1,100-year-old Mayan ruins found in North Georgia

Originally posted by ga-`tv-gi
Along with the Etowah mounds they are 100's of mounds in Georgia I live with in 3 miles of one of the Cherokee mounds that has never been excavated. It sits on the banks of long swamp creek in the Nelson / Ball ground area on private land.

There are thousands of native American mounds that haven't been excavated, many thousands that have been looted and probably a large number that have never been found or recognized.

reply to post by Chamberf=6
I lived within site of Cahokia Mounds for most of my life and visited the site and museum often, it's a very interesting place. They have found more and more mounds going farther away from the original mounds in State Park in the past years. I now live in NC and have traveled to Georgia to see the Georgia Guidestones for myself. Now I guess I'll be making a trip to see the mound, if access is possible. S&F for the info...

Originally posted by Hanslune
No such colonies, settlements by Mayan traders, etc however were found.....The Maya remain to this day in the general region of their classical civilization

Is it not accepted, though, that moundbuilding...from Florida's Creek to Hopewell/Adena to Ontario's Serpent Mound are expressions of a cultural transfer from Central America? Not to mention the Mesoamerican food complex.
Not to say there were Mayans in Georgia by any means, but certainly that their influence was far ranging.

And I always kinda wondered if the Iroquois came out of the Mississippi Valley, but that's another story.

Ummm . . . Debunked!

I am honestly surprised that this thread is still going. However, I must say: the idea that the Mayan civilization became the Mississippian civilizations is a pretty intriguing one. Might the mounds be just a memory of the great pyramids of Mexico?

Whether or not the scientists believe it or not, it still makes a good conspiracy!

Just my two cents,
Seraph

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by Hanslune
No such colonies, settlements by Mayan traders, etc however were found.....The Maya remain to this day in the general region of their classical civilization

Is it not accepted, though, that moundbuilding...from Florida's Creek to Hopewell/Adena to Ontario's Serpent Mound are expressions of a cultural transfer from Central America? Not to mention the Mesoamerican food complex.

Scholars did examine this, but it was found that the cultures weren't that similar. In addition, it requires them (after having made the trip down to Central/South America) to migrate north quite a long way... and leave no trace... and lose their language completely and their culture (deities and ceremonies) along with their methods of making clothing.

Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Is it not accepted, though, that moundbuilding...from Florida's Creek to Hopewell/Adena to Ontario's Serpent Mound are expressions of a cultural transfer from Central America? Not to mention the Mesoamerican food complex.

Scholars did examine this, but it was found that the cultures weren't that similar. In addition, it requires them (after having made the trip down to Central/South America) to migrate north quite a long way... and leave no trace... and lose their language completely and their culture (deities and ceremonies) along with their methods of making clothing.

I'm thinking more of a transfer of culture and knowledge...maize did come from Central America...than a migration of peoples. The jury is still out on the Mississippian roots of our Serpent Mound, and the corn, beans and squash agricultural complex traveled north along with the complex societies. You figure that fluorescence occurred totally independent of any mesoamerican influence?

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
I'm thinking more of a transfer of culture and knowledge...maize did come from Central America...than a migration of peoples. The jury is still out on the Mississippian roots of our Serpent Mound, and the corn, beans and squash agricultural complex traveled north along with the complex societies. You figure that fluorescence occurred totally independent of any mesoamerican influence?

Remember that the Northern Native Americans (Iroquois, etc) were actually quite sophisticated. They tend to be neglected in considering the cultural evolution of the southern Native Americans -- as do the Alaskan and Canadian tribes. They had a decent amount of technology (no stoneworking, though) and they had frequent trade with the south. Corn moved slowly through the trade networks since its early domestication (around 10,000 BC) and doesn't actually get planted by the Iroquois and other groups in that area until around 500 AD. While this is the height of the Mayan civilization, there's no evidence that their farming methods, etc, actually came into the southern United States.

This was, however, a viable theory at one time. Further research (more sites discovered) showed that the culture had no appreciable influence from the Mayans or the Puebloans or much of the Southwest.

