The Occupation has Failed

Originally posted by jlv70
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

I'm the one falling for tired propaganda?

That's hilarious!

Just feel free to deny the truth when it's right there in front of you, especially when it doesn't fit your narrative, and what narrative would that be? Defending the thieves who sacked this country from any and all opposition?

No, I am not defending the thieves. The entire OWS movement is a push to remove our Republican form of govt to a "direct democracy". I've been reading the tea leaves of their own demands and I can see the mostly socialist push there. I guess you cannot. If you think I have no right to be against people who are demanding the End of Capitalism because their socialist mentors told them Capitalism was evil, then you clearly don't understand the real meaning of free speech in the Bill of Rights.
The fact that the biggest financial manipulator George Soros backs OWS should be a sign to you that it's a front to get rid of Capitalism, not to end his clear manipulation of markets, which is not what true free enterprise is about.

You should know that it is historical fact that international bankers and industrialists have backed communism the whole time because they profit from it, but that doesn't change the fact that communism supports the abolition of private property and individual rights. Do your homework and find out what Soros is and what his motives are.
Here, I'll help you out a bit

The fingerprints of the preeminent funder of the activist Left today, George Soros, are all over the anti-American “Occupy Wall Street” movement.
The seventh-wealthiest person in America (net worth: $22 billion), Soros has publicly embraced Occupy Wall Street and financially supports a left-wing group that is funneling money to the movement.
As I note in my new book Subversion Inc., this Communist sympathizer co-founded the ultra-secretive Democracy Alliance​, a billionaires’ club that wants to radically transform America. He has said that European-style socialism “is exactly what we need now” and favors American decline. Soros, a currency manipulator with an insider trading conviction, praises Red China effusively, saying the totalitarian nation has “a better functioning government than the United States.”
The nonprofit organization that has taken Soros’s money is the Alliance for Global Justice. It is managing donations benefiting the anarchists, socialists, communists, empty-headed Naomi Klein​ followers, and hippies now occupying Zuccotti Park in lower Manhattan. As of Nov. 2, the Alliance reported $206,000 in donations earmarked for Occupy Wall Street. The Wall Street Journal estimates Occupy Wall Street has taken in a grand total of $500,000 so far but that doesn’t appear to take into account non-monetary donations such as food, power generators, clothing, shoes, camping gear, and sleeping bags.
Alliance for Global Justice is a “fiscal sponsor” which means that it serves as a financial clearinghouse for causes that haven’t incorporated themselves as nonprofit organizations. Donors write a check to the Alliance and are then able to deduct the donations from their income tax. Fiscal sponsors take a percentage of donations as administrative fees and then pass on the rest to the cause favored by the donor.
Alliance for Global Justice has accepted grants from Soros’s charity, the Open Society Institute ($100,000 since 2004) and from the radical Tides Foundation ($60,000 since 2004) which allows high-profile donors to give secretly to radical causes.
A hotbed of anti-American activity, the Alliance takes money from the most extreme left-wing philanthropies operating in America today. The Alliance has accepted grants from the (pro-Fidel Castro) Arca Foundation ($185,000 since 2001), General Service Foundation ($165,000 since 2001), and Foundation for Deep Ecology ($30,000 since 2000), a group of environmental fundamentalists who regard human beings as the number one threat to planet earth.

frontpagemag.com...

If OWS was or is still concerned where was it when the Tax deal was in jeopardy? OH ya hibernating for the winter, when most laws go into effect HR1540 the TAX deal, 2 months but hay it see 2 months of less tax.

reply to post by bekod

In all fairness to Occupy in the thought and hope that it may reconstitute into something workable across the nation come Spring, they have been pretty throroughly beat down and broken up by law enforcement efforts many here have both called for and applauded. To some degree, I'm among that crowd myself. We can't then turn around and ridicule those who still believe and really want to accomplish something for being in a state of disarray at the moment and 'hibernating'. After all...We called for the very things that largely put them in that state.

