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Oldest obsidian bracelet reveals amazing craftsmen's skills in the eighth millennium BC

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posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 10:07 AM
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Originally posted by BohemianBrim
ok the actual picture shows its just a tiny piece of what may or MAY NOT be a bracelet. and that tiny chunk looks NOTHING CLOSE to the digital reconstruction, except for how they imagine the general shape to be.

all those cool facets that make that digital image worth oooing and awwing over are not in the original.. which is just a tiny shard that... honestly... how on earth did they decide it was a bracelet? how could they possibly have recognized it as ANYTHING? it could be anything at all its so small, why do they assume it just continued on its small arch into a circle? why not some other way to form something else? and why a bracelet?

is this really all archeology is? people guessing what things look like?

they say the craftsmanship is amazing? by what standards? is this one of many small hunks of rock that might be bracelets too?

[/end old man rant]


EXACTLY what I was going to write but you got there first.

"If" it looked like the reconstruction drawing then it would be amazing but I fail to see how they made the leap to get there from the small piece they found. I am not saying it didn't look like that but I can't say it did either....nor can they.with any certainty.
I believe there have been civilizations superior to ours in the past that have been lost and or covered up but to me this is proof of neither.
I know everyone will continue to speculate on the matter and see want they want. or even worse is seeing what someone else tells them they are seeing and believe it.




posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 11:06 AM
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Originally posted by AlphaExray
reply to post by Maxmars
 
That is gasket not a bracelet.

AX

FTNWO


I was thinking that myself,the annular flanged external ridging suggests that the object requires reinforcing from internal pressures/forces,i.e think of an exhaust bracket or an external flange used to join 2 pipes,now what could something of that size(I am guessing approx 4 inch internal diameter) be used for? perhaps a very high pressure fuel line?,maybe when they find details of or release the rest of the vehicle that it came from!



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 11:46 AM
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A bracelet?

This looks more like an information disc...a 10 000 year old usb flash disk. ^^



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 12:31 PM
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Originally posted by LightSpeedDriver
reply to post by HunkaHunka
 

I checked a second time and I read:

Digital reconstruction of the bracelet proposed by Mohamed Ben Tkaya (LTDS). Credit: Obsidian Use Project Archives. This image is available from the CNRS photo library,

I know from other threads on this site that this is not always a totally accurate representation of the original object but I am happy to confirm my ignorance in this case. The digital could be a faithful reproduction too but I am unsure. That does not negate my comments about the lies of current thinking about history or man's technological abilities thousands of years ago. "Some say" the pyramids are at least 30,000 years old which I personally find more believable than the acknowledged age of 3,000 BC or whatever it is thought to be.


If you look at the top.. there are actual pictures of the fragments... the only thing that is an artists rendering is the full scale model...


And since you don't seem to be able to actually view the article.. I'll link to the pic

cdn.physorg.com...

edit on 22-12-2011 by HunkaHunka because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 12:50 PM
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Stone implements from more recent stone age civilisations show that abrading stone can be a remarkably precise process, precisely (sic) because the stone is so hard and the tools available remove so little of it - grinding by hand with other stone, sand, wood and bone means there is almost no opportunity to take off "too much" material.

Look at the stone clubs - mere - of the Maori in New Zealand for example - made of jade by hand until at least Europeans arrived in numbers circa 1850-ish they are pieces of art as well as bloody dangerous weapons!



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 01:09 PM
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The knowledge of metal working that was involved in making this is just amazing to me... Don't see how some scientists can say our ancient ancestors brains were far less evolved than the current human brain. I really believe humanity is loosing it's intelligence. The more we rely on technology to aid us in our daily lifes the less we use our brain. Schools have removed the creative process from learning. It really shouldn't suprise anyone.

