The Occupation has Failed

reply to post by SLAYER69


Nah, you know what I was trying to say.
Racists did show up at Tea Party rallies, that's a fact. Does it make all Tea Partiers racist? No.
Just to be clear.

reply to post by Kali74


But here is the Difference.

You wont find too many ATS Tea Party supporters bending over backwards in a near Superhuman contortionist maneuver in an attempt to Justify, Deny and or make excuses for their actions or activities like you do by ATS OWS supporters for all the Communists and others etc etc etc who show up at OWS protests.

Now do you?

reply to post by SLAYER69


I don't really see that. I see people responding explaining that that is not the majority, but rather than being met with fairness they are met with attacks that they are liars. I have stated in many threads that that is the minority of Occupy members and made the same point that there were racists at TP but I don't think that of all of them.

I really don't see excuses. I don't see bending over backwards. I do see uninformed attacks on Occupy protesters by members here even when explanations are given.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Once upon a time, yes, it was pretty easy to find such. Also this site, especially anything to do with politics, is dominated by the right wing/conservative at least in terms of posting. There's been a vast amount of wrong information about Occupy, should we not seek to correct it (not that it's read anyway...)? So you can call it near super-human twisting into pretzels if you wish, I'll call it being accurate and denying ignorance.

reply to post by StarPeace


Wow, another person who seems to have missed 99% of what's been happening in his own country.

Everything you've stated there is incorrect.

When the $ collapses, perhaps we could refer all those millions of people who are made unemployed and homeless to you, and you can explain to them why the Occupy movement was such an "inconvenience" to your privileged existence. God forbid anyone actually stands up for the people of your country, especially if they irritate you so much.

Are you a banker by any chance?

Originally posted by MemoryShock

Originally posted by seabag
Oh yeah??

How many self-proclaimed “occupiers” hold public office? Pelosi cries every day about how the Tea Party is messing things up in Washington! What impact has OWS made?

That is your marker point for success? A movement that obfuscates the political environment even more than it already was? Please...the Tea Party is nothing more than an extension of the Republican Party and does nothing to address the issue of corporate manipulations...

Be skeptical as you will...either the Occupy movement will continue or it won't...but we have already made an impact and there is nothing to suggest that it won't continue despite everything I have read here...

When you are minority vote you can’t do much more than obstruct and plead. I know you’re trying your best to tow the line but…really??

After five national bus tours and several regional tours that hosted over 300 rallies, the Tea Party Express has become nationally recognized for making a difference in critical elections. There is now a platform where established and aspiring politicians alike could present their conservative qualifications in front of Tea Party members who were poised for action.

In 2010, the tea party movement’s power was felt as incumbent Democrats and Republicans alike were replaced with Tea Party endorsed conservatives. The Tea Party Express played a critical role in the unprecedented midterm electoral victories and key Special elections, devoting millions of dollars and innovative campaign tactics to bring victory to conservative candidates. Over 200 Tea Party Express endorsed candidates went on to win their election and now have become tireless advocates of our six core principles in Washington DC.

With conservatives in control of the House and poised to take over the Senate in 2012, the Tea Party Express has targeted President Barack Obama for defeat. In September 2011, after completing the coast-to-coast Reclaiming America – Presidential Bus Tour, the Tea Party Express partnered with CNN for the historic Tea Party Express Republican Presidential Debate. The Tea Party Express was joined by hundreds of independent Tea Party groups representing every state in the union – and together challenged the top eight candidates to prove why they deserve the support of the movement.

The Tea Party Express has proven to be a deciding factor in sending conservatives to the House and the Senate.

link

By the way, this thread is about OWS! Will you provide the OWS list of accomplishments??

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
I really don't see excuses. I don't see bending over backwards. I do see uninformed attacks on Occupy protesters by members here even when explanations are given.

First off

Many on the fence were simply asking from those who supported the Movement to clarify a few things. Which they failed to do miserably. If the OWS message is out then why doesnt the vast majority of Americans [not to mention the rest of the 7 Billion people on the planet] know clearly what their message is?

They've had not days or weeks but months now to get a clear message out.

Secondly
I've made my POV clear HERE.
In it I asked others to provide us with their opinions and thoughts.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Kali74

 

But here is the Difference.

You wont find too many ATS Tea Party supporters bending over backwards in a near Superhuman contortionist maneuver in an attempt to Justify, Deny and or make excuses for their actions or activities like you do by ATS OWS supporters for all the Communists and others etc etc etc who show up at OWS protests.

Now do you?

No, because, surprisingly, having various political ideals and perceptions is not illegal, like calling for assassination. Believing in another political system is not akin to calling for the death of a president.
OWS supports free discussion, about legal subjects. Last time I checked, believing in communism, capitalism, fascism, or any other poxy ism wasn't ILLEGAL.