Right, wrong or otherwise...We have to at least try and keep it real and honest on all this.. Their current state of affairs isn't without some pretty hard core outside pressures.

reply to post by nenothtu

I'm hoping I'm wrong, too. It's not set it stone - it doesn't have to be that way. I'm only going on the history that these things generally have played out with in most places. As long as tempers continue to flare, and people continue to attack the "opposition" thinking they are defending their own side, the probability of it happening that way is much higher.

I'm not one usually caught up in paranoia or hysteria...I keep saying that lately :-)

it must mean something that I keep saying it - I don't know whether or not to trust my own perceptions anymore

I find myself living in a time and place where I hear people saying things I never believed they would say. I see them embrace ideas that would have seemed impossible just a few short years ago. And now I hear people agreeing to things that are unthinkable. If they aren't out and out agreeing - they are silent - which is just as bad

These are difficult times for many - so much is uncertain - there's been wrong doing - but we seem to have no recourse. We have enemies - we don't have enemies - who knows anymore...so, I'll resist quoting POGO here :-)

never say never I guess - as I said - I've been surprised before

Thank you. here I was, thinking we're ideological adversaries!

'Live and let live.' It greases the wheels of civilization - we agree on that :-)

and ideology just muddies up our thinking and slows us all down I think - better to stay loose

and as objective as possible

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


We are in a time of flux, a time of change. Lot's of people can "feel" it, but they all have different explanations or rationalizations for what is going on - probably mostly colored through the lens of personal experiences they have already had. Some see it as a "spiritual awakening", some see it as some sort of "evolution of mankind", some see it as hard times coming, some hear the drums of war just over the horizon. It may be all of those in some combination, or none. The Tea Party was a reaction to it, and so is OWS.

There's just no telling what the reality of it will be until we get through to the other side. It makes for anxiety and uncertainty. The only thing we can really do is roll with the punches and ride on through, to be fluid and ready to jump in any direction.

These times come along every now and then, and we just happen to be living through one. It's just the luck of the draw. We can't stop or stem it, so the only thing to do is ride it, and see where it goes. The only way to steer it is to grab the wheel and hang on tight - it might be a hell of a ride!

reply to post by Wrabbit2000
I said it before I'll say it again, protest DC not wall street , who is more responsible; The one asking for the hand out, or the one giving it? answer this and you will know who to put the real blame on.

reply to post by bekod


I've said it before and I'll say it again they are protesting/occupying DC. I think I said in this thread alone at least 10 times, god knows how many in other bash threads lol.
Happy Holidays

someone made a good point... where was OWS during the last three major things that have occured.

SOPPA, Censorship and Tax cuts...

Oh yeah gone home cuzz Soros told em too!

reply to post by DrNotforhire


Protesting SOPA
Protesting the NDAA

What'd you do to protect our freedoms?

Originally posted by Godhood
reply to post by ThePublicEnemyNo1

 

How many times do we repeat deny ignorance on this site how much do we repeat the media deceives us at every level. But yet i see people on this thread really either showing there true colors or being ignorant and complacent with whats going on. You all may be able to sit and type your little rants and raves about how they effected your work week and bothered you and your day. You all sound just like the bankers and the rich elitist's that dictate our lives and how we should live. You don't sound like people who want to stand up for yourselves or your rights so while those of you who think its all over and OWS didn't accomplish $h!t you need to STOP watching the dam corrupt news on it and participate or at least check it out yourself. The media portray's it as a bunch of loonies but they do that to Ron Paul also so go figure wake up people stop turning on each other and work together as a whole we can achieve our goals together divided we give them hope. Love you all Merry Christmas

edit on 22-12-2011 by Godhood because: (no reason given)

edit on 22-12-2011 by Godhood because: (no reason given)

What rant and rave...where did I mention effecting "my work week" or anything you put in your post directed at me? Whatever misguided one, you can call me a million names and pretend that I said things that I didn't say all you want...you can even sit here and pretend to know me, but the fact is, you don't know me. I guess the images I posted got to you and good, that WAS my intention.