Our ancestors had a greater understand of just about everything related to nature and the natural order of things. I laugh every time I hear some crazy theory how they were able to acomplish all this without an advanced brain or advanced tools. There are stories from the ancient inca's talking about huge gold colored birds they witnessed building temples. Talking about how these birds would move massive stones then spit up some strange liquid that made the stone soft so it would just drop into place with ease. Either they were on some really good narcotics to imagine this or they really saw this taking place. If mainstream science can't fully explain how they did this why do they look at information like this as fictional stories?

Granted it may sound far fetched but until we can travel back in time to prove 100% without a doubt how they made all this stuff it's all speculation on there part... These people were NOT stupid there civlization's lasted for thousand's of years. Really we are children compared to them, we should pay more attention to what they are trying to tell us with this information. Like angels... I don't believe there were humanoids with wings they were simply trying to tell us these beings were capable of flight. Show me the remains of a bipedal upright being with wings and I will retract that statement. But won't hold my breath...



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 01:19 PM
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reply to post by HunkaHunka
 

Thanks.l I can view the article but only realised afterwards that the "blob" at the top was the fragment. Sometimes I read too quickly but it was the patterning that got me all in a tizz.

Cheers



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 01:40 PM
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Clearly, there are more than one set of opinions to work with here.

I fully expected all of us to be able to refer to the source document for the more detailed aspects of the OP; but some seem to think I was trying to 'misrepresent'(?) something by including the digital synthesis of the artifact. Many of you should know better, but I assure those of you disinclined to believe so, I did not intend to imply that they found the complete bracelet.

As for the "how can they be sure it was a bracelet and not part of some other object?"... this has been a perennial kind of complaint by many critics of archaeology and their methodology. I don't doubt it was a bracelet; but that certainty is admittedly borne of the trust I have in scientific methods and field experience on behalf of those who survey such dig sites for a living.

The notion of craftsmanship and specialization of skills becomes reinforced as likely ancient workshops and trade centers are found. The remnants of many such things are found among the areas we believe are used for such purposes. Lacking those other clues, one might think the object was traded from some other location. In the end, the level of multi-scale tribological analysis was not based upon some haphazard guesswork or blind supposition.

According to the Journal of Archaeological Science:


Artifacts of personal adornment, mirrors, and vessels made from polished obsidian occur in Anatolian sites of the 7th and 6th millennia cal. B.C. and are considered expressions of remarkable stone craft skills developed during this period (Healey, 2000, 2007; Vedder, 2005). Recently, a fragment of obsidian bracelet with highly polished surface and complex morphology (Fig. 1), dating back to the 8th millennium cal. B.C., was discovered at As¸ ıklı Höyük in Central Anatolia, indicating a greater antiquity for the practice of obsidian polishing.


Here are but a few of the analytical diagrams included in the more robust report (which I didn't find until today.)



You can note that the extension of the curve is what brought the full circular bracelet into theoretical existence.



Just an idea of the process is given above....



Many more images are available and much ore technical detail in the following document:

www.sciencedirect.com...

Insofar as those objecting to the importance of this... well that's your opinion. Neolithic man has perennially been represented to us as only a hairs breadth from a savage; and certainly no where as sophisticated and civilized as we are.... I find that increasingly difficult to accept... and the only recourse for those who feel otherwise seems to be to reject evidence.... even when it is presented by scientific specialists who themselves consider the find astounding and game-changing.

I would imagine a good test would be to engage some engineering/manufacturing group to request a bracelet (or ring) of obsidian be produced to the same specifications which appear to apply to this object. I suspect that you will be told - it cannot be done without a great deal of investment in the process; if at all.

For me, the idea that people capable of such precision and craftsmanship would take millenia to get to the point of fabricating precision tools eludes me. Most of our comparable achievements in manufacturing took place in the last handful of centuries.... so... is there no point in determining why it should be so; or entertaining the idea that the there may have been more than one 'dark age' to account for?



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 01:47 PM
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That makes me wonder if the pits and grooves are actually like a record or maybe like the surface of a microchip. I don't think that thing is just a bracelet. There is something about that is technical I think. Maybe they could scan it like a CD and see if anything happens?



