The Occupation has Failed

Originally posted by Unknown Soldier

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by Unknown Soldier

 

The demand for peer reviewed articles was silly. What is this, medical research?

No it is a demand to have something of substance such as real journalism. Not opinions inter laced with opinions, blog spot article with some slack jawed self proclaimed expert on social issues or some kid with a ged. This is a method often used in disseminating disinformation you see .. something of fruition. often the lunatic fringe recoils at the idea of critical thinking like here and now.

edit on 23-12-2011 by Unknown Soldier because: (no reason given)

So now we have to use mainstream journalistic articles? I thought that whole MSM thing was what people like you are struggling against. Now you want peer reviewed journalism on OWS. That's just priceless.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

Plenty of left-leaners are mad at Obama. They just think he is not left enough. But you are right, I don't know you and you don't know me.

I stay away from politics it is poisonous. I stopped watching all the media news networks years ago all together. Began to think out side the box. Started to think for myself. Politics is counter productive. You will not find me in the political discussion arena here either. It's nothing short of a mental masturbation switching off hands . Neither side is doing anything to correct our problems and neither side is working for the taxpayer "it;s employer" at all. Our politicians need to be terminated for insubordination the whole lot, left right. up down all of em!

They along with the supporters and enablers of both make my brain sad, Make me throw up a little in the back of my mouth and make my almost physically sick at the sight of them. That's where i am coming from my friend.

Originally posted by Unknown Soldier
reply to post by sonnny1

 

You and Kalle have a lot in common,and No,its NOT out of context,but continue to brush it in BIG strokes,to fit the agenda. I gave you proof in his own words ,many times.

No i really cant relate to the guy that much actually, if i were a co founder I would have done things much differently. The fed would have been target number one. That was another air ball from you, characterizing me is not going to benefit your argument.

I'm guessing you know what projection is?

I appreciate that you are frustrated with the status quo. I cannot say that I know what is in store for us, but if OWS demands are met, I'm sure it would be the death knell of the Republic.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


Yes i know what projection is and?


second line

Originally posted by Unknown Soldier
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

Yes i know what projection is and?


second line

Perhaps you are projecting your vision of things onto the OWS movement. You say if you were in charge the Fed would be targeted, but the only targeting of the Fed is now the demand for it to be nationalized, but it was not the original precept of the OWS movement. Ending the Fed is the Ron Paul movement not OWS. Some Ron Paul people are at OWS events but I don't see that the ideology is the same. Ron Paul has not truly embraced the movement either the way Obama and Pelosi have.

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by Mutant

 

I know that wasn't a reply to me but your post did bring something up. Several months ago, I did bash the Tea Party, I thought it was full of racists etc. I bought into the MSM portrayal and of course youtube videos confirmed those stories in my mind. A few ATS members set me straight and I let them, I trusted what they told me. Now that doesn't make me agree with TPM, I'm not a conservative and never will be, but I won't bash them especially now that I know what it's like to be on the receiving end.

There is certainly common ground being found slowly but surely by people around the nation. It's slow, but it's happening, isn't it?

Perhaps at some point we can see a hybrid movement come out of both OWS and TPM. Neither side has to convert, or even particularly like each other. Simple tolerance is plenty when we all agree the current majority of elected leaders aren't working.

As a combined effort, voting could recycle a large number of seats and that ability brings the power to get bills passed. It most definitely demands representation at the table for laws that have any effect on the interests of the group. If we ever get far enough for ideology in the future direction of the nation to be a thing that needs deciding, it will be a huge victory and we can work out all that, then. The combined numbers would help assure anyone even gets that far though.

reply to post by StarPeace


OP, anyone that is as naive as you, ignorant to what it was really about and the many videos online showing plenty of police brutality, needs to seriously do some research, and rethink your values of who you are deep down inside and what is actually happening to our country right now.

You think you are so smart and smitten, but in reality, you are the ignorant one.

I feel sorry for you man. I do.