I just have one thing to say to you....learn how to comprehend a message before you go putting words in my mouth or anyone's mouth for that matter. Or at least direct your "rant" to the appropriate individual.

Call me what you like...doesn't change the fact that the OWS movement (for lack of better terms) was an Epic Fail...like I actually did say. As far as the words of Malcolm X, I guess you're so busy being upset that you missed the point.


Oh well...

reply to post by bekod

On moving the whole thing out of cities and into Washington, I couldn't agree more. I've said for quite sometime now that in comparison, Egypt didn't bring down Mubarak from the villages but from Cairo. So it must be here for serious political change. Consensus Reached.

Originally posted by PapaKrok
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

You have no idea what you are talking about. Kinda invalidates your arguement.
Keep on doing what you are doing, you will not survive the spring. Time to grow up my friend and actually see what is going on around you. Good luck. Hope you have enough humility to ask for help when you need it.

edit on 22-12-2011 by PapaKrok because: (no reason given)

No, what you are hoping is that I suffer because I don't support socialism. I can see right through your bs.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


Hard not to sympathize with these people as they have been dumbed down such that they have no idea what a disaster socialism has been when it has been tried. My favorite example is the pilgrims as retold by Rush. The original can be read in the book by Wiliam Bradford see text and link below:



From Bradfords Book

www.archive.org...

Bradford did not show favor to the industrial
policy of holding all things in common, which was
at first attempted and which, because of its early
apostolic connection, was supposed to be under divine
sanction. If he tolerated the idea at first, he gives no
sign of approval ; and when it was abandoned he ob-
served : "The experience that was had in this comone
course and condition, tried sundrie years, and that
amongst godly and sober men, may well evince the
vanitie of that conceite of Plato & other ancients,
applauded by some of later times; that y® taking
away of propertie, and bringing in comunitie mto a
comone wealth, would make them happy and flourish-
ing ; as if they were wiser then God.'*

This far sighted judgment applied equally to the
communistic concept of that time and the present
idea of a short working day, a living wage whether
earned or not, and an absolute democratic control
over all individual rights, which is the perversion
of civil liberty, and more potent than despotism be-
cause imposed by a multitude.

Under private ownership of land, which super-
seded the common stock plan, there was better in-
centive to toil, and the Grovemor with pleasure ob-
served that even the women and children went willing-
ly afield. Assignments came to be made of one acre
to a family, near the palisaded hamlet for conven-



60 WiUunn Bradford of Plymouth

ience and better security. But on petition of the
planters, Bradford directed that the allotments
should be for continuous use, rather than for one
year as heretofore. This encouraged those who had
achieved good success on their area, to go forward
still in their agricultural accomplishments. They
raised the more, as soon as numbers and strength al-
lowed, because they found a corn market among the
half-hundred fishing vessels which annually visited
the northern coasts.

www.democraticunderground.com...

The original contract the Pilgrims had entered into with their merchant-sponsors in London called for everything they produced to go into a common store, and each member of the community was entitled to one common share. All of the land they cleared and the houses they built belong to the community as well. Bradford, who had become the new governor of the colony, recognized that this form of collectivism was as costly and destructive to the Pilgrims as that first harsh winter, which had taken so many lives.

"He decided to take bold action. Bradford assigned a plot of land to each family to work and manage, thus turning loose the power of the marketplace. That's right. Long before Karl Marx was even born, the Pilgrims had discovered and experimented with what could only be described as socialism. And what happened? It didn't work! Surprise, surprise, huh? What Bradford and his community found was that the most creative and industrious people had no incentive to work any harder than anyone else, unless they could utilize the power of personal motivation! But while most of the rest of the world has been experimenting with socialism for well over a hundred years – trying to refine it, perfect it, and re-invent it – the Pilgrims decided early on to scrap it permanently. What Bradford wrote about this social experiment should be in every schoolchild's history lesson If it were, we might prevent much needless suffering in the future."