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 02:12 PM
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Originally posted by JAY1980
The knowledge of metal working that was involved in making this is just amazing to me...


What?? No knowledge of metalworking at all amazes you??




Don't see how some scientists can say our ancient ancestors brains were far less evolved than the current human brain.


they don't - where do yuo get that??



I really believe humanity is loosing it's intelligence. The more we rely on technology to aid us in our daily lifes the less we use our brain. Schools have removed the creative process from learning. It really shouldn't suprise anyone.


Even if the reasoning were true evolution has had nearly enough time to make it actually happen - we haven't even really started to evolve to be better at farming which may have started 10-15,000 years ago, let alone computers.

Although maybe autism is a start!



Our ancestors had a greater understand of just about everything related to nature and the natural order of things.


Absolute nonsense - they didn't understand it at all - they had to live with its vagiaries, and invented gods to try to explain it. they had less resources, still managed to wipe out species, died young and of diseases we consider trivial. In some places the teeth in skulls of 30-40 year olds have been found worn flat because of all the sand they ingested with their food abrading them.

humanity has never "had it better"



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 02:15 PM
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This reminded me of the craftsmanship of some of the artifacts studied by Klaus Dona. Here is a video. This has been on ATS before, but I thought it was relevant to this thread:



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 02:20 PM
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Looks more like hardware rather than a bracelet. There is so much to earths history I feel has been hidden from the eyes of man, Either we were once more advanced or just as advanced as we are today( just not as gaget hungry) or there was another species here before us, or with us...possibly still today. It just dont make sense that artifacts of such amazing craftmanship are found all over the globe from thousands upon thousands of ears ago....sometimes you just have to go with what makes sence, what makes sense to me is that there was civilizations here at some point that understood science to such a great degree that they did not need the tools we use today, that alone says so much.



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 02:28 PM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


Getting the mainstream scientific community to rethink there position on the only things they deem acceptable is essentially equivalent to a holy war. It just won't happen. The very science they demand is the only truth presents new answers that throw out there current positions.

It will take another Renaissance to achieve any acceptance in the mainstream in my opinion.



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 03:36 PM
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wait, weren't we monkeys 10,000 years ago according to evolutionists.

all humans could do back then was grunt and throw stones.



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 03:39 PM
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Well, we are a species that has sent people to the moon, visited the lowest point in the ocean, discovered particles unimaginably small, and have a good bit of information about the origins of the universe. Everyone knows their fair share of idiots, but when it comes down to it we are an amazingly inquisitive, intelligent, and capable species. I think we don't give early humans enough credit. It's not as if a magic switch was waiting to get flipped to start our ingenuity. No aliens required!



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 03:41 PM
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Originally posted by randomname
wait, weren't we monkeys 10,000 years ago according to evolutionists.

all humans could do back then was grunt and throw stones.


No, 'evolutionists' clearly show that anatomically modern humans have been present on Earth for approximately 200,000 years.

The 10,000 year mark is generally thrown around by creationists as when Adam and a rib woman went from two people to a few billion.

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by randomname
wait, weren't we monkeys 10,000 years ago according to evolutionists.

all humans could do back then was grunt and throw stones.


And 'monkeys' aren't exactly intellectual sea slugs. Our great ape brethren are highly intelligent, and I would bet they'd give some of the DaVincis in my checkout line a run for their money any day.



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 04:11 PM
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i've been cutting rock for 25 years. carving, cutting cabs, faceting.
obsidian is very difficult to shape.
obsidian=volcanic glass, very brittle.
knapping is the easiest way, arrowheads, spearheads. even with my modern equipment it would be near impossible to acually finish the piece they mention.
the thought of doing it by hand is mind boggling.'
i'll need to read entire thread, but i'm not convinced the piece was actually a full circle.



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 04:30 PM
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This...lol



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 04:35 PM
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reply to post by Maxmars
 


It's actually easy to do this with simply technology.

Still. It's amazing.




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