When people migrate, they bring their culture (tribal patterns, tribal techniques for pottery and stonework and house design and musical instruments and foods and deities) with them. If it's the elites who are moving, they bring all that and warriors and when they get to the new area, they INSIST on having things the same way they were at home. So, for example, we don't see Tlaloc or his equivalent in the Mississipian culture, nor do we see Mayan villages with large earthwork mounds in the center. They were great road builders as well, so we'd expect to see roads and stonework if any appreciable number of them showed up in the Mississippi area. There's lots of rocks in Texas (where part of the Caddo/mound builder culture is) and lots in Arkansas and other areas. The mound that this report cites, in fact, is in an area with lots of rocks.

Compare this area to an area where it's known the Mayan elite DID flee to -- Maccu Picchu. THAT is a Mayan exodus site. The Missippian mounds look nothing like that city and the emblems and symbols and ceremonies aren't really similar.

I dont get this, Taos Pueblo is older than this reported finding and we have tons of info on them, but the mystery surrounding this being a lost Mayan civilization is pretty cool, if it pans out, what happened to them or the history of the time they arrived in the area and to where they went is going to be an exciting journey to unravel.

Even oral transmission was huge of this type of exodus and I have never heard of Mayans in Georgia or North America for that matter other than some of their influences through the southwest.

Hopefully we can excavate and find much more information within the mounds themselves.

I am usually not for desecration of ancient burial grounds but there are far too many questions to be answered in this one.

This is potentially so exciting.

reply to post by rogerstigers


Mayan glyphs have now been found on pottery in Georgia and Florida:
lostworlds.org...

More Mayan words have been found in the languages of Georgia's Indians:
lostworlds.org...

Mayan gold-mining operations have been found in the Georgia mountains:
lostworlds.org...

Thus the evidence is building that the ancient Maya were in Georgia.

Originally posted by LostWorldsORG
reply to post by rogerstigers

 

Mayan glyphs have now been found on pottery in Georgia and Florida:
lostworlds.org...

More Mayan words have been found in the languages of Georgia's Indians:
lostworlds.org...

Mayan gold-mining operations have been found in the Georgia mountains:
lostworlds.org...

Thus the evidence is building that the ancient Maya were in Georgia.

Any Maya pottery, habitations or other artifacts associated with them found in excavations in SE USA? Any Hitchiti artifacts in the Yucatan or Meso-America?

reply to post by Hanslune

Any Maya pottery, habitations or other artifacts associated with them found in excavations in SE USA? Any Hitchiti artifacts in the Yucatan or Meso-America?

Yes, a structure with its door in the corner of the building was excavated at Etowah Mounds. This was an architectural tradition of the Chontal Maya. There are even murals at Chichen Itza showing this house type. I once found a photo on Flikr of this type of house still being constructed in the Chontalpa region of Mexico but the photo has since been removed. I wrote about this house type and mural at the following link (you'll have to scroll down the page to get to that bit of info):

Were the Maya mining gold in Georgia?

And are there Hitchiti artifacts in Mexico? That's a strange question considering the evidence suggests the Hitchiti are the Itza Maya....thus, yes, there are lots of Itza Maya sites with artifacts in Mexico. Hitchiti is likely an anglicized pronunciation of Itsa-ti (which means Itsa People in Hitchiti).

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
So, for example, we don't see Tlaloc or his equivalent in the Mississipian culture, nor do we see Mayan villages with large earthwork mounds in the center.

Yes, there are examples of Tlaloc imagery in the southeast. I wrote about it in two separate articles:

Mayan Glyphs on Georgia, Florida Pottery?
Ancient Chihuahuas in Southeastern U.S.?

And yes, there are MANY Mayan villages with large earthwork mounds. The Chontal Maya built almost exclusively with earth. The Huastec Maya site of Tamtoc features an enormous earthen pyramid. Tamtoc is the northern most Mayan site known...and it's not far from the border with Texas. The Olmec built earthen mounds nearly exclusively and the Chontal Maya claim they descended from the Olmec. Many of the Chontal Maya artifacts suggest there is much truth to this belief.

