The Christmas Hoax: Jesus is NOT the "Reason for the Season"

reply to post by theRhenn

I agreed with everything you said, until:

yet, poking and prodding at someone elses beliefs are never "in good spirit" so to speak.

What good is a belief, or a practice, or an idea if you never question it? I see no harm in supplemental explorations. Ideally, everyone will come out with further understanding and knowledge, or if nothing else, an interesting fact.

Originally posted by wildtimes

Originally posted by bestintentions
reply to post by wildtimes

 

why so jumpy ?

Not jumpy, just aware that some members find these facts offensive. ...

So far, I'm not offended, and from what I've seen here since you started the thread, I didnt catch anyone being so either.

Though... Again, that fine line.

Question: Do you mind other peoples business? Do you find that you are entitled to someone elses problems, happyness, sorrow, gossip, shortfalls, uplifting, fortunes, demises?

I'm guessing the answer is No.

Why would anyone, ANYONE do the same with other peoples religions, faiths, holidays, activities, and whatever else? It's kinda like the bus driver telling lil maggie that there IS NO SANTA! Is it his place? Did he raise Maggie? Or is he just an asshole that just likes to poke, prod, and ruin someone elses day because he doesnt believe in it?

I dont believe, should I make that person not believe?
I do believe, should I make that person believe?


It doesnt matter what I am... The only thing that concerns me about the other person is that they not suffering, if so, I'll offer what I can. Otherwise, just simpathizing alone is doing nothing at all for that person. You may be lending an ear, but what you're really doing, is still putting yourself in that person's business. If you offer help, it benifits to a degree. If you dont, then you're basicly wasting that persons time.

So what I'm really saying is....

Why is it anyone elses business?

reply to post by theRhenn

We all realise that pretty much any and every holiday is taken from something else. Christian holidays share many other holidays. Many christian holidays took the place of some holidays.

"We" being...whom? You and yours?
I have come across several ATS members who believe otherwise, and adamantly refute that Christian holidays are taken from elsewhere. Just today, actually, and very recently.

Obviously I have attracted the group who already knows these things. That's fine. What's the point of telling me it's old news that "everyone" knows? They don't. So I brought it up. Again.

Not everyone "realises" these things. Sheesh, guys!

reply to post by theRhenn

Or is he just an asshole that just likes to poke, prod, and ruin someone elses day because he doesnt believe in it?

I dont believe, should I make that person not believe?
I do believe, should I make that person believe?

I didn't realize I was talking to lil Maggie. I thought I was talking to people who are open to learning. And I'm not an asshole. But whatever. I find the history of modern traditions fascinating. Others might, as well....
wow.

I like the thread OP but it doesn't matter how many facts you put up, it will continue to be a fight. The stories and accounts of the bible are nothing but myths to me. Why it turned into such a big ta-doo I will never understand, but this definition of myth-ritual pretty much explains God, Jesus and the stories of the Bible to me. You can change out the word "myth" and put in "religion" and it's dead on. Hmmmm.

According to the myth-ritual theory, the existence of myth is tied to ritual. In its most extreme form, this theory claims that myths arose to explain rituals. People begin performing rituals for some reason that is not related to myth; later, after they have forgotten the original reason for a ritual, they try to account for the ritual by inventing a myth and claiming that the ritual commemorates the events described in that myth.

I really don't know, only death will tell. But I will still have a Merry Christmas with Santa and all the presents!

Christmas ,Easter and halloween came from past civilizations. And december 25th originated from Dionysus. Modern Xmas has nothing to do with the past,jesus nor god. It has to do with a more economic approach. Just like most western holidays. Buy Buy Buy


When it comes to holy scriptures one should not take them seriously or assume they are holy. Chances are they are fake forgery's intended to create movements solely based on faith. Faith is the key ingredient to manipulate mass amounts of people to do certain things.

No one here can be sure of the true dates of holy scriptures,the authenticity of scripture and its true meaning of scripture. So why in the world would one blindly believe in them?


The only thing we can do is enjoy the holidays with the ones you love and with anything else wipe your rear end with. Trust me Its not important. Life is too short to be worrying or praying for something you have no inkling about.

reply to post by lilowl53


Thanks for chiming in!
You're right, it will always be a "fight'.

I intend to spend the day with my family, exchanging a few gifts, and being thankful most of us are together.

reply to post by dilly1


LOL!! completely agree with you.
You know, it's interesting that the "readers" I expected to jump on this thread are nowhere to be found!!

Anyhoo, somehow I've attracted those who are already aware. Thanks, guys. Happy season. Try not to get too stressed out about it....to me, it seems to have become a major money-making scheme.

reply to post by lilowl53


I dont understand the thought process behind thinking one Belief is any more or less valid or silly than the next.

This, everything that is, may all being running on some aliens desk top somewhere, it may all be fake.. AND Thats a VALID scientific theory...

So to say any one view is less silly than the next is ignorant, we know Jack and Squat about the world around us, we don't even understand human thought let alone the physics of the universe around us. We are toddlers taking the first steps into the much wider universe, to rule anything out from the get go is kind of silly, I say keep an open mind and try to do no harm to those around you.

The truely intelligent person understands how little we all really know.

Originally posted by benrl
.... yet Christianity and lesser extent Islam get questioned the most.

Perhaps its due to the amount of violence inherent to these two religions?
Or at least since these are the more dominant religions.......their violent tendencies are always noticed.

