Government Motors Volt Costs Taxpayers $250,000 per Vehicle

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posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 04:56 AM
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reply to post by jdub297
 


Wrong,

The loan was paid back sometime this past year :
www.factcheck.org...

A May 2011 report form The US Government Accountability Office report on the status of the loan:
www.gao.gov...




posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 07:00 AM
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Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
reply to post by jdub297
 


Wrong,

The loan was paid back sometime this past year :
www.factcheck.org...

A May 2011 report form The US Government Accountability Office report on the status of the loan:
www.gao.gov...



If I was bankrupt, I wish I could go to the bank, borrow $60,000 to pay for a $30,000 car then turn around and return the $30,000 I didn't need, and then claim I've become ultra responsible in terms of managing my finances. I'm doubting that the bank would lend me anything let alone 30 grand over what I could support with objective evidence as 'needed'.

Why was GM given billions and billions of dollars they 'didn't need' . . . tells me that the planning and set up of this whole bailout was a mere shell game as is this whole VOLT mess thing with bloated sales reports because the majority owner of GM is buying their own product. That's not sales . . . that's a damn book entry. It is somewhat similar to the whole 'default swap' mess . . . the crappy debt didn't go away when the banks insured then wrote it off, they just found a way to hide it and make it all look good.

The reality, folks, is that General Motors hasn't really changed a thing. They've still got a bloated beauracracy, a grossly overpaid management team and a whole operational arm that is solely dedicated to moving work off-shore.

And, in terms of operations, apart from gutting employment levels in North America, they've not changed a single thing in their operations systems.

Don't ask me how I know . . . .

Further, it really doesn't matter which side of the aisle they're sitting on in the House or the Senate, or from which bloated political pig farm the President comes . . . they're all just puppets with their strings being pulled by the same masters.

It is in their best interests to have folks such as us sitting around flinging turds at eachother trying to place blame instead of realizing that the whole political spectrum is nothinng more than a steaming mound of corrupt, greed-infested horse crap.



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 07:43 AM
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reply to post by GoalPoster
 


So instead of propping up an American company, based in America that employs Americans was wrong? To risk putting more then 30 Million (yes, that's how many jobs there are in America connected to the auto industry as that covers manufactueing plants, dealerships, places like Pep Boys and Autozone, repair facilities, whole colleges that specialize in transportation) out of work is not an option as we were not willing to have 1 out of every 6 Americans out of work. This ripple wouldn't've just stopped at GM, Ford and Chrysler but would've continued to ripple into companies like Western Star, Kenworth, Pierce Manufacturing, Osh Kosh, Force Protection, Peterbilt, Colet, E-One, American LaFrance, Autocar, International, Case IH, Tucker Terra, Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Norththorp-Grumman, airports, commercial shipping companies, private shipping companies, recycling companies, construction companies, heavy duty shipping and transportation companies, raw materials manufactueres and harvesters, farming communities and every single company that relies on and employs heavy machinery. That is how vast the entire US Automotive and Transportation Industry is! This would've eventually continued until it affected The US Dept Of Defense and even into The US Federal Govt itself.
edit on 22-12-2011 by TheImmaculateD1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 08:43 AM
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reply to post by jdub297
 


Not true because when we tried to write in legislation to ban a CEO of a company who was the recipient of a loan they threatened to move their operations overseas and to bankrupt the nation. Our hand was forced there hence the compromise. Same deal with the banks! They even tried to force GM to sell off The Renaissance Center Complex in Detroit where it's corporate offices are HQ'd at they had to be told no way as that would further cripple them by forcing them to spend even more money to relocate. The group I refer to as "they" is The Federal Reserve!

I have unique first hand knowledge of this as it was happening!
edit on 22-12-2011 by TheImmaculateD1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 10:24 AM
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reply to post by TheImmaculateD1
 


Didn't say anywhere anything about not bailing them out . . . merely stated that it seems rather peculiar that they would receive a set amount of money, only part of which was needed to 'see them through' while the rest somehow magically helped them 'repay' some of that loan.

It did, and still does strike me as rather odd that you could ask . . . no . . . BEG . . . for a loan and include in that loan some of the repayment so you don't really have to fix anything that got you in the mess in the first place.

Kinda like saying, We've run out of money to continue buggering ourselves up, so can you loan us some more so we can keep on keeping on, and add some extra so we can pretend to be repaying you and maybe we'll convince somebody somewhere that we're actually doing better so when our new IPO is out there, we'll get $33 a share following which when everyone realizes the crap we've pulled, it'll drop to nearly $20 a share."

Maybe I'm just a mental dwarf that looks way too far into silly little things in trying to assess whether or not something is worthy of in excess of $50 billion in our money.

