The Occupation has Failed

Originally posted by Algernonsmouse

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Although I supported the General Premise and still do. I think Many members shot themselves in the foot and turned people off whenever anybody would raise legitimate questions or concerns about activities and associations that were either carried out by OWS members or in OWS's name and were all too often shown the door with the attitude of...

You are either with us or against us

&

We are the 99%

edit on 21-12-2011 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)

Examples are awesome.
2nd.

Do you even know what that thread was about or know what I or he are talking about? Or is this another follower following blindly due to popular demand? slayer69 did not link said thread for the simple fact that it tells the whole story.

Run along now

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

See you use the word "Teabaggers" and in doing so you reveal your leftness. You can't fool people for long.

Gosh darn it you blew my cover aww shucks

No not really, I am not a registered democrat. I am registered independent nice try though.

Teabagger does fit the mold though, see i don't have to be polarized to call you a teabagger or a ows squatter. I have distanced myself from both wings of the same bird. If i just sit back and wait for both sides to eliminate each other then what would that make me?

Do you have a label for us Indie folks?

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by XPLodER

 

Neo…Slayer…Beezer…anybody…are any of you getting $.50 per anti-OWS post?

Hook me up! I’ve been doing it because it’s the right thing to do. I didn’t know I could get paid for being honest!!

I'm about to call my buddies on Wall Street and at the White House and see if I can get back-paid for all of this work I've done!

edit on 22-12-2011 by seabag because: (no reason given)

PayPal, it rocks.
Although you'll have to endure a swearing-in ceremony at John Stossel's house and drink blood from a half-skull given to you by Dick Chenney first

haha beezer that's priceless. You come up with the best stuff.

Originally posted by AdAbsurdum

You might be right about the paradigm shift... If you are then I will be ready. But, honestly, I don't think anything is really going to stop the train wreck of a civil war that would develop out of this collapse.

I don't see that as an either/or proposition, either. I'm aware that a lot of people do, and believe the paradigm shift is going to be accompanied by painless "consciousness raising" and that sort of thing, but I don't believe that to be the case. I see the coming civil war as part and parcel of the paradigm shift. I believe it will be the catalyst for the shift, a "clearing of the slate" to make room for the new.

There is no birth unaccompanied by pain.

OWS may or may not have "failed" in this phase, but it is the perception of failure that will likely spur the next, and more active, phase. One will feed into the next until it's defused or becomes open warfare. As civil wars usually are, it's likely to be a train wreck, per your observation. We can't really hope to head it off - there comes a point where these things take on a life of their own, and without the stimulus provided by it, there will likely be no change at all, just more of what we have now, everyone thinking "their" system fits and is best for everyone else.

One size does not fit all, and never will.

The key, I believe is to live and let live. Don't push your own version of "utopia" on someone else, and don't allow them to push theirs on you. The sooner everyone can cultivate that sort of attitude, the sooner that everyone will be happier. I don't have a problem with socialists, communists, fascists, democracies, monarchies, etc. if they don't present a threat. I can lay right down beside them and go to sleep - as long as I know they're not going to try to cut my throat in my sleep. If that's what the people in that polity WANT for themselves, it's not up to me to determine otherwise on their behalf and without their input.

My problem isn't with their ideology, it's with their insistence on spreading their form of joy by force. I have the same problem with the current American Federal Empire. If the people in any particular place have an aversion to replacing their system with an importation of yours, the application of force is going to bring trouble. This is what is likely to happen in the case of OWS. It's a foreign, imported ideology. That by itself is fine. They can run their own camps any old way they like. The problems will arise from their inability to comprehend that no one else wants it, and in their frustration, someone, somewhere, will open fire in the effort to bring us all, including and especially the ones who want nothing to do with it, under that same umbrella.

Then it will be on in earnest, and there won't be any turning back.

