Government Motors Volt Costs Taxpayers $250,000 per Vehicle, page 3

reply to post by jdub297

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That's how bankruptcy works, the Govt comes in and takes over, yes stripped the rights of the voting shares but that occurs all the time everytime a company files for bankruptcy protection means that they lose the control over their company while it's gets restructured.

So, the best solution was to let it sink and risk putting 20 million more out of work? Kill America's chance to get in front of this instead of playing catchup?

If you file for bankruptcy means that you have no more options and must publicly admit that you have failed not only your executive board, but have failed your stockholders, you are admitting that you've been incompetent and are not inept to handle your company anymore and once you do that you are typically the first to get bounced out of your seat and are relieved of command..

The Federal Govt took control over it to prevent it from being gobbled up by some foreign firm. Would you really want the All American, iconical and classical sports car, The Chevrolet Corvette to be under say, German control? Hell no! The Corvette allows us to compete with Aston Martin, Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Bentley as the 2009 Corvette ZR1 is the fastest and most powerful car for under $300,000 as it does 220 mph and rocks a 638bhp Supercharged Corvette LS9 V8 and costs only $130,000. No other car in production has specs like that for that price.

The 2014 Corvette C7 is coming and the nameplate celebrates it's 59th anniversary for 2012. The Chevrolet Suburban is the longest running car in current production as 2012 marks it's 76th year of production, longer then that of the VW Beetle, Mercedes-Benz SL Klasse, Porsche 911, Aston Martin DB Series, Nissan Skyline/GT-R Series, Nissan Fairlady Z Series, Ford Mustang and is shorter only to the Ford F Series which for 2012 marks 64 years.

reply to post by alonzo730

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Both GM and Ford were in financial peril in 2009.

Obama and GM twisted the law, screwed investors and shareholders, and takes advantage of taxpayer subsidies to this day. Its "marquee" cars, the Cruze and the Volt don't sell.
Chevy's Cruze seems headed for flopsville
Big Trouble for Obama's GM

Ford used equity and debt financing (i.e., they bet their own asses) and has exceeded all investors' expectations.
Their Fusion is ranked #1 out of 23 mid-size cars.The Fiesta is ranked #1 out of 40 small cars..
Fiesta #1 out of 40 Small Cars, US News
Fusion #1 in Mid-Size Cars, US News

USA Today reports the Volt has "fizzled.
Electric Car has Fizzled

And taxpayers subsidize it for $250,000 for buyers earning an average $170,000.
Government Subsidies up to $250,000 per Car

You don't need to hate GM to see which best embodies American principles and consumer value.

jw

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

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That's how bankruptcy works, the Govt comes in and takes over, yes stripped the rights of the voting shares but that occurs all the time everytime a company files for bankruptcy protection means that they lose the control over their company while it's gets restructured.

Once again, you reveal you are oblivious to the truth or just choose to ignore facts.

In a Chapter 11 re-organization an independent trustee is responsible to protect all assets and "work-out" a reduction of debt. The company remains in operation throughout the process.

Airlines have gone through this many times over. AMR is doing it right now. Casino holding companies have done it as well; ask Donald Trump. GM is no better than any airline, or any hotel/casino chain.
You have bo idea what you are writing about.

This was not a re-organization, it was an opportunity to grab property outside of established legal principles, reward cronies, destroy creditors' rights, and establish a foothold in industry through which Obama could channel funds to products and institutions it wanted to reward. It was a rape of the system the taxpayers, the Constitution and the law.

deny ignorance

jw

reply to post by jdub297

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Like I said, it's easier to let an American company fall and put more out of work which would've sent the stock market into a deathspiral to the point where right now the DJIA would've been at less then 3,000 pts as a direct result.

This ripple wouldn't've just stopped at GM, Ford and Chrysler but would've continued to ripple into companies like Western Star, Kenworth, Pierce Manufacturing, Osh Kosh, Force Protection, Peterbilt, Colet, E-One, American LaFrance, Autocar, International, Case IH, Tucker Terra, Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Norththorp-Grumman, airports, commercial shipping companies, private shipping companies, recycling companies, construction companies, heavy duty shipping and transportation companies, raw materials manufactueres and harvesters, farming communities and every single company that relies on and employs heavy machinery. That is how vast the entire US Automotive and Transportation Industry is! This would've eventually continued until it affected The US Dept Of Defense and even into The US

Now do you get why this was needed for?

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

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"So instead of propping up an American company, based in America that employs Americans was wrong? "

Yeah, using tax dollars is wrong...

GM is a failure, politicians are exemplars of failure, and lying criminals.. great idea marrying the two!!, lets toss together 2 abject failures and pay for whatever abortion the incompetent buffoons decide on.

After all, the US govt is so super awesomely responsible with money, who better to over see a bankrupt company.. lool..

GM is a war profiteer, and a manufacturer the war mongers need to plow over Afghan farmers.. they had to keep GM in the fold. What if new new competent management had virtue, or worse.. a conscious!! and said no to aggressive war blood money?.. no more Hummers & other war goodies needed by the man.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

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Like I said, it's easier to let an American company fall and put more out of work which would've sent the stock market into a deathspiral to the point where right now the DJIA would've been at less then 3,000 pts as a direct result.

Once again, you prove you have bo idea what you are saying.

Ch. 11 does NOT put a company out of business. The company stays in business as the trustee re-organizes its debt. No one is out of work, and no foreigners "buy" the debtor-in-possession."

You are pathetically clinging to a scenario that never existed except in the minds of the Obama admin. fearmongers who saw GM as "ripe for the taking."