(sex abuse, holy wars, jihad, and just in general making the female a less than second class citizen)

reply to post by benrl

The truely intelligent person understands how little we all really know.

Exactly!!

And those who believe they know the everything, and that their truth is THE truth, will hear nothing else as credible, well....
yeah, they're still out there.

Originally posted by TomServo
reply to post by theRhenn

 

I agreed with everything you said, until:

yet, poking and prodding at someone elses beliefs are never "in good spirit" so to speak.

What good is a belief, or a practice, or an idea if you never question it? I see no harm in supplemental explorations. Ideally, everyone will come out with further understanding and knowledge, or if nothing else, an interesting fact.

Dont confuse me.

I mean to say... At someone else. Questioning your beliefs has nothing to do with another. Questioning their own to them due to you your lack of belief, or totaly the other way around, i would think, is selfish.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by theRhenn

 

We all realise that pretty much any and every holiday is taken from something else. Christian holidays share many other holidays. Many christian holidays took the place of some holidays.

"We" being...whom? You and yours?
I have come across several ATS members who believe otherwise, and adamantly refute that Christian holidays are taken from elsewhere. Just today, actually, and very recently.

Obviously I have attracted the group who already knows these things. That's fine. What's the point of telling me it's old news that "everyone" knows? They don't. So I brought it up. Again.

Not everyone "realises" these things. Sheesh, guys!

But.... You're actively telling that person... "Your beliefs are not real... you got them from other pagan practices".

What ever happen to just... Merry Christmas... ? ...sheesh guys

In truth... That persons beliefs are every bit as real. That person did not practice a pagan belief in this... They're practicing what they know.. Christmas. Not paganism. Let them have their dreams, hopes and lives.. Just as we let you have yours.


Why not focus on Christmas hunger? Children without Gifts? Why always "Christmas is a pagan lie"?

reply to post by theRhenn

Questioning their own to them due to you your lack of belief, or totaly the other way around, i would think, is selfish.

How is it selfish to provide facts and evidence to counter erroneous thinking?

reply to post by wildtimes


Yes, and some of those people are Scientist, and Atheist, everyone can be dogmatic to their believes, Personally Im a christian, and it works for me. May not work for everyone, and Im okay with that, I don't have to force my truths onto you, all I can do is model the behavior in my life and hope that reflects who I am.

No one should ever use violence to enforce their views on others, Often time Religion is used as the reason for this, make no mistake religion never entered into it, it was human nature and nothing more it was the desire to dominate his fellow man that caused all the strife in history, God was just the excuse they used.

reply to post by benrl


All my family's traditions ard down the drain this year because of my dads latest church's believes!
No Christmas tree, no gifts, ec.
We used to get together as a family, read about the birth from the Bible, sang xmas hyms, pray and give gifts.
I do not follow any religion myself, but it was nice to have that tradition. So from next year, I'll spend xmas at home and only go to my parents house on family day.
It's sad to see how churges/religion influances people.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by theRhenn

 

Or is he just an asshole that just likes to poke, prod, and ruin someone elses day because he doesnt believe in it?

I dont believe, should I make that person not believe?
I do believe, should I make that person believe?

I didn't realize I was talking to lil Maggie. I thought I was talking to people who are open to learning. And I'm not an asshole. But whatever. I find the history of modern traditions fascinating. Others might, as well....
wow.

Dont go all personal. No one was pointing the finger at you. The bus driver was the asshole mentality. It was refrenced as an example.. Something of similarity to what you presented just in a diffrent light.

No need to get defensive, unless of course, YOU believe I am correct.

reply to post by theRhenn

Why not focus on Christmas hunger? Children without Gifts? Why always "Christmas is a pagan lie"?

If you're not interested in learning where your traditions came from, that's fine. Some people might be. Personally, I find hunger and deprived children important -- far more important than "buying" things for people who don't need them.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by dilly1

 

LOL!! completely agree with you.
You know, it's interesting that the "readers" I expected to jump on this thread are nowhere to be found!!

Anyhoo, somehow I've attracted those who are already aware. Thanks, guys. Happy season. Try not to get too stressed out about it....to me, it seems to have become a major money-making scheme.

So you agree that the sole purpose of your thread is to more or less debunk christians... So it WAS a slap in the face..

Hope you have a great umm... nothing... this year.

For the rest, Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all. May you recieve Christmas as you give it. (op)

Originally posted by benrl
reply to post by lilowl53

 

I dont understand the thought process behind thinking one Belief is any more or less valid or silly than the next.

This, everything that is, may all being running on some aliens desk top somewhere, it may all be fake.. AND Thats a VALID scientific theory...

So to say any one view is less silly than the next is ignorant, we know Jack and Squat about the world around us, we don't even understand human thought let alone the physics of the universe around us. We are toddlers taking the first steps into the much wider universe, to rule anything out from the get go is kind of silly, I say keep an open mind and try to do no harm to those around you.

The truely intelligent person understands how little we all really know.

I get what you are saying but at no point did I say that religions were "silly".

My point was that this particular (christian) religion can be compared to that of what we call myths today. Stories to explain why we celebrate or do what we do in the name of God and or Jesus.

Based on your comments in this thread so far arguing with you or trying to explain a point is useless.

Yes, there is so little we know, but there is also so much we do know and can prove.