Silly, silly me.

edit on 22-12-2011 by GoalPoster because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 11:00 AM
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reply to post by TheImmaculateD1
 


Since giving GM that free money they have continued with their slow move to shift production to places such as Mexico, where GM and Ford have been increasing operations and importing back to the USA.

Foreign car manufacturers such as Honda now employ more working Americans than GM, many foreign car companies such as Honda and Toyota use parts from the same factories that GM uses (of course somehow still managing a far superior product) and have expanded operations in the US at the same time American auto companies flee.

If you read my post on the first page you see the obvious: American made "hybrids" SUCK. The Volt is the biggest scam of all, idiotic idealistic progressive hipsters will certainly love one just to say they have one, but compared side by side, it's the single worst hybrid automobile on the market.



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 11:13 AM
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If the government took over the dairy industry milk would cost 100.00/gallon
Butter would cost 500.00/pound
and
Cheese would only be available to the "1%"


Nice find, OP.



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
reply to post by jdub297
 


Wrong,

The loan was paid back sometime this past year :
www.factcheck.org...

A May 2011 report form The US Government Accountability Office report on the status of the loan:
www.gao.gov...


Do you just insist on denying facts, or is something else wrong?

You are using an Obama agency's figures, I'm relying on honest, indepoendent fact-checkers at ProPublica, who have followed every tranch of $$ in and out.
Where is the Money? Eye on the Bailout Bailout Recipients

GM still owes $28,000,000,000 (51billion delivered, 23 billion returned)

We still own 26% of GM stock, which has dropped like a rock since the IPO.


quote.morningstar.com...

We have lost another $16,500,000,000 since we took ownership.

28,0 + 16,5 = $44.5 billion down the tubes!

You insist this is a success?

deny ignorance

jw



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by GoalPoster
 



Why was GM given billions and billions of dollars they 'didn't need' . . . tells me that the planning and set up of this whole bailout was a mere shell game as is this whole VOLT mess thing with bloated sales reports because the majority owner of GM is buying their own product. That's not sales . . . that's a damn book entry. It is somewhat similar to the whole 'default swap' mess . . . the crappy debt didn't go away when the banks insured then wrote it off, they just found a way to hide it and make it all look good.


The really sad thing is, the average buyer earns $170,000!

We are subsidizing a product for the 1%!

This stinks and makes absolutely no sense (except to the UAW.).

jw



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 01:09 PM
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Another glaring example of why government should not be in buisness picking winners or losers. The Citizenry of the United States should not be the unwitting funders of companies who were best left to reorginization.



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 01:13 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 

You know what a common term is for governments that do just that?

Fascist.

jw



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 01:23 PM
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When I see threads like this, it always reminds me of Tom Ogle...




posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by jdub297
You know what a common term is for governments that do just that?

Fascist.

jw


Exactly.

I was a big General Motors (Chevrolet) guy at one point. I refuse, just on principal, to even contenmplate, let alone purchase, a motor vehicle from this company. We have bankruptcy laws on the books for a reason, if we are going to continually circumvent the laws why bother having them. No business of any type should ever get a bailout from the government.



edit on 22-12-2011 by AugustusMasonicus because: Networkdude has no beer.



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 04:47 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


Make no mistake and have no illusion, none of the money was free and came contingent to keep Americans employed in America and to help get us off of oil.



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 04:49 PM
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reply to post by jdub297
 


It's being externally manipulated to kill GM as The SCUM does not want America to have a success story and when they make $1 Billion, the SCUM do not see one red cent.

All apart of the wholesale fleecing of America!

You should know the market's manipulated, have your co swear allegiance and your stock rises go against them it falls!

Little kid games!



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 06:22 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 




We have bankruptcy laws on the books for a reason, if we are going to continually circumvent the laws why bother having them. No business of any type should ever get a bailout from the government.


So Mote It Be Brother!!

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1
 



Make no mistake and have no illusion, none of the money was free and came contingent to keep Americans employed in America and to help get us off of oil.


Um.. it was free? It was a "capital infusion" where we took as collateral shares in the corporation.. which when we began selling we sold at a loss (why? good question.. no one knows.. probably because over paying for a defunct companies shares is a stupid idea..) Did it keep Americans employed? Sure did.. at the costs of tens of billions of dollars in bailouts, rebates, tax incentives, the God forsaken cash for clunkers and of course: Huge government fleet renewals which suddenly had a preference for GM vehicles. (Which is ironic considering the Gov switch to Toyotas and Fords not 5 years prior because of upkeep cost on crappy GM's.)

