyone about anything. Telling a child a half-truth about something and telling them only the bits they can handle is the same thing. You're arguing against the very thing you're advocating.



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by Hawkwind.
My kids were delighted, why would you want take that away from them?


I wouldn't. I wouldn't present it as truth. Ever. Am I not being clear about something here???



come on now, BH, own up, did finding out Santa was blag scar you?


Finding out that my mom and dad lied to me did make a pretty serious impression on me. It wasn't about Santa, it was about trust. It was the first of many disillusions about life that I was to learn... I remember realizing that I couldn't trust my parents anymore to tell me the truth. It was scary... If I can prevent my kid from going through that, I will. If I can be a better parent than my parents were, and my kids trust me more than I trusted mine... yeah, I'm going to go for that.



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by tom171
I spent my childhood wondering why Santa always gave better presents to children with rich parents...



Surely it would have been better to have appreciated what you did get instead of being envious or other kids. My parents were so broke in my childhood that my Dad used to have to buy second hand toys and spruce them up, not that I knew at the time, but I still loved every Christmas I had. I still remember the insomnia on Christmas eve, oh it was like torture waiting for Christmas morning, I do remember my Mum or Dad creeping into the bedroom late at night hanging the Christmas stocking on the bed with me pretending to be asleep.



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