The Christmas Hoax: Jesus is NOT the "Reason for the Season"

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by gabby2011

 

Why didn't you just say "i eat a little cracker and drink some grape juice/wine"

Ritualistic symbolization is what its called... and makes no difference within the person that takes part...

I believe christ wanted more of his followers then eating crackers and drinking wine...

To each their own though...

You don't have to take part in a ritual to "eat his flesh and drink his blood"

Just so you know...

Theres little difference between this and the rituals of other religions such as wicca..

edit on 23-1-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

I hardly consider you an authority on the transubstantiation.. and it isn't a cracker.. its consecrated wafer as well as wine.

hmmm lemme see.. do I believe the virgin Mary and her apparitions to countless children over many centuries..all saying how important the Eucharist is... and the power it has when received in grace... or.. do I believe you Akragon?

hmmm.. can you understand why I would choose the most blessed Virgin Mary as my source of truth?..sure hope so..because along with her teachings, there were also many documented miracles, that still happen to this day at the places that she has appeared at.

Not difficult to figure out who I will put my trust in..not difficult at all.

Originally posted by vogon42

Originally posted by gabby2011
....... In the church it is called Transubstantiation.

.,......

To everyone else, it is called cannibalism.

How is it your bible some how changes the definition?

Eating flesh is still eating flesh, symbolic or not.

It is not the same as cannibalism.... because it is eating what God offered as atonement for our sins..There is only one Christ.. and God does not ask us to eat the flesh and drink the blood of humans.. but of the divine that came in the human form...so that He could offer his life for atonement...and sanctification.

reply to post by gabby2011

"because it is eating what God offered as atonement"

That's like putting lettuce on a cheeseburger and then calling it a salad.


Call it what you want, but we still see the symbolic cheeseburger.

reply to post by wildtimes

Anyone who refuses to read and educate themselves in this day and age has some sort of block against being made aware. I just don't get it. I don't. I'm not evil in giving you the access to this information, gabby. I have looked into every one of the links and sources you have provided to me. But you won't reciprocate. Why not?

I have looked into some of the links you provided wildtimes.. and they are New Age stuff that I want nothing to do with.
You have not accepted the authenticity of the links I provided for you, so at least give me the same freedom to not accept what you consider to be truth.

I am not afraid of anything wildtimes, accept falling out of the grace of God. I have done that before..and I so don't want to offend the most loving heart ever known to mankind again.

I realize I wouldn't fall from His grace by reading ALL of your links.. but quite frankly time is precious and I would rather spend time praying the rosary and reading text that is from the truth...and doing what Mary asks of us..mostly prayer...fasting and receiving the Eucharist in the best state of grace possible.

Even by answering these posts I feel I am not doing the will of Jesus, and should be more immersed in prayer.

Through prayer, and His mercy and love..and patience , I will find the way to live the life most pleasing to his heart.

Never let your mind think I am afraid of anything you have to offer wildtimes.. . I just know where my sense of truth and guidance comes from.

God bless you, and may the mercy and love of Jesus be with you.

Okay, ladies and gents,
we're straying into school-yard puddles here.

gabby, you have stated clearly, and I'm fairly certain we've all interpreted it correctly, that you prefer to use as resources ONLY the hearsay of children who've seen "visions," and the dogma of the Roman Catholic Church. Your belief in some reports of magical things -- and disbelief of others with just as much credability -- is your business.

You don't understand modern "paganism" at all; and you admit you are not even a biblical scholar. I can see how passionate you are about your Church, and also how tunnel-visioned you are toward it and its leaders, who you also cite as being corrupt.

This thread is meant to discuss and explore the parallels between traditional "Christianity" and the non-Christian faiths. They are too numerous to dispute; and they are quite clear. Since those other faiths predate Christianity, and in fact tell the same stories, they have just as much credence as any post-Jesus writings.

Once a person realizes that the stories and myths occur in almost ALL religions in various forms around the world it is simply silly to claim that ONLY the ones post-Jesus can be true.