And help get America off oil? Read again: The Chevy Volt is the LEAST efficient hybrid on the market! You get a better deal with an imported 100% electric or a imported hybrid! For shorter commutes the Volt doesn't come anywhere near comparing to the Nissan Leaf. For longer commutes the average MPG doesn't come anywhere near the Toyota Prius. For price to MPG the Volt is over valued by $15,000 compared to the Prius. Soon every major car company will have an electric car that will kick the Volt's ugly arse. Mitsubishi is coming out with a new ultra cheap (cheapest on the market) $23,000 100% electric vehicle. Volt's range: 25-35 miles. Leaf's range: 60-110 miles. Mitsubishi's: 60-65. # the Volt. And now China is trying to import the Coda, an electric car that can go 90-120 miles.

The Volt doesn't compare. It has NOTHING to do with "getting America off foreign oil" .. because thanks to Japanese, Chinese, Koreans we are already being weened off oil. Soon, thanks to new advances and works by companies like Mitsubishi who are striving to bring EV's to the lower end of the price spectrum you'll be seeing them everywhere. And Volts will still suck.

Asian car companies are directed by engineers first. American car companies are directed by bureaucrats first.



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 07:06 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
It was a "capital infusion" where we took as collateral shares in the corporation.. which when we began selling we sold at a loss (why? good question.. no one knows.. probably because over paying for a defunct companies shares is a stupid idea..)...


Not to mention that the bond-holders got hosed. The Federal Government circumvented the bankruptcy laws and basically took the bond-holders rights of ownership and voided them. And before anyone feels that this was justified, keep in mind that the majority were institution owned which means that they helped fund your 401K, etc. via mutual funds and investment portfolios.



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 10:05 PM
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Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
reply to post by Rockpuck
 


Make no mistake and have no illusion, none of the money was free and came contingent to keep Americans employed in America and to help get us off of oil.


That is what Chapyer 11 was intended to do.

Obama bastardized the process, ignored the law on preferential creditors (retirement funds/bondhokders) and created an abomination that we continue to subsidize by the billions.

We will never recover at least $44,500,000,000; and maybe more once the stock bottoms out and it goes back into bankruptcy or another tailored "bailout."

deny ignorance

jw
edit on 22-12-2011 by jdub297 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 10:17 PM
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Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
reply to post by jdub297
 


It's being externally manipulated to kill GM as The SCUM does not want America to have a success story and when they make $1 Billion, the SCUM do not see one red cent.

All apart of the wholesale fleecing of America!

You should know the market's manipulated, have your co swear allegiance and your stock rises go against them it falls!

Little kid games!


Talk about "little kid games!" You are living proof.

Does your mom know you're trolling on her computer again?

If the market is being manipulated, it is by the Treasury and the Feds who have kept the stock of otherwise banktupt companies at the top of the market, and in which Obama owns huge interests at our expense: Bank of America, AIG, CITI.

If you want to talk about saving or keeping American jobs, look at Ford.

In early 2009 Ford and GM were both trading in the $2.00/share range and losing market share. GM chose a "tailored bankruptcy" (as did Chrysler).

Ford chose the capitalist method of debt finance, and struggled on its own to rebuild and restructure.

Near mid-2010, Ford had risen to $14.00/share, and GM was still being nursed at taxpayer expense by the Obama administration. Its former investors received $0.00/share for their investments, its bondholders received $0.17/dollar for their "investment" and in vio;lation of 250-year old bankruptcy law and the Constitution.

You really deserve no responses to the idiocy you post, but I just had to show everyone else how you have no udea what you are saying.

deny ignorance

jw
edit on 22-12-2011 by jdub297 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 12:25 AM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


A "capital infusion" is just that, a loan. the tens of billions of costs we've gotten about 75% of that back so no tens of billions.

85 mpg combined does not make it the worst PHEV on the road. Why the flip is everyone so vehemently against this green push when it comes to eliminating our dependance on oil? Why is it that everytime we make an attempt it gets slammed? Who are people protecting? The planet or big oil?

The 2012 msrp for the Volt is expected to fall from about $41,000 - $37,500 with the ultimate goal to bottom out at $25,000 by 2016.

Are we not supposed to have an American made and produced electric car?

What the flip is this massive hatred for every damn thing this nation does to help itself. BTW, GM is using the balance to develop something called the 2013 Chevrolet Spark which is the first true followup to the 1997 GM EV1 as it's a full on electric. GM has shifted it's focus off of gas guzzling suv''s and trucks and are now putting the focus on electrics and hybrids. We would've been considerably further along now but thanks to Big Oil and The SCUM we are now playing catchup instead of being the full on leader.





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