Will the disturbing practice of hazing ever be a thing of the past?

Let's begin the discussion with an article I just read.

"Army transfers 8 US soldiers after suicide"
hosted.ap.org...

NEW YORK (AP) -- Pentagon officials say they have transferred eight soldiers to another base amid allegations that they mistreated one of their comrades shortly before he committed suicide in a guardhouse in Afghanistan.

The soldiers face charges ranging from dereliction of duty to involuntary manslaughter in the death of 19-year-old Army Pvt. Daniel Chen of New York City. Chen's relatives say he endured weeks of racial teasing and name calling while in training, then was subjected to hazing after he was deployed to Afghanistan.

A Pentagon spokesman, Navy Capt. John Kirby, said Wednesday the military was taking a zero-tolerance attitude toward soldiers who mistreat their comrades.

The eight soldiers are part of an infantry regiment based in Fort Wainright, Alaska. The soldiers are still in Afghanistan but have been relieved of their duties and confined to a different base, the military said. The next step is a hearing to determine if there is enough evidence for a court martial. The proceedings are expected to be held in Afghanistan.

Fellow soldiers at a base in Georgia teased him about his Chinese name, crying out "Chen!" in an exaggerated Asian accent, OuYang said. They called him "Jackie Chen," a reference to the Hollywood action star Jackie Chan. People would ask him repeatedly if he was Chinese, even though he was a native New Yorker.

Chen was trying to deal with the hazing in a healthy way by trying to go with the flow and laughing with them, but they kept on and the hazing got worse. He even reached out on his Facebook page, but no help came.

Chen had complained about the teasing in Facebook and email messages, discussions with cousins and in his journal. The Army has released excerpts of the journal to his parents.

Hazing is a deplorable and brutal form of bullying. I don't understand why people find it fun to torture, yes torture, individuals in this manner except to believe that the ones doing this are psychopaths and/or sociopaths. No normal, healthy human being should find it fun and satisfying to hurt someone mentally and physically.

Conducting an ATS search, there have been numerous threads about hazing and its destructive nature.
Here are just a few:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

So, as you can see, hazing has been addressed several times on ATS alone. When are fraternities, the military, social groups, and individuals in general going to get it through their thick heads that this is not a practice of someone who is enlightened nor sane.

With the advent of Facebook, we can see how bullying has erupted into cyberspace, which means that the trauma being done to someone in private is happening even more so.

Well, ATS. What should we do about it? Should there be a hotline dedicated to reporting hazing in an anonymous manner? Should anti-suicide activists be addressing hazing more than they already do?

What can be done about this sick and disturbing practice so it is buried once and for all?
After all, a person can only handle so much before they just can't take it anymore.

I never really understood hazing..or any gang/group violence mentality. I guess I just don't have it in me to join in on picking on or hitting/beating some other person. It all seems really stupid to me..

reply to post by Neopan100


I'd say that safely rules you out of the psycho/sociopath category.

I forgot to extend a warm thanks to all the ATS members who have brought up the topic of hazing in the past.
Thank you!

I have to assume that as long as hazing is being conducted at elite fraternities, it will never end.

"A Brief History of the Skull & Bones Society"
www.time.com...

Skull and Bones formed at Yale University, the third-oldest school in the U.S. and an institution "known for its strange, Gothic elitism and its rigid devotion to the past," according to journalist (and Yale secret society alumnae) Alexandra Robbins, who published Secrets of the Tomb in 2002. Skull and Bones is not the only secret society at the school either: others include the Scroll and Key, Wolf's Head, Berzelius and Book and Snake, all of which like keeping tabs on one another, some in the form of dossiers that include "reliability ratings." Each group picks its members in a highly confidential manner and subjects them to rounds of occult hazing rituals — what pledging a fraternity might be like, perhaps, at Hogwarts.

"Skull and Bones Hazing Secrets Unveiled"
www.accessmylibrary.com...