How do you address that? How do you explain the Osiris biography, and the Krishna biography (just to use two examples) being almost word for word the biography of Jesus? Please try not to just say "those are lies," there is no debate there -- they clearly are NOT lies, and untold numbers of humans since our known recorded history held them in just as high esteem and beyond question as what you believe.

Basically, you are following a particular cult that mirrors much 'pagan' ritual, in many, many ways. How do you draw the line? If someone told you that the shamans of the Native American people used incense, and fire, and sacred drumming and dances, and made pilgrimages, and summoned apparitions of 'spirits' and 'guides' and told stories about the powers of the Great God, would you say, "Well, there you have it! Different continent, different language, different environment, but they also believe in the divine!" -- or would you say "they are lying savages!", hmmm?

reply to post by gabby2011

I am not afraid of anything wildtimes, accept falling out of the grace of God. I have done that before..and I so don't want to offend the most loving heart ever known to mankind again.

Finally, an answer. You are afraid of falling out of the grace of God.

Because.....you think that if you fall from the grace of God, you will be punished, with pain, rejection, and eternal suffering. You are a parent, gabby.

If your child screws up, do you threaten them with punishment? Pain, rejection, eternal suffering? "If you screw up, I'm going to beat you black and blue, break your bones, burn your skin, starve you, and all the while I will never, ever speak to you one word of kindness again. I'm going to imprison you in the basement. You will never be free."

Or do you say to them, "There is nothing you can do that will cause me to stop loving you, no matter what. It hurts me to see you suffer, and to know that you are enduring trouble, but I will still love you and offer you safe shelter and loving arms."

reply to post by wildtimes

Because.....you think that if you fall from the grace of God, you will be punished, with pain, rejection, and eternal suffering. You are a parent, gabby.

I knew you would take that the wrong way. I am NOT afraid of reading your links for that reason. I do not want to waste time on what I know isn't truth.

As far as being afraid of falling from the grace of God, you are reading into it again. With all the pain rejection BS from God.

The pain would be His , and the rejection ..the rejection that I choose of rejecting Him , and choosing a path that makes Him sad...and yes..if to an extreme amount of sin..angry as well.

I try to answer you wildtimes, and you mock my words by putting your own thoughts and your own ideas into them..

This is why I will not answer any more of your questions.. shame on you for putting your thoughts and words into what I say.. shame on you for trying to project what you think into what I say.

If your child screws up, do you threaten them with punishment? Pain, rejection, eternal suffering? "If you screw up, I'm going to beat you black and blue, break your bones, burn your skin, starve you, and all the while I will never, ever speak to you one word of kindness again. I'm going to imprison you in the basement. You will never be free."

see..more exaggeration and melodrama..thats all you seem to give wildtimes.. I do not want to make my Lord sad by falling away from His grace..what don't you get about that?

It seems you have the ideas of all the melodrama above...what is wrong with you? Honestly I think you have much to much of the drama queen thing going on wildtimes.. as evident by your accusations that I have hurled you against a wall, punched you in the gut, and damned you to hell in other posts of mine. None of which is true.

You have the issues here wildtimes.. of projecting your own problems onto me. You take my words and twist them to mean what you want them to mean, and you do the same with the words of Christ.

I feel sorry for your melodramatic tendencies , and how you see truth.. you are so way off , it isn't even funny.

My children always know I will love them.. but I realize they are Gods children more than they are mine.. It was His hand that made them grow in my womb, and His love in me that loved them growing up.
That being said .. if I see my children deliberately harming someone , or thinking it is ok to scam I will let them know in no uncertain terms that I am not pleased with their actions.. because I love them.

Of course if I see them suffer I am there, but I am not afraid of God seeing me suffer.. .. I am afraid of not being sensitive to what God wants of me, and thinking of myself, therefore losing His grace.

I am not the type of mother who will coddle my child if they are being selfish , and cruel...and if you think God is the type of God who coddles His children when they do things displeasing to Him, you are in for a rude awakening.

He is loving, and is merciful, and is EXTREMELY patient with us.... But His love is very JUST.