Originally posted by Hanslune

Scholars did examine this, but it was found that the cultures weren't that similar. In addition, it requires them (after having made the trip down to Central/South America) to migrate north quite a long way... and leave no trace... and lose their language completely and their culture (deities and ceremonies) along with their methods of making clothing.

New research supports the older view. For instance, both Mayan words and glyphs show up on Swift Creek pottery dating from around 100 AD. Read this:

Mayan Glyphs on Georgia, Florida Pottery
Mayan Words Among Georgia's Indians?

The problem is the previous theory proposed that the Mississippian culture (1000 AD) was directly influenced from Mexico but scholars found this wasn't the case and thus argued the whole concept of Mexican contact was wrong because Mississippian cultures evolved from the previous Woodland Cultures like Swift Creek.

The problem is they didn't go far enough back in time. My research shows the Mayan influence comes in a thousand years before Mississippian cultures. It arrived with the Swift Creek culture. It's the Swift Creek pottery where I've found Mayan glyphs and the Hitchiti language (spoken where archaeologists found this pottery) contains Mayan words. So the archaeologists were right...the Mississippian culture DID evolve from the early Swift Creek culture...but the Swift Creek culture came from Mexico around 200 AD which is the exact same time that corn first arrived in Florida.

Originally posted by lindsaylove
Good thought but not supported by the evidence; as you noted Choctaw is a Muskogeon language while Mayan evolved from Proto-Mayan into Proto-Ch'olan and Proto-Yucatan both of which were influenced by other languages like Mixe–Zoquean these became the two main branches of what is now known as Mayan which is split into 21 dialects. No relation is noted between them and us Choctaws.

There are Mayan words in the Hitchiti language as well as the Natchez language:

lostworlds.org...

reply to post by LostWorldsORG


Sent you a PM with a suggestion

reply to post by Byrd



WHAAAT?

Compare this area to an area where it's known the Mayan elite DID flee to --Maccu Picchu. THAT is a Mayan exodus site. The Missippian mounds look nothing like that city and the emblems and symbols and ceremonies aren't really similar

I'm sure that is a slip of the tongue, Maya in Peru?

Originally posted by punkinworks10
reply to post by Byrd

 

WHAAAT?

Compare this area to an area where it's known the Mayan elite DID flee to --Maccu Picchu. THAT is a Mayan exodus site. The Missippian mounds look nothing like that city and the emblems and symbols and ceremonies aren't really similar

I'm sure that is a slip of the tongue, Maya in Peru?

oops I think she made a small error there, nice catch Punkinworks - however - can you prove that Mayan's didn't flee there (just kidding)

Well, in all fairness, the following DOES belong here, in this Thread to be perused regardless of the views expressed thus far by all.

Historian creates 3D image of 1,000-year-old civilisation in GEORGIA mountains



Now I agree, conjecture still points to this as nothing definitive, but it does seemingly have influences which bear a resemblance to Central American locales.

Throw in this mapping.



We can then see how the Natchez Trace could also have been employed for such a "migration"

My personal view is simple intermingling between the various Euro centric tribes and their Central American neighbors are the reason we find these anomalies in places like Georgia.

The "Northern" visitors to the Mayan Regions would have acquired many items through trade, and one could/should also consider that being a blending of the Peoples through intermarriage. It was common place "culturally speaking" and maybe this site in Georgia is an example of trying to make the "Newbies" to the region, feel more secure by presenting them a comfortable area to reside in or around.

Just some speculation on my part, and again, I did not see any of the 3D imagery in early posts, so I though it should be duly noted for review.

Is it going to changes the View's other here have, I doubt it myself, but live and learn.

Ciao

Shane

a reply to: StormMysticD

Update??

a reply to: Byrd

I thought Macchu Picchu was an Incan stronghold