(From Fox News Channel)

Byline: Oliver North, Alan Colmes

COLMES: Welcome back to HANNITY & COLMES. I'm Alan Colmes.

Coming up, what's so funny about the war in Iraq? Humorist P.J. O'Rourke will be here.

But first, these scenes of ritual hazing occur every spring on the campus of Yale University. For more than 150 years, a select number of Yale juniors have been chosen to join an elite secret society called Skull and Bones.

Members pledge undying loyalty to each other and swear to never reveal the nature of their rituals. It might sound like any other fraternity, except Skull and Bones' elite list of members include George Herbert Walker Bush, George Walker Bush and John Forbes Kerry.

In this month's "Vanity Fair," our next guest takes us inside the tomb of Skull and Bones. Joining us now is the author of "Pledged: The Secret Life of Sororities," Alexandra Robbins.

Good to have you with us, Alexandra. What is it about... ALEXANDRA …

The article stops here and I'm unable to locate the remainder of it. I'll keep looking.

If hazing is acceptable at the highest levels, the trickle down theory can be applied here and one can understand why hazing is still looked at as a right of passage and not a form of torture.

As I was searching for the remainder of the other article, I stumbled up this website.
www.henrymakow.com...

As the Illuminati tighten their grip on humanity, we increasingly resemble them.

We are becoming more inhumane by the generation. A telling example is the dramatic increase in sexual bullying in UK schools over the last 5 years.
Another part of this trend is the increase in volume and severity of hazing.

Hazing is a term used to describe various activities involving harassment, abuse or humiliation used to initiate a person into a group. Initiation rituals like this are Masonic and satanic in origin and compromise, intimidate and blackmail the victim. They also establish a tacit Masonic pecking order.

The Illuminati use sadistic hazing rituals to ensure that new recruits conform. The rituals are often homosexual, to increase bonding between the initiates and further alienate the recruit from moral mainstream society, against which he will be required to wage war.

The revelations of Kay Griggs provide insight into how hazing operates inside the Illuminati. Kay was married to a US marine colonel who was an Illuminati insider. He was a trained assassin and worked in mind control among other things. He liaised with public names such as Donald Rumsfeld, George H. Bush, Dick Cheney and Henry Kissinger.

He called the people he was involved with 'members of The Firm or The Brotherhood.'

"He mentioned how many ... are members of the "Cap and Gown" Princeton group or the "Skull and Bones" Yale crowd and how they performed sexually perverted induction ceremonies with anal and oral sex performed inside coffins."

"I learned about how he was sexually molested by homosexual teachers at the elite Hun School, where a lot of the others in this small elite group also attended, including the members the Saudi Royal family. He told me how sex is used to control, intimidate and groom boys into this type of military service from a young age.'

I'm going to keep digging, but I hope everyone visits the website I've linked to above.

Hazing is a good way for everyone involved to ensure you are down, that you can be trusted, that you won't break, and that they can rely on you. It's not fun or nice, but it's a way to strengthen the chain, or dump the bad links before it's too late.

I think it's a tragedy what happened in this case, but they are in a war, best to haze the guy who's hands you are putting your life in than to go out and potentially die because your comrades were weak, and you didn't have a chance to toughen them up or weed them out.

Sorry, I don't condone these wars, or fraternities, or any of the elites bull#, but... Hazing, is a fact of human nature and it serves a purpose. Society is going way to pc and homogenized, it's not natural.

Originally posted by binkbonk
Hazing is a good way for everyone involved to ensure you are down, that you can be trusted, that you won't break, and that they can rely on you. It's not fun or nice, but it's a way to strengthen the chain, or dump the bad links before it's too late.

I think it's a tragedy what happened in this case, but they are in a war, best to haze the guy who's hands you are putting your life in than to go out and potentially die because your comrades were weak, and you didn't have a chance to toughen them up or weed them out.

Sorry, I don't condone these wars, or fraternities, or any of the elites bull#, but... Hazing, is a fact of human nature and it serves a purpose. Society is going way to pc and homogenized, it's not natural.