This place truly astounds me sometimes.
And we wonder why ATS is mocked? With people who on the one hand scram about their right to believe what they want to believe, while calling for the oppression of people who believe in differing political systems to them.

Hypocrites.

reply to post by seabag


I already gave you a sampling of their accomplishments and it is more positive than the Tea Party did.
They have actually hurt the government with the people they helped get into office. The people that fooled them into thinking they were on their side.

They inspired a great amendment to the constitution to be put forth (which it has been be Ted Deutch I believe).
They inspired the Eugene Oregon City council to allocate more funds to help the under privileged.
Brought attention to excessive force that police are willing to use on peaceful protesters.

also:

1. Put the question of economic inequality in the center of national discourse for the first time since the 1960’s, even though such inequality has been growing dramatically for the last 20 years. The vocabulary the movement has developed to describe this inequality, “the 1 % and the 99%,” have become a permanent part of our political discourse and has focused great attention on how the maldistribution of wealth has undermined democracy and eroded the living standards of the great majority of Americans.

2. Called attention to the stifling impact of student loan debt on young college, professional and trade school graduates who face the double whammy of a stagnant job market and crippling debt. The attention given to this issue inspired President Obama to marginally ease the loan burden of current recipients. In the future, it might even prompt a radical reconfiguration of the debt or a major program of loan forgiveness.

3. Created political pressures that prompted the postponement of a decision by President Obama to begin construction of the controversial Keystone XL natural gas pipeline.

4. Forced New York Governor Cuomo, whose promise not to renew the state’s millionaires' tax drew national attention, to negotiate with state legislators a tax increase in the higher brackets to go into effect next year, which will prevent 2 billion dollars in anticipated budget cuts.

5. Inspired a wide variety of actions to prevent foreclosures and evictions and to bring relief to beleaguered home owners and tenants, including preventing the eviction of a 103 year old woman in Atlanta, forcing a Harlem landlord to restore heat to tenants, and occupying a foreclosed house in the East New York Section of Brooklyn.

6. Put the undemocratic character of many education reform policies, particularly school closings, under much greater scrutiny, creating pressures on policy makers that will make these closings much more difficult to implement without more consultation and input from parents, students, teachers and community members.

7. Given the labor movement a new vocabulary to challenge attacks on collective bargaining and union recognition, providing added ammunition to the successful campaign to defeat anti-collective bargaining bills in the states of Ohio and New Hampshire.

8. Focused attention on the issue of police brutality and the militarization of urban police forces in ways that reinforces longstanding complaints of police misconduct and abuse in Black and Latino communities.

9. Helped create a political climate which persuaded the Philadelphia District Attorney to remove the death sentence from human rights activist and journalist Mumia Abu Jamal.

10. Sparked protests against tuition increases at the nation's public universities, especially in the California public colleges and the City University of New York (CUNY).

11. Closed down several West Coast ports in support of striking port workers.

Yeah.. remember all the arguments of how Occupy was hurting the port workers? That was because the news wants you to oppose them. The news didn't mention that the port workers were striking and that Occupy was supporting their strike.

Originally posted by detachedindividual
This place truly astounds me sometimes.
And we wonder why ATS is mocked? With people who on the one hand scram about their right to believe what they want to believe, while calling for the oppression of people who believe in differing political systems to them.

Well maybe if you opened your mind more and your mouth less you might actually learn a thing or two.

Just a thought.

Hypocrites.

Back at you

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
I really don't see excuses. I don't see bending over backwards. I do see uninformed attacks on Occupy protesters by members here even when explanations are given.

First off

Many on the fence were simply asking from those who supported the Movement to clarify a few things. Which they failed to do miserably. If the OWS message is out then why doesnt the vast majority of Americans [not to mention the rest of the 7 Billion people on the planet] know clearly what their message is?

They've had not days or weeks but months now to get a clear message out.

Secondly
I've made my POV clear HERE.
In it I asked others to provide us with their opinions and thoughts.

So they camp on Wall St, walk around with placards stating the details of the economic divide, demand that corporations be kept out of government, repeatedly state on air for every broadcaster willing to discuss the truth that they are protesting for change in the political system as it refers to corporate interests... and you STILL don't understand what the problem is?

I'm not buying it. No population is seriously that braindead. I've had my doubts about Americans before, but even I would not begin to suggest that the masses are really that stupid.

Personally, I think this is an excuse often put out by people who don't want to accept what they are protesting about. They're the same people who will ignore the statistical facts and repeat the tired "commie" line and "dirty hippy" insult to cover up for the fact that they have no real argument.