If it is to come, there is nothing we can do to stop it. The most we can hope for is to direct it. The history of planet Earth has shown time and time again that one man CAN make a difference. Ghandi. Buddha. Jesus Christ. MLK. Lenin. Atilla. The list is nearly inexhaustible, and they all have in common that one man changed the face of history. All that is required is that he be in the right place, at the right time, with an idea and the ability to communicate it effectively. When that all comes together, the world will be changed. How much more so a group of people in concert?

That's where the seeds planted in that thread come to fruition.

You don't stop a river. You direct the flow of it. Trying to stop it only leads to catastrophic destruction. Directing the flow can lead instead to catastrophic CONSTRUCTION. If done properly, it can even make a desert bloom. If left alone to seek it's own course, it only leads to more of the same as has always been. OWS can provide the catalyst, the power of the flow to effect the change. If it catches fire, it WILL provide those things, whether anyone likes it or not. If left to find it's own course, it will inevitably bring more if the same as we have had, with increased misery for all. Use that energy instead to make the deserts bloom with the seeds sewn in that thread.

Direct the flow,and ride the wave.

Originally posted by Unknown Soldier
reply to post by sonnny1

 

OWS evolved in to something else out of HIS idea.

Fixed Revisionist History

Kalle Lasn and his colleagues at Adbusters came up with the startling image, the question, “What is Our One Demand?” and the hashtag, #OccupyWallStreet, as in “#OccupyWall Street, September 17th, Bring Tent.”

As Lasn told Sam Eifling in The Tyee, “To me it was a sublime symbol of total clarity. Here’s a body poised in this beautiful position and it spoke of this crystal-clear sublime idea behind this messy business. On top of the head it said, ‘What is our one demand?’ To me it was almost like an invitation, like if we get our act together then we can launch a revolution. It had this magical revolutionary feel to it, which you couldn’t have with the usual lefty poster which is nasty and visceral and in your face. The magic came from the fact this ballerina is so sublimely tender.”

Beauty & the Bull: The Image that Inspired Occupy Wall Street

Originally posted by Unknown Soldier
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

See you use the word "Teabaggers" and in doing so you reveal your leftness. You can't fool people for long.

Gosh darn it you blew my cover aww shucks

No not really, I am not a registered democrat. I am registered independent nice try though.

Teabagger does fit the mold though, see i don't have to be polarized to call you a teabagger or a ows squatter. I have distanced myself from both wings of the same bird. If i just sit back and wait for both sides to eliminate each other then what would that make me?

Do you have a label for us Indie folks?

No you blew your cover


You are still polarized to the left you just don't know it yet. There are plenty of left leaning Indies who don't like the Democrats for one reason or another. There are Green libertarians and socialist libertarians, then there are the anarcho socialist libertarians, all very left leaning. So you really didnt' distance yourself from the left/right paradigm, just from the two political parties most prominent in US politics.
There are plenty of other parties to choose from, there's the Constitution Party (if you're a leftist you likely want to change it), there's the Green Party of the US, Freedom Socialist Party, Communist Party of the USA, Christian Liberty Party, Objectivist Party(that certainly sounds thrilling) Independent American Party, New Union Party, oh and Raza Unida Party.
That's only a partial listing though.

Originally posted by NuclearPaul

Originally posted by StarPeace
I could not be happier that it's over....

It's as over as the Iraq war is.

Just because they're not there anymore, doesn't mean it's finished. They won't suddenly change their views on corporate greed.

Like Hal Moore said in We Were Soldiers, "They're just regrouping for another assault".

OP makes it feel like 2003 all over again



Yeah hang that banner now OWS haters, we are like Syphilis just because the rash cleared up... wait for it!