How do you know enough is enough?

When are the "comrades" satisfied? from the looks of this, they went far and beyond and pushed him beyond his limits. I seen few hazing myself, not on me but on others, It builds self esteem but it ends after a while, but when you push them further and further, the self esteem becomes doubt, depression and all the other negative effects.

reply to post by binkbonk


I'm sorry you feel that it has a useful place in society.
I wish that we're the case.
We're supposed to be intelligent and not lower ourselves to practicing brutal neanderthal tactics. One day we'll see that everyone has strengths and weaknesses and be accepting of this. The man in the story tried to show them that he was one of them and could take their jokes, but nothing satisfied them until he broke.

reply to post by Afterthought

Idealism, only works in conversation. Idealism is also important, to figure out ways for improvement, but human nature is like the tides of the ocean. Acceptance and awareness may be the best that can be done.

Here is a study that was conducted to try to understand the psychology of hazing. It's quite a lengthy and informative artcle and I hope people will read it in its entirety.

"The Prevalence, Tolerance, and Significance of Hazing on U.S. College Campuses"
www.acui.org...

A majority of the survey respondents indicated they did not feel any group unity as a result of their hazing, and three-fourths did not identify a sense of accomplishment following their experience. However, positive results from hazing were more often cited than negative results. Among these, 31 percent of students said they felt more like a part of the group and 22 percent said they felt a sense of accomplishment. Some student respondents seemed not only to tolerate hazing but also to see it as beneficial.

According to the study, these rationalizations occur because students have come to accept hazing as part of the campus culture. Nearly seven out of 10 students said they are aware of hazing behaviors on their campus. Of those who labeled their experiences as hazing (after reading the survey definition), 95 percent said they did not report the events to professional staff and administrators. Some of the reasons for not doing so included not wanting to get the group in trouble (37 percent), fear of negative consequences personally or for the group (20 percent), being shunned by other group members if they found out the behavior was reported (14 percent), not knowing where to report it (9 percent), and other group members hurting the individual if they discovered he or she had reported being hazed (8 percent).

In 25 percent of hazing experiences, students believed that either coaches or group advisors were aware of the activities. One reason might be that 53 percent of those who had experienced at least one hazing behavior said photos of the activity were posted online. Another 42 percent said they posted the hazing photos themselves.

Such broad awareness of hazing suggests the perception of hazing as a social norm, which has the potential to influence the extent to which students choose to participate in or tolerate hazing.

reply to post by binkbonk


I feel that as soon as people begin saying "no" to being hazed and believing that they don't need to be degraded and humiliated to be accepted, it will die out. The fact that humans feel a need to belong to a group, especially if the group is popular, really hinders the phasing out of hazings.

reply to post by Afterthought

People do not volunteer to be hazed. They don't want to be hazed. I'm not talking about fraternity hazing, I'm talking about societal hazing. King of the mountain is the way of the wild, it's not going away. You will be hazed, if you are around people that are stronger and smarter than you. I'm not necessarily referring to organized hazing... But, I'm ok with that too. It's very simple to avoid, just make the decision to not join that group or fraternity. Personal responsibility is key.

reply to post by binkbonk


You're speaking to someone who is strong enough and smart enough to not need acceptance to any group. I also feel that hazing is conducted by people who are emotionally stunted and have not matured at a normal rate. Children conduct a form of hazing very early in life. They'll often tell one of their friends to go knock on the door of the "haunted house" in the neighborhood or to smuggle out some of their mom/dad's smokes. These are usually harmless and used to show bravery, but as a person becomes older, they don't grow out of this for some reason. They still insist that someone do something or allow themselves to be hurt.

You say people don't ask to be hazed, but I argue that their need to belong is too strong and overrides their ability to stand up for themselves. Such as with these instances:
www.henrymakow.com...