Originally posted by Unknown Soldier
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

See you use the word "Teabaggers" and in doing so you reveal your leftness. You can't fool people for long.

Gosh darn it you blew my cover aww shucks

No not really, I am not a registered democrat. I am registered independent nice try though.

Teabagger does fit the mold though, see i don't have to be polarized to call you a teabagger or a ows squatter. I have distanced myself from both wings of the same bird. If i just sit back and wait for both sides to eliminate each other then what would that make me?

Do you have a label for us Indie folks?

I really love all the pseudo intellectuals who look down on those they claim are trapped in the left/right paradigm. They laugh at the "sheeple" tearing each other apart and act like they are somehow above it all. But are there not clear, fundamental differences of opinion on how the country should be governed? If there weren't then we'd all be Tea Partiers since the tea party came about first. OWS really would represent 99% right now if not for the fundamental differences. 

The differences are very real. You may be fooling yourself by claiming to be above it all but you sure as hell aren't fooling me.

OWS is a far left leaning movement, hence the reason for the lack of overwhelming support.   

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


mabey when cool heads prevail,

Perhaps at some point we can see a hybrid movement come out of both OWS and TPM. Neither side has to convert, or even particularly like each other. Simple tolerance is plenty when we all agree the current majority of elected leaders aren't working.

i second your sentiment

xp

Originally posted by XPLodER
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

mabey when cool heads prevail,

Perhaps at some point we can see a hybrid movement come out of both OWS and TPM. Neither side has to convert, or even particularly like each other. Simple tolerance is plenty when we all agree the current majority of elected leaders aren't working.

i second your sentiment

xp

Hell,I authored a thread about it........

OWS/ Tea Party: Asking for the immediate resignation of ALL those in the United States Congress,President

reply to post by sonnny1


Now that you mention it...So did I.

I'd written something on this back when I had first returned from the Occupy camp and really enthused about trying to make something happen. Wow did that idea get crushed fast. Maybe enough is changing for another to have better luck.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


EVERYONE knows Americans are fed up. We need a Unified movement,that isnt Left or Right. I for one would gladly protest.I went to Tea Party Rally's,and to OWS in my city. My first step is to vote for someone I believe in,this coming election. Second, is to recall congress.Because that NEEDS to happen.Im not going to camp anywhere,but when I have to,I will visit DC,and protest there. The only signs that should be seen is "dont let the door,hit you on the a$$,on your way out."

I asked my father how people are feeling in the UK at the moment, he replied they are all depressed over the economy. I asked who everyone is blaming expecting the usual answer (the Tories or Labour) and was shocked to hear "The Banks!".

My dad is in his 70's and has no concept of conspiracy theory.

OWS has NOT failed, IMO. Awareness has been seeded and watered.

All we need now is a catalytic event and the seedlings will start to break the surface.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


I'm the one falling for tired propaganda?

That's hilarious!

Just feel free to deny the truth when it's right there in front of you, especially when it doesn't fit your narrative, and what narrative would that be? Defending the thieves who sacked this country from any and all opposition?

I am guessing that when the American Revolution first began, there were mistakes made, wrong turns taken, etc. As with any social movement, that is going to happen, but why throw the baby out with the bath water? At least the OWS movement opened a lot of eyes to the corruption of big bankers.

reply to post by nenothtu

OWS may or may not have "failed" in this phase, but it is the perception of failure that will likely spur the next, and more active, phase.

anyone that believes OWS has failed should really consider what you just said

change doesn't happen by waving a magic wand - so many people want to dismiss this movement because it doesn't fit with their idea of how things are supposed to go

it makes them uncomfortable

what they missed - completely - is that this wasn't about success or failure

when people take to the streets and do something out of character culturally - the lack of a clear agenda, manifesto or structure, the morass of mixed emotions, endless questions without answers...this wasn't a plan. How could it fail?

yes, nenothtu, I agree - change comes in phases - and we just felt the spur

life isn't a TV show - it's not all wrapped up nice and tidy just when or how we'd like it to be

I don't know that it will be as violent as you seem to think it will be - but I've been surprised before. You may be right - but I'm hoping you're wrong

I wanted to quote much of your post - but I'll just say - a star for the whole thing

www.washingtonpost.com... tml

We failed...time to buy Christmas Cookies...

