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French lawmakers face ire of Turkey in vote on punishing denial of genocide of Armenians

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posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 06:38 AM
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French lawmakers face ire of Turkey in vote on punishing denial of genocide of Armenians


www.washingtonpost.com

Lawmakers vote on Thursday on a measure that would make it a crime in France to deny that a mass killings of Armenians in 1915 amounted to a genocide, a measure that could put France on a collision course with Turkey, a strategic ally and trading partner which says the conflict nearly 100 years ago should be left to historians.

France formally recognized the killings as genocide in 2001, but provided no penalty for anyone denying that. The bill sets a punishment of up to one year in prison and a fine of €45,000 ($59,000) for those who deny or “outrageously minimize” the killings by Ot
(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.theprovince.com

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
US Congress panel accuses Turkey of Armenian 'genocide'
Turkey warns US on Armenia genocide bill




posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 06:38 AM
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This genocide/holocaust card is starting to get overplayed. I think it's very disrespectful to deny the suffering of many different groups of people who have experienced this, but it should not be punishable by jail time.

The lines are being crossed in every direction, our rights are disappearing. Next month we will be punished for voicing displeasure against our politicians. I can sadly see the day coming very soon.

www.washingtonpost.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 06:41 AM
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It has passed, just now:

French lawmakers pass genocide law on Armenians


PARIS (AP) — French lawmakers have easily passed a measure that would make it a crime in France to deny that the mass killings of Armenians in 1915 amounted to a genocide. There was no official vote count in the balloting in France's lower house of parliament, where lawmakers simply voted by raising their hands. The measure now goes to the Senate. Lawmakers denounced what they called Turkey's propaganda effort in a bid to sway them.


It is now punishable by jail in France to deny the Armenian genocide. Denying a mass genocide is very ignorant, but to be imprisoned for saying it is just as sinister.
edit on 22-12-2011 by Corruption Exposed because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 06:47 AM
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system of a down dude will be pretty happy
denying genocide is not cool.
to say you shouldnt goto jail for it... well i think you should goto jail for saying you shouldnt goto jail for denying it.

how can people get away with genocide?
you know the answer



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 06:48 AM
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This is very alarming. France has become a lot different lately compared to a couple decades ago. The whole Euro block is turning into a Soviet model.



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 06:51 AM
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Wow this is scary and messed up


So the government that in the name of "democracy" spearheaded the Libya bombing campaign that killed thousands and continues to kill thousands in its aftermath, now says it will send it's people to jail for simply not agreeing with them?

So it is now a crime in France punishible by incarceration for just disagreeing with the government, not protesting or taking any action, but simply disagreeing? Appaling!


Don't get me wrong, I don't deny or condone the genocide of Armenians, but disagreeing with your government that should be serving you and being punished by jail is disgusting in any modern society


I think it's time to declare a no fly zone over France to protect it's citizens, the question is, who is going to spearhead this campaign?



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 06:54 AM
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reply to post by lifttheveil
 


The same thing happens in Germany. No one denies the Holocaust, but there are known discrepancies. It's a crime to point these discrepancies out. That it'self should cause people to question the reasoning behind this.



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 06:57 AM
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Originally posted by stopmakingsense
system of a down dude will be pretty happy
denying genocide is not cool.
to say you shouldnt goto jail for it... well i think you should goto jail for saying you shouldnt goto jail for denying it.

how can people get away with genocide?
you know the answer



I think you misunderstood my post. I don't condone any denying of Genocide, at all! But, you SHOULD NOT go to jail for saying it, and for you to think I should go to jail for sharing this opinion leaves me no choice but to assume you're not completely aware of the facts pertaining to the situation. We're entitled to opinions so I won't ridicule you for having one, but please don't judge me for holding a different opinion, mine is much less extreme than yours.



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 06:58 AM
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Now we have an official version of History, and anyone who disagree, and defend another version, can go to jail.

"You commited a historiographic crime! You are under arrest!"

I wonder what the famous French historians from the famous "Annales School" are thinking about this...

So sad that it's coming from the land of Marc Bloch, Lucien Febvre, Fernand Braudel, Marc Ferro and Jacques Le Goff...