Not all the details have been made public, but a Mother of one 15-year-old victim said her son was forced to walk around the team locker room with a set of water bottles tied to his testicles.

"One example was a girl named Arika whose pledge class had to answer trivia questions and drink straight vodka when they got a question wrong. They were also presented with a sharpie, a knife, a hammer and a dildo and the sisters said if they got enough wrong they would be violated with one of those four."

She also witnessed emotional hazing, one of the worst examples being "boob ranking".

"The sisters would bring pledges into a cold room and tell them to strip off their shirts and bras and line-up in order of breast size.

"Another woman I spoke with was forced to stand on a bench in front of a fraternity and everybody got to yell out parts of her body that need work. This happened in the '90s and almost a decade later she still had emotional scars."

My heart goes out to both of these individuals and I'm left outraged at the ones who thought this was funny and acceptable to do subject these people to such horrific abuse. It's never OK.

Article I just saw on CNN states that this man's hazing should be considered torture.

"Expert: Autopsy of Florida A&M drum major shows badly beaten muscles"
www.cnn.com...

A final autopsy report released Wednesday shows that Florida A&M University drum major Robert D. Champion suffered muscle damage commonly seen in such events as car accidents, prolonged seizures, child abuse and torture, an expert said.

The alleged fatal beating suffered last month by Champion, 26, during a marching band hazing must have been brutal, two experts said.

"His muscles were beaten so badly that they were destroyed like you would see in a heart attack," Dr. Howard Oliver, a forensic pathologist who is a former deputy medical examiner in the Los Angeles County Coroner's Office, told CNN after reviewing the autopsy findings.

Band bus a complex crime scene, expert says

The damaged muscles leaked out a protein called myoglobin, "and it's too much for the kidneys to process. It causes the kidneys

So sad.
I hope these kinds of incidents at least make people wake up and understand that all hazing must stop.
It's just disgusting how humans can harm others like this and the other instances I've mentioned within this thread. It's time to take a stand and let everyone become aware that it won't be tolerated anymore. Nobody should want to associate with animals like these nor think they're "cool". People who conduct hazing are not your friend. They just need you and others to get their jollies and nothing more.

Originally posted by binkbonk
Hazing is a good way for everyone involved to ensure you are down, that you can be trusted, that you won't break, and that they can rely on you. It's not fun or nice, but it's a way to strengthen the chain, or dump the bad links before it's too late.

I think it's a tragedy what happened in this case, but they are in a war, best to haze the guy who's hands you are putting your life in than to go out and potentially die because your comrades were weak, and you didn't have a chance to toughen them up or weed them out.

Sorry, I don't condone these wars, or fraternities, or any of the elites bull#, but... Hazing, is a fact of human nature and it serves a purpose. Society is going way to pc and homogenized, it's not natural.

Please seek mental help. Hazing is a sick action and something that only really happens when sociopaths or psychopaths get into positions of power in a group or organization.

P.S
For the good of the gene pool refrain from procreation.

The article reflects the uncivilized upbringing of the person who commits hazing. The perpetrator must be punished severely so that others won't even try to do it.

However, it's hard to prevent it in western cultures because of the wide usage of verbal assaults and vulgarities which are deemed normal in society now.

Good luck and may God bless innocent souls.

psychologically deformed primitive instincts one could astertain from first glance.

monkey see, monkey do?

the craving for violence in those that seek it is a planted idea from those around them and the world at large.
masculinity being the scapegoat for the weak to dominate the weaker.

Hazing will never go a way it is part of the "in crowd" "be the part of it" and "become one of the few" it is all a round you/ us, dye your hair, shave your head, grow a beard, get spanked with a wet towel, or a cricket bat, eat gold fish, or get punched, kicked or choked; They are some of the more brutal,and fatal ones we are hearing reading about , will it be stopped or go away? This is like asking will fraternity's go away. Will the Armed services go away, or will schools, and team sports? The answer is no they will not, nor will this madness , it will go on, just in different ways, hopefully not as violent, I would list them, but then some one might just do them.