Originally posted by sonnny1
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

EVERYONE knows Americans are fed up. We need a Unified movement,that isnt Left or Right. I for one would gladly protest.I went to Tea Party Rally's,and to OWS in my city. My first step is to vote for someone I believe in,this coming election. Second, is to recall congress.Because that NEEDS to happen.Im not going to camp anywhere,but when I have to,I will visit DC,and protest there. The only signs that should be seen is "dont let the door,hit you on the a$$,on your way out."

Now THAT'S a fact!

When those on either side stray from the message, and start agitating for their own "pet projects" instead of the common cause, tempers flare and suspicions awaken. When the OWSers go off on a tangent with signs to the effect that "Capitalism must DIE!" or the Tea Partiers go off on THEIR tangents with signs to the effect that "Obama is the Aintichrist!" they don't just lose the plot, they don't just lose the common ground, they lose a tenuous potential for cooperation that's the only way things are going to be accomplished without massive bloodshed.

Whether one thinks Capitalism is the evil destroying mankind, or whether the other believe that Obama is the Overlord of the NWO is immaterial to the central premise, the common ground between the two camps that something needs to be done to break the connection between the Money Men and the Politicians. While we're arguing back and forth about side issues and non-issues (to one or the other side) we're NOT finding a means to accomplish the main goal that is acceptable to both.

I don't care if your camp has a LGBT segregated section. I don't care what you think of Capitalism, or if you even believe it still lives anywhere on Earth. I don't expect you to care that I think there IS no more Capitalism, I don't expect you to care that I want no part of a forced health care system. I don't care if you think I'm a wage slave, nor do I expect you to care if I think you want to trade that in for a State-sponsored slavery. Those are all side issues, distractions from the core. While we're arguing about them, NOTHING is getting done on the common ground.

Unknown Soldier and I have been back and forth over all kinds of side issues in a couple of threads. In THIS one, we've traded a couple of arrows - BUT he said one thing I can get behind here. It's something I've said myself elsewhere. "Fire 'em ALL!" Clean house. Wipe the slate and start fresh. Don't fix the system - force it to fix itself.

If we can manage to come to an agreement, and concentrate on the ONE issue, things can get done. On that, I can stand right with him, regardless of the other differences. It's entirely possible we may find other commonalities - or maybe not. It doesn't matter, as far as that ONE issue is concerned.

If we can manage to hold to that single thing, and both swing our hammers at it, nothing else matters for the moment.

If that ever happens, our beer in Hell may just turn out to be chilled.

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis

I don't know that it will be as violent as you seem to think it will be - but I've been surprised before. You may be right - but I'm hoping you're wrong

I'm hoping I'm wrong, too. It's not set it stone - it doesn't have to be that way. I'm only going on the history that these things generally have played out with in most places. As long as tempers continue to flare, and people continue to attack the "pposition" thinking they are defending their own side, the probability of it happening that way is much higher.

People are people, and many can't get beyond defensive reaction all the way to suspicious cooperation. Suspicion can be good - if you don't let it take you over and spill into offensive action over nothing more than perceptions. it keeps your opposition honest to let them know you're keeping an eye on them. Reaction, on the other hand, isn't "keeping an eye on them". it's blindness.

To be honest, I don't need to camp out in Zuccotti Park to have effect. In the same way, while I'm concentrating on the campers, I'm not doing anything at all to reach my goals. There are times that a metaphorical crossfire is the only way to handle a situation, and you can't catch 'em in a crossfire if all the firing is coming from one place.

I wanted to quote much of your post - but I'll just say - a star for the whole thing

Thank you. here I was, thinking we're ideological adversaries!