Thank you for showing me that there is no point to trying to answer a question honestly with you, because you just take my words ...rip them to shreds... and create your own false answers with them.

How sad..

reply to post by wildtimes

You don't understand modern "paganism" at all; and you admit you are not even a biblical scholar. I can see how passionate you are about your Church, and also how tunnel-visioned you are toward it and its leaders, who you also cite as being corrupt.

I said SOME are corrupt.. not all.. just as in the times of Christ and Judaism.

As far as the rest of it.. I won't answer to you anymore because I know you will twist my words.

I will let what I believe to be valid teachers teach me, and I believe the catholic church has much truth and grace within their sacraments, even if many of the followers sin.

Time will tell on who has more truth wildtimes.. I am not worried, nor am I afraid...though I do believe there will be very very troubling time ahead for the faithful and the unfaithful. But the prize at the end of the race is what the faithful should keep their eyes and hearts locked on.

You go your way wildtimes, and I will go my way.. and the living God will determine who comes to Him through the grace and mercy of the cross...and what apparitions are of His Holy Spirit , and which ones are not.

Its all in the hands of the living God wildtimes.. not ours.. so let us both have faith that His will ..will be done.. and we ALL will clearly see what truth is someday.

Originally posted by gabby2011

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by gabby2011

 

Why didn't you just say "i eat a little cracker and drink some grape juice/wine"

Ritualistic symbolization is what its called... and makes no difference within the person that takes part...

I believe christ wanted more of his followers then eating crackers and drinking wine...

To each their own though...

You don't have to take part in a ritual to "eat his flesh and drink his blood"

Just so you know...

Theres little difference between this and the rituals of other religions such as wicca..

edit on 23-1-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

I hardly consider you an authority on the transubstantiation.. and it isn't a cracker.. its consecrated wafer as well as wine.

hmmm lemme see.. do I believe the virgin Mary and her apparitions to countless children over many centuries..all saying how important the Eucharist is... and the power it has when received in grace... or.. do I believe you Akragon?

hmmm.. can you understand why I would choose the most blessed Virgin Mary as my source of truth?..sure hope so..because along with her teachings, there were also many documented miracles, that still happen to this day at the places that she has appeared at.

Not difficult to figure out who I will put my trust in..not difficult at all.

edit on 24-1-2012 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)

When did i ask you to believe what i say?

Im just another poster on our forum... basically no one to you

Believe whatever you like...

I am wondering what the little cracker/wafer tastes like though

reply to post by gabby2011

You go your way wildtimes, and I will go my way.. and the living God will determine who comes to Him through the grace and mercy of the cross...and what apparitions are of His Holy Spirit , and which ones are not.

Its all in the hands of the living God wildtimes.. not ours.. so let us both have faith that His will ..will be done.. and we ALL will clearly see what truth is someday.

Fair enough!
Just do me one more small mercy, gabby, and set aside your illusions of what I am, who I am, and what my intentions are. They are false.

Best of all things to you,
wildtimes

reply to post by Akragon

I am wondering what the little cracker/wafer tastes like though

Cardboard.

EDIT (in case you've never tasted cardboard): Okay, a rice cake. The kind that have no flavor; not Rice Krispies Treats.
At least, that's what the wafers we took in Communion tasted like. But I was brought up Episcopal. The wine was fairly dry, and mellow.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Akragon

 

I am wondering what the little cracker/wafer tastes like though

Cardboard.

lol oh really?

I've had the wine, you can get it at the liquor store...

its kinda nasty... thick and sweet as hell

reply to post by Akragon

its kinda nasty... thick and sweet as hell

Well, it's a concentrate.
Ya know, "sangria"....sangre....blood....
They seriously water it down for mass. With holy water, of course.
And we all drank from the same cup; the priest would go down the row of us kneeling to receive a sip, then wipe off the edge of the cup (a beauteous golden chalice) with a hankie (the same one they used for the entire congregation) and go to the next person. Never saw them swap hankies or fold it up, but they might have. That ritual may have been changed, too. I don't know.