Regarding the FAMU hazing that killed a young man, the latest information is eerily reminiscent of Penn State's executives who decided to turn a blind eye and deaf ear by doing nothing and allowing it to continue.
"For years, angry FAMU parents warned Ammons, others of hazing"
www.orlandosentinel.com...

In the years leading up to the beating death of Florida A&M University drum major Robert Champion on Nov. 19, parents begged university President James Ammons and other top officials to take a harder stand against hazing of marching band members.

Family members expressed their anger and fear in letters, emails, text messages and during meetings with officials after their children told them about a culture of abuse that started almost immediately after students began practicing with the famed Marching 100, according to interviews, student testimonials and public records obtained by the Orlando Sentinel.

Emerging from the complaints is a picture of an administration that was either unwilling or unable to stem a decades-long, entrenched tradition of hazing despite repeated injuries, lawsuits and the university's efforts to warn band members that the practice was illegal and could lead to suspensions, fines or arrests.

Students even signed anti-hazing pledges at the start of the school year.But those promises were often ignored on the practice field and in places outside the view of campus leaders.

New information shows that Champion paid dearly for his strong stance against hazing:

Champion, who was slated to become the band's top drum major next school year, resisted hazing and encouraged other band members not to give in to it. His vocal opposition could be one reason he was so brutally attacked, Christopher Chestnut, the Champion family's attorney, told the Sentinel. Others interviewed by the Sentinel said the same thing. It still has not been determined, however, if Champion finally gave in to hazing on the day he was beaten to death, or if he was attacked against his will, Chestnut said.

It's a shame that you cannot speak out against these heinous practices without paying with your life.
Here's additional information:

Some parents suspected band staff members of condoning hazing. A letter from one parent suggests band director White did not trust some of the people under him to help eliminate hazing because they would expose the identities of students who came forward. "Dr. White has had to be creative in his handling of these complaints as staff and other leaders were defiant of his authority," parent Berlinda Johnson wrote to Ammons last semester.
•Since 2004, White has suspended, terminated or put on probation at least 40 students from the band because of hazing allegations. That's the same year former band member Marcus Parker won $1.8 million in a lawsuit against members of the band after he was paddled so hard during a 2001 hazing that he suffered kidney damage. In 1998, the year White became band director, clarinet player Ivery Luckey was paddled about 300 times during a hazing ritual and was hospitalized with kidney failure. He sued the school and settled for $50,000.
•Twenty-six of the suspensions meted out by White occurred in the days after freshman clarinet player Bria Hunter was hazed so severely that she was hospitalized with a broken leg Nov. 7 — just 12 days before the Classic. Those suspensions involved students in the clarinet and trombone sections of the band.

Repeated attempts to reach Ammons, White and other FAMU officials through emails, phone calls and text messages went unanswered. Last week, however, the university's board of trustees voted to ask a committee of national experts to study anti-hazing initiatives and recommend changes for the university.

So, broken legs, damaged kidneys, reprimands, and law suits aren't enough to warrant stronger anti-hazing initiatives and drastic changes. It's a shame that it goes ignored until someone dies. They had to know that this was just a matter of time.

Two years ago, parent Cheryl Walker of St. Louis told the Sentinel, she warned Ammons in an email about the dangers of hazing. In the email, she described the abuse that her son was experiencing at the hands of upperclassmen in the band.

"He said, 'Momma, I am scared! We have to run off the field after practice so the upperclassmen and alumni won't beat us up and one day we ran and accidently left one of the freshmen brothers on the field and they kicked him in his stomach,' " Walker wrote Ammons on Sept. 24, 2009, adding that her son would walk to meetings carrying a metal pipe to protect himself and had asked her to mail him Mace.

Her son ended up quitting the band and leaving FAMU. Walker said she met with Ammons and a representative from of the department of student affairs, who said the school was aware of the problem.

"They knew and they said they couldn't stop it,"