reply to post by Kali74
oh you mean they need more than this occupydc.org... Do like they did in NY or LA or on the docks er ports, then yes that might mean something, but then they just might have the NG waiting for them. NDAA will be passed HR2055 passed that is the funding bill for it so yea this spring will be the spring that sprung the OWS

Occupy can never fail, it has shown the feelings of the Citizens, it can not be un-done or forgotten, it is just experiancing growing pain, slowing and stopping to regroup. It may emerge as a horse of a different color, but the tenants will still be there, the outrage at corperations and those manipulating the 99%. It is far from over. Would you have thought that the people of the middle east would have been satisfied to just pich a bich for a couple weeks and then all go home? NO, it turned out very differently, and a new form of government has evolved. Some people will never 'let it go', and I think you can count on a resurgence when the weather becomes better suited for an occupation.

Two quick facts for you:

1. The Tea Party had over 2 years to put someone in office.

You are comparing apples to oranges. OWS has only been around for (count em) 100 days now. Now ask yourself, during these 100 days, what has happened to the occupy movement? How many people were tear gassed? Maced? Beaten? How many were arrested for protesting? During these 100 days, how many bankers who robbed the American people blind were arrested?

2. So, you want to say OWS is filled with terrible people. Do you remember this guy, Tea Party?

At least OWS never raped children... Just saying. You may want to think before you talk down on OWS again, using the Tea Party as your argument.

reply to post by Vizzle

The Tea Party HAS put people into office and it's been at least marginally effective. Boehner has been heard to lament his having to deal with the freshman TP people more than once. It's what is making him and his ilk something less than popular among those who would once have supported him blindly for the (r) next to his name.

In pointing to one bad actor on the TP side, you open a can of worms I'd almost call bottomless at this point. Do you really want to go there as a tactic to protect Occupy and OWS in as general a set of terms as you use to attack the right? Bad idea...if you ask me, but I won't say more on that. I shouldn't need to by now.

I've never really condemned OWS/Occupy protesters themselves. They are good, decent and energetic people. I may not agree with everything, but if we wait until we all agree, out children's 4-5th generation down will still be debating on holographic ether chips or whatever they have by then. The problem was only in how they tossed the criminals they attracted. The Tea Party attracted them to. It didn't make TP protesters wrong and it doesn't make OWS wrong on that basis alone. Indeed.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by Vizzle

 

The Tea Party HAS put people into office and it's been at least marginally effective. Boehner has been heard to lament his having to deal with the freshman TP people more than once. It's what is making him and his ilk something less than popular among those who would once have supported him blindly for the (r) next to his name.

You misunderstood my comment there. I was acknowledging that accomplishment. Was stating that TP had over 2 years to accomplish this. People keep saying "put someone in office". It's like we have to remind people "Uh, we have only been around 100 days as of today"

In pointing to one bad actor on the TP side, you open a can of worms I'd almost call bottomless at this point. Do you really want to go there as a tactic to protect Occupy and OWS in as general a set of terms as you use to attack the right? Bad idea...if you ask me, but I won't say more on that. I shouldn't need to by now.

Just pointing out that the TP had its share of characters as well. People seem to forget that. I remember the names the TP was called in the media. How the TP was full of "wingnuts and crazies". Though while none of us are perfect on either side, not all of us are criminals, and a majority of ALL of us want to see a better United States. One that we can be proud of again, because at this point I am embarrassed by the hypocrisy of our Govt, how they cater to big business instead of protecting the people, and the warmongering (now Iran is responsible for 9/11, really?) It is funny how people forget the same media smear tactics they are using on OWS, they also used on the TP until it was co-opted/purchased by the Koch Bros. and effectively silenced. George Soros tried the same thing with OWS. If you follow the trail, GS --> MoveOn.org --> RebuildTheDream.org. rebuild the dream was being pushed by VanJones on TV hardcore as being representative of OWS. When OWS shut that attempt down, is when you saw Zuccotti Park get raided, Oakland get tear gassed, and a lot of other camps (in the span of a week mind you, after conference calls) all get shut down.