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


You clearly have no idea what I am about at all



Keep telling yourself that, I am Obamas biggest critic. The idea that some of us out there are not caught up in the partisan trap does not register. I have seen this left right crap divide my family apart and brain wash society through divide and conquer. You are no different then a liberal it is you that does not "know it yet" .. it's all a big joke and you are part of the pun. You are being herded and used to hate each other being you are/could have been the would be resistance against this tyranny pulling your strings.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus


No you blew your cover

You are still polarized to the left you just don't know it yet. There are plenty of left leaning Indies who don't like the Democrats for one reason or another. There are Green libertarians and socialist libertarians, then there are the anarcho socialist libertarians, all very left leaning. So you really didnt' distance yourself from the left/right paradigm, just from the two political parties most prominent in US politics.
There are plenty of other parties to choose from, there's the Constitution Party (if you're a leftist you likely want to change it), there's the Green Party of the US, Freedom Socialist Party, Communist Party of the USA, Christian Liberty Party, Objectivist Party(that certainly sounds thrilling) Independent American Party, New Union Party, oh and Raza Unida Party.
That's only a partial listing though.

Spot on!

Like Kalle said......

Kalle Lasn watched Obama’s address and counts it as the high water mark for the man that he says, “has bitterly disappointed me. “The political left has been in the doldrums now for decades, but we came out and supported him in 2008,” Lasn said. “But since his famous speech in Cairo, he has turned out to be a gutless wonder, a wimp.”

He is saying hes Political left,and supported Obama. Because Obama has disappointed him,he started OWS. "BUT WE" is very telling where his Political Ideology's are placed.

reply to post by sonnny1


That's a awesome poster and quite a work of art i must say. So it it is "his" idea then? OH well i guess that means my own thoughts and the thoughts of everyone else are also the thoughts of his thoughts right? This movement belongs to him?


Wrong again , you really are upset over us aren't you?

This is good this is also rewarding

reply to post by Unknown Soldier


The demand for peer reviewed articles was silly. What is this, medical research?

reply to post by sonnny1

Like Kalle said...... Kalle Lasn watched Obama’s address and counts it as the high water mark for the man that he says, “has bitterly disappointed me. “The political left has been in the doldrums now for decades, but we came out and supported him in 2008,” Lasn said. “But since his famous speech in Cairo, he has turned out to be a gutless wonder, a wimp.” He is saying hes Political left,and supported Obama. Because Obama has disappointed him,he started OWS. "BUT WE" is very telling where his Political Ideology's are placed.

One word "WE" that can mean we as in him and his wife or him and the entirety of OWS itself. You see how one word can be taken out of context and interpreted to what you would like to think? He is not speaking for me, no more then you speak for me. I can say we here at ATS believe in conspiracy's when that is not true at all. But it works for you in your world and belief system. Not for me. :

Originally posted by Unknown Soldier
reply to post by sonnny1

 

That's a awesome poster and quite a work of art i must say. So it it is "his" idea then? OH well i guess that means my own thoughts and the thoughts of everyone else are also the thoughts of his thoughts right? This movement belongs to him?


Wrong again , you really are upset over us aren't you?

This is good this is also rewarding

Naw. Humored more then anything. Just coming up with facts,and watching someone shrug their shoulders is rewarding to me.

Off topic,but heres a few quotes from a great man........................That sacrificed years to protest.

Communists have always played an active role in the fight by colonial countries for their freedom, because the short-term objects of Communism would always correspond with the long-term objects of freedom movements.
Nelson Mandela

Money won't create success, the freedom to make it will.
Nelson Mandela

Peace

Originally posted by Unknown Soldier
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

You clearly have no idea what I am about at all



Keep telling yourself that, I am Obamas biggest critic. The idea that some of us out there are not caught up in the partisan trap does not register. I have seen this left right crap divide my family apart and brain wash society through divide and conquer. You are no different then a liberal it is you that does not "know it yet" .. it's all a big joke and you are part of the pun. You are being herded and used to hate each other being you are/could have been the would be resistance against this tyranny pulling your strings.

edit on 23-12-2011 by Unknown Soldier because: (no reason given)

Plenty of left-leaners are mad at Obama. They just think he is not left enough.
But you are right, I don't know you and you don't know me.