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 06:59 AM
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Israel will probably not like the passing of this bill, they do not like the Armenians hogging some of the spotlight when it comes to international pity:


One of the formidable obstacles in Jewish-Armenian and Israel-Armenia relations is Israel’s attitude towards the Armenian anti-Turkish claims. As expected for the Armenians, Israel is the most important state in convincing the world to the ‘Armenian genocide claims’ and as Asbarez pointed out, for the Armenians, the importance of the recognition of the Armenian political claims by the Jews, and more importantly by Israel, cannot be overstated.[1] Therefore, the Armenian international campaign especially has focused on Israel and the Jews.[2] However Israel has consistently refrained from acknowledging the Armenian claims. Israel even in the recent years officially declared that the 1915 Relocation and the following inter-communal clashes couldn’t be called ‘genocide’ or ‘holocaust’. Government representatives have never participated in the memorial assemblies held by the Armenians every year on 24 April to commemorate the ‘genocide’.[3]

www.turkishweekly.net...



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 07:01 AM
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Wow.. not making friends, and I guess that certainly slams the EU door in the Turkish faces.. shame as they are nice people.

As for the law itself it seems strange to me that anyone could consider making a law to state that only certain ways of thinking are correct and any deviation will be met with gaol time and a criminal record.

What an upside down world we live in... I guess it'll only get worse before it gets better...



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 07:04 AM
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I wonder how much this law was inspired by anti-Muslim and anti-Turkish bigotry and chauvinism...

"Armenians are Christians, Turks are Muslims. We don't like Turkish immigrants. Let's create a law to upset the Turks."


edit on 22-12-2011 by GLontra because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 07:06 AM
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It doesn't matter if it was a genocide or if it even happened in this context. It's misleading.

This is just a sneaky way to suppress free speech and liberty of opinion, which is a human right.



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 07:08 AM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash
It doesn't matter if it was a genocide or if it even happened in this context. It's misleading.

This is just a sneaky way to suppress free speech and liberty of opinion, which is a human right.


I am also not thinking if there was a genocide or not. I don't know. I never studied the subject.

The problem is the fact that now it's a crime to challenge the "official version of History", established by the State.



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 07:08 AM
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reply to post by GLontra
 


That's a good point. I personally thought it may be due to various other reasons that I'm not willing to speculate about yet. But you're theory is certainly a good one I must consider.

France has been very anti Muslim lately with the whole head dress thing and the riots caused by the North Africans caused a lot of divide between the citizens. France is a very conflicted diverse area. This bill is bound to cause some uproar from many different groups, you mark my word.



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 07:08 AM
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reply to post by Corruption Exposed
 


i am saying put EVERYONE in jail
who really cares
they kill people we kill people
they say we killed people they say we maybe killed people
we say we killed people we also say we didnt kill people

i am so over all of this he said, she said bullsh!t
sorry to take it out on you
but if you were in jail there wouldnt be a problem
and if i was in jail there wouldnt be an issue

JAIL FOR EVERYONE NOW

(we're already in a cell)



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 07:10 AM
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It's all about the context. More often than not, the denial or minimalising of holocaust / genocide comes hand in hand with more extreme views.

For the Government of Turkey to overlook, sidestep or 'forget' atrocities they undertook in the past is outrageous. If the law prevents this in France - then it must be a positive step. A sensible discussion on such events can occur with no fear of prosecution - to say a death toll was 1.4 million instead of 1.5 million, based on new evidence, is reasonable. To say something never happened, or that the entire pretense it happened under is incorrect, is unreasonable. Acts such as the Temporary Law of Expropriation and Confiscation act clearly sought to destroy a people based on their heritage and religion.

I'm no fan of France, but they have made an excellent call with this decision - I hope other countries follow suit.



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 07:13 AM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


That's exactly it, they're systematically conditioning us to accept free speech is not a right.



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 07:17 AM
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reply to post by ComeFindMe
 


I imagine what happens when the USA approves a law that makes a crime to deny the fact that England commited "genocide" against the Irish people...

Or when Germany a approves a law that makes a crime to deny the fact that the USA commited "genocide" against the indigenous tribes during the "conquest of the West".



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 07:35 AM
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reply to post by Corruption Exposed
 


The reason why Israel won't formally declare the Armenian Genocide is because there were Turkish Jews among the Ottoman military who were involved in the slaughter of the Turkish Armenians and who also happen to fight among the Ottomans against the British and the ANZACs.

Among the first of the Armenians who went to the slaughter were doctors, scientists, and wealthy businessmen, as did their women and children.




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