I've never really condemned OWS/Occupy protesters themselves. They are good, decent and energetic people. I may not agree with everything, but if we wait until we all agree, out children's 4-5th generation down will still be debating on holographic ether chips or whatever they have by then.

I totally agree. I would actually love more involvement in OWS from people such as yourself. It is my belief that the more people that are involved in attempting to stop our out of control (yes, read SOPA, NDAA) the better. I wish that TP/OWS/everyone else wakes up, stops seeing things as Right/Left/Repub/Dem, opens their eyes and sees that we are being used by our govt and by corporations.

The problem was only in how they tossed the criminals they attracted. The Tea Party attracted them to. It didn't make TP protesters wrong and it doesn't make OWS wrong on that basis alone. Indeed.

I had to split that last paragraph, as this deserved a separate response. One thing the TP did not have to deal with that OWS did and still is dealing with, which is something we brought on ourselves with the encampments, is the crazies/homeless/druguse issue. What I will now tell you is something, as a street medic for Occupy Oakland, I witnessed with my own eyes and ears. We had cops and social workers TELLING homeless/addicts to go to the Oakland encampment. To camp there. It saved the city money and resources for us to provide things like food and shelter to these people. I found it highly irresponsible of the police dept and the city to encourage drug users and homeless people to go to the camp in front of city hall, instead of to a soup kitchen or to a shelter. The city was partially responsible for the conditions that it helped create by doing this. I have been told by other medics in NY (we keep in contact) that they had the same issue at zuccotti park.

Other things that were not reported. A lot of the rapes and attempted rapes that did happened, OWSers turned these people over to the cops, if not right away, when they were spotted later. It just happened in Berkeley the other day. Attempted rape, girl went straight to the cops and guy is now in jail. Unfortunately this is the world we live in, with sick @$#% that do stuff like this. It happens every day, at an OWS camp, at a bar, on the street, on a college campus, all over the world. every day. What you should be focusing on instead, is how many rapes there werent at all of these camps, considering all the "criminals" that were there. It is all media spin, which I hope by now people on ATS have the ability to see through.

Look forward to talking to you some more, maybe we can fix the world together =)

Originally posted by DrNotforhire
someone made a good point... where was OWS during the last three major things that have occured.

SOPPA, Censorship and Tax cuts...

Oh yeah gone home cuzz Soros told em too!

And here, I would have thought it was because OWS told Soros NO, you cant co-opt us for the failure that is the dem. party. I would have thought it was because we were arrested, tear gassed, beaten, and forcibly moved out of our protest locations with police violence. We are still out and about, and are still marching against these very things. Just had an Anti NDAA and SOPA march in San Francisco the other day. Seems like you may want to read just a little bit more before speaking out on a subject you apparently know nothing about.

reply to post by Vizzle

I'll save the quotes in the interest of space and proximity on the thread. It's kinda hard to miss what I'm replying to here.

You're right, I did misunderstand where you were coming from...and it may make the Gods of ATS stop in sheer shock to hear a member do it, but I'm going so far as to apologize. I'm so used to either side being 100% for their own and 100% against the other...and so discouraged from finding others who are willing to see compromises between right and left..that I seem to have missed a like minded person right in from of me here. lol.... My bad.

Street Medic in Oakland huh? Well, no one can suggest you haven't 'been there and done that' for earning your place in sharing whatever opinions you have. I was Safety Committee in St Louis while I was staying there but it was a quiet and peaceful R&R camp compared to Oakland and OWS proper. I'm sure we saw some of the same issues though. If only the ideal can carry forward with a sober and realistic assessment of what problems did/DO still exist and how to simply deal with them instead of dealing over, around, under and any other way but ending them.

There may be hope... There really may. ATS has you, me, Kali and a number of others here on both sides of Occupy who have expressed the sincere desire to see collaboration of the two sides and even a willingness to join it if such a thing could happen. I know I'd come back into the movement with everything I could bring if only it had openness to working with all sides...and the right, open to working with them. Oh well...

Thanks for the reminder that not everyone is polarized to the point of near civil war. Merry Xmas.