People can suggest it's over all they like. But there will be a whole lot of us standing on the side lines watching when the economy truly tanks and you're all in the same boat, protesting your asses off to save your child's education or your right to eat three meals a day.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by detachedindividual
This place truly astounds me sometimes.
And we wonder why ATS is mocked? With people who on the one hand scram about their right to believe what they want to believe, while calling for the oppression of people who believe in differing political systems to them.

Well maybe if you opened your mind more and your mouth less you might actually learn a thing or two.

Just a thought.

Hypocrites.

Back at you

I'll say what I want, when I want. I don't need the permission of someone like you to give my opinion, thanks.

And you haven't responded. Do you disagree that you are attacking others for having a political belief that you don't agree with? Do none of those protesters have the right to believe in communism just as you have the right to believe in capitalism?

reply to post by SLAYER69


They have given it so many times it's ridiculous. Apparently you guys aren't listening. I have outlined it at least 50 times on this website.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
I see people responding explaining that that is not the majority, but rather than being met with fairness they are met with attacks that they are liars.

When OWS was at a peak that's not what I saw

I saw people saying no they were not violent
Then you show a source/link
The same people say, Oh well what other choice do they have?

Take the word violent as a variable
sometimes it was violent, sometimes something else

Originally posted by detachedindividual
So they camp on Wall St, walk around with placards stating the details of the economic divide, demand that corporations be kept out of government, repeatedly state on air for every broadcaster willing to discuss the truth that they are protesting for change in the political system as it refers to corporate interests... and you STILL don't understand what the problem is?

You left out the vast majority of Americans. You know.. The Real 99%

Which they claim to represent but honestly do not.

I'm not buying it. No population is seriously that braindead. I've had my doubts about Americans before, but even I would not begin to suggest that the masses are really that stupid.

So...

You're not American?
Outside agitator?

Personally, I think this is an excuse often put out by people who don't want to accept what they are protesting about. They're the same people who will ignore the statistical facts and repeat the tired "commie" line and "dirty hippy" insult to cover up for the fact that they have no real argument.

Eyes wide shut?
Not paying attention to who are some of OWS bedfellows eh?

People can suggest it's over all they like. But there will be a whole lot of us standing on the side lines watching when the economy truly tanks and you're all in the same boat, protesting your asses off to save your child's education or your right to eat three meals a day.

I'm sorry but you sound like an Apocalyptic Cheerleader. You want the whole # house to go up in flames so you could in some self absorbed grotesque orgy of self gratification say

"See I was right!"

pffft.

Originally posted by detachedindividual
With people who on the one hand scram about their right to believe what they want to believe, while calling for the oppression of people who believe in differing political systems to them.

So now having a differing opinion is "oppressing" someone?

Where has anyone called for "oppression"?

I have seen where people called for free associations - i.e. if you don't like communists, then don't go to a rally where they are embraced - but that falls a bit short of "oppression".

Doesn't it?

It looked to me more like the point being made was that you're not going to attract a lot of people who aren't socialists by embracing socialist ideals. That doesn't mean you CAN'T embrace those ideals, it only means you shouldn't expect to garner support from those who don't.

I swear we have been have the same long argument for 3+ months now. I don't know how people can devote so much time to something they despise or better yet something they claim isn't even a factor lol.

Originally posted by detachedindividual

People can suggest it's over all they like. But there will be a whole lot of us standing on the side lines watching when the economy truly tanks and you're all in the same boat, protesting your asses off to save your child's education or your right to eat three meals a day.

I for one do not have a "right" to eat 3 meals a day. If that were so, I'd probably be eating them.

Are you seriously suggesting that if I'm having a hard time finding things to eat, I'm going to be wasting my time protesting in lieu of looking for food?

reply to post by nenothtu


You absolutely do have the right to eat three meals a day. You have the right to provide yourself with such by any legal means that you can. Dollars or physical labor, sadly those options aren't available to all.

Originally posted by detachedindividual
I'll say what I want, when I want. I don't need the permission of someone like you to give my opinion, thanks.

Oh please....

Stop trying to be so melodramatic. It doesn't fly well with your rhetoric. Suggesting that you open your mind to others while calling them hypocrites for not believing in what you do is not telling you what to think or say..

Get over it.
Nobody is holding a gun to your head and preventing you from expressing yourself

And you haven't responded. Do you disagree that you are attacking others for having a political belief that you don't agree with? Do none of those protesters have the right to believe in communism just as you have the right to believe in capitalism?

Attacking?

No.

Am I done with pointing out the facts and expressing MYSELF?

Nope, not by a long shot.

Now, Point out exactly where I said not to allow the "Communist" to protest? I expressed my opinion that if OWS wanted to gain more support they need to field a dog with less fleas. Why does that offend you?

Big Communist supporter?