I suppose one could say that , ultimately, the company (GM) WAS "raken over by foreigners:" the Obama admin and the UAW!


All of the other major Ch. 11s like the airlines, the casino/hotel holding cos. came out of their respective experiences as leaner, meaner competitirs; not some abominable zombie, like GM, glued to the taxpayer tit until it ultimately kills the parent like a parasite or dies of its own innate inability to compete and survive on its owm.

How pathetic to cling to an illusion to justify belief in a fascistic/socialistic fairy tale.

deny ignorance.

jw

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
So, the best solution was to let it sink and risk putting 20 million more out of work? Kill America's chance to get in front of this instead of playing catchup?

Do you really not understand the difference between Chapter 11 debt refinance and Chapter 7 liquidation? General Motors would have used the former, not the latter. The company would not have been sold off piecemeal and the majority off jobs would have been retained without stripping the rightful bondholders of their constitutionally upheld property.

reply to post by GovtFlu

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So you'd rather see it go down in flames to force it to sell off all of it's property and put it out of work? That was you grand plan?

Not possible. GM to the US economy is just as important as GE or Microsoft is take it out and the damage would've been detrimental to our economy.

GM fails America fails as GM is as American as apple pie and baseball.

GM had a partnership with Toyota under the banner of The New United Motors Manufacturing, Inc. which folded in 08 to prevent GM from allowing us to compete on the global stage. GM's had a Government contract since the 1920's so why disrupt that?

reply to post by jdub297

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It was to prevent the likes of VW Group, Daimler, AG from seizing control over it to crush it.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

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You honestly know nothing of economics or usury.

Volt gets 35mpg with gas at 340 miles. It's charge last 35 miles. (assuming you don't go up hills, where I live it would get around 15-20 miles.) with a 9 gallon tank. That would give you an average of 40 MPG.

Both it's electric battery is far, far, far below industry standards and it's gasoline engine is highly inefficient for such a heavy car. The EPA has done some major skewing with the numbers.. including listing on the car's site and the EPA's site that the car goes 340 miles on gas and 35 on battery with a 9 gallon tank. Then says it gets 60MPG? .. all you have to do is add the entire mileage together (approx 370) and divide it by the total gas capacity. You get 40.

I'm not saying the Volt doesn't have it's uses .. if you only lived within 5 miles of where you lived for instance, great car. Of course... you could also ride a bike. But I digress. I cannot fathom spending $40k on a car to drive 5 miles a day. So i am saying, placing the Volt side by side with other cars .. it doesn't compare.

reply to post by jdub297

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Ford also has a superior line of electric and hybrid cars compared to GM now. Including the new electric Focus.

But the Fiesta (40 mpg) Fusion Hybrid (41mpg) and Focus SE (40mpg) all cost a fraction of the Volt and get the same miles per gallon.

www.azuredynamics.com...
They also produced the first mass developed commercial transit truck as an EV.
They are also the first to set a program within the cars computer system to put a cap on the speed of the car. So parents can cap the car at 45 mph, hilarious, in the new focus EV

Moral of the story.. Fascism sucks.

reply to post by Rockpuck

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And they did it with no bailouts, and have reduced their debt load considerably.
Their stock's performance make GM's look like a Ponzu scheme: no one wants to be the last one in at a given price, omly to see it contune falling.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

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"So you'd rather see it go down in flames to force it to sell off all of it's property and put it out of work? That was you grand plan?"

I could care less about GM, but why couldn't willing private sector investors save those jobs?..Soulless politicians have been bleeding US jobs over seas for generations, yet suddenly I'm supposed to believe they care?.. lol, whatever..

Plain & simple.. GM is an asset the oligarchs needed to secure for the aggressive wars & occupations to continue unabated..

reply to post by Rockpuck

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It's the first gen of the tech and the first gen of any tech is crap compared to later models. Take the iPad and iPhone for example, the first of each was high tech new and the tech employed is common now which makes the newest generation crush the older ones.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

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And Apple did it with NO government subsidies, government buyer incentives and government purchases to keep them in production!

You example perfectly illustrates the power of private innovation and true consumer interest, as opposed to state-planning and selection of industries and products.

Apple didn't have to make an iPod or an iPhone, but it created a product the public had true interest in. It did it with private capital and support from the market.

The exact opposite of Obama's Government Motors shoving crap down consumer throats while using taxpayer money to subsidize the product, the market and the manufacturer. Excellent choice of examples of everything that is wrong with GM, Volt and state planning. All this, without even going into the quality (or lack thereof) of the product itself!

Bravo!

deny ignorance

jw

reply to post by eagleeye2

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Of course with any hybrid if you run it at like 90mph the battery is gonna be depleted. That's with gas too. Duh!

Top Gear UK had a Tesla Roadster on it's track and killed the battery charge in like 5 mins flat as they high revved it! Keep it in a low rev and you can go for miles without it being depleted!

Hence why at top speed of 253.9 mph a Bugatti Veyron's gas tank will be empty in 14 mins.

The performance hybrids are in development now with Porsche leading the way with it's 911 GT3 RS Hybrid and it';s 918 Hybrid!

reply to post by jdub297

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So, let's just nuke the Middle East, China, Russia, Asia, Africa all to steal their oil because if we don't get off the tit of oil soon that will be our future. Besides, the Wars Over energy are over and by 2030 you will not be able to buy a petrol powered car produced new so you might as well get used to it.

Major leaps forward in tech require a little sacrifice!

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