I personally feel that some people use the so-called 'theres no left or right" thing because they don't want to be identified with a particular party or affiliation and that's fine. I can appreciate that. I am not nearly so in the box as you obviously imagine. There is no reason I have to give up core conservative values just to be outside the left/right paradigm. I tend more toward individual rights but that doesn't mean I have to believe in legalizing pot and other drugs. Some things are just common sense. But the Nanny statism stuff can get really out of hand. I suspect though that the pot thing is more about money than using it for medical stuff.

reply to post by MemoryShock

Do you have any idea what you are talking about? The OWS movement is based on the fact that legislation is being bought for corporate interest/profit rather than public interest. The OWS movement is based on illegal banking practices that are screwing honest hardworking citizens out of what is theirs so that the banks can retake previously owned capital so they can sell it again. The OWS movement is motivated at correcting a system of loopholes that favors the rich and screws over everyone else. This BS about doing what the system has allotted for you only allows those with the proximity to money and political influence to continue structuring a legality to fit their interests only... Me thinks you may not be paying attention and automatically buy into inadequate rhetoric/philosophy that was designed to make you feel good about obeying a crooked system. Nope, I'm not an idiot and any automatic accusation of such, directly or indirectly, means nothing to me...and inclines me to not take you very seriously. Cheers, Mate...

Then why was the movement not directed at the Politicians?They are just as bad if not worse than the bankers.Shutting banks down or Wall Street will not stop anything. I think you need to go after the root of the problem, not the branches.

Originally posted by Unknown Soldier
reply to post by sonnny1

 

Like Kalle said...... Kalle Lasn watched Obama’s address and counts it as the high water mark for the man that he says, “has bitterly disappointed me. “The political left has been in the doldrums now for decades, but we came out and supported him in 2008,” Lasn said. “But since his famous speech in Cairo, he has turned out to be a gutless wonder, a wimp.” He is saying hes Political left,and supported Obama. Because Obama has disappointed him,he started OWS. "BUT WE" is very telling where his Political Ideology's are placed.

One word "WE" that can mean we as in him and his wife or him and the entirety of OWS itself. You see how one word can be taken out of context and interpreted to what you would like to think? He is not speaking for me, no more then you speak for me. I can say we here at ATS believe in conspiracy's when that is not true at all. But it works for you in your world and belief system. Not for me. :

You and Kalle have a lot in common,and No,its NOT out of context,but continue to brush it in BIG strokes,to fit the agenda. I gave you proof in his own words ,many times.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by Unknown Soldier

 

The demand for peer reviewed articles was silly. What is this, medical research?

No it is a demand to have something of substance such as real journalism. Not opinions inter laced with opinions, blog spot article with some slack jawed self proclaimed expert on social issues or some kid with a ged. This is a method often used in disseminating disinformation you see .. something of fruition. often the lunatic fringe recoils at the idea of critical thinking like here and now.

reply to post by sonnny1

You and Kalle have a lot in common,and No,its NOT out of context,but continue to brush it in BIG strokes,to fit the agenda. I gave you proof in his own words ,many times.

No i really cant relate to the guy that much actually, if i were a co founder I would have done things much differently. The fed would have been target number one. That was another air ball from you, characterizing me is not going to benefit your argument.

reply to post by mugger

Then why was the movement not directed at the Politicians?They are just as bad if not worse than the bankers.

Misdirection, i expect this problem to be corrected by the surge in the spring.

Shutting banks down or Wall Street will not stop anything. I think you need to go after the root of the problem, not the branches.

Will it change anything? Probably not, probably not today or tomorrow or next month. But down the road perhaps. But urinating in their golden grahams does feel good. Like i keep saying we decapitate the Federal reserve then then the smaller parasites will die with it.

Originally posted by Unknown Soldier
reply to post by sonnny1

 

You and Kalle have a lot in common,and No,its NOT out of context,but continue to brush it in BIG strokes,to fit the agenda. I gave you proof in his own words ,many times.

No i really cant relate to the guy that much actually..........

Originally posted by Unknown Soldier

Keep telling yourself that, I am Obamas biggest critic.

Kalle Lasn watched Obama’s address and counts it as the high water mark for the man that he says, “has bitterly disappointed me

OWS is common to both of you also.................right?

Do you think Kalle is even a BIGGER critic,to have started OWS?