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Finland Launches Probe into China-Bound Missiles

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posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 10:53 AM
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Finland Launches Probe into China-Bound Missiles


www.defensenews.com

HELSINKI - Finland has launched a probe after 69 surface-to-air Patriot missiles were found in a ship bound for the Chinese port city of Shanghai, a police statement said.

"An investigation found 69 Patriot missiles, explosive material and propelling charges," police said in a statement.

The missiles, produced by U.S. firm Raytheon, were discovered following a customs search on the British-registered Thor Liberty at the port of Kotka, about 75 miles from Helsinki.
(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
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posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 10:53 AM
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Finnish authorities have said it is illegal to pass thru their territory carrying such material, without having prior permission from defense authorities.

An investigation is underway by custom enforcement to determine possible charges of the 32 detained crewman.

It will be interesting to see how China responds to this capture and seizure of weapons and it's citizens, and how the US will respond to it's weapons being shipped to China.

www.defensenews.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 11:00 AM
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So, was this a back door deal from Raytheon, or is this the way we are paying off our debt? Not sure why we would willingly hand over our tech, unless it was to partially satisfy debt owed.



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 11:00 AM
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Both China and the U.S. are at fault here...



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 11:01 AM
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reply to post by Daedal
 


Wow S&F my friend. Thank you for posting. I will do more reading and reply a bit later.



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 11:17 AM
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So who's selling/giving those weapons to China? US or the UK or both? I mean, you don't really think that some thief put his hands on 69 Patriot missiles do you?

This seems like another ``Clinton gives nuclear/satellite technology to China`` kind of deal.

China is controlled... controlled opposition.

I say we send them the missiles via express airways... at 30 000 mph with nice fireworks when they land.

edit on 21-12-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by Vitchilo
So who's selling/giving those weapons to China? US or the UK or both? I mean, you don't really think that some thief put his hands on 69 Patriot missiles do you?


Isn't the question "who uses Patriot missiles"?

The UK do not, so rule them out.

Germany
Poland
Greece
Netherlands
US
Spain
Bahrain
Egypt
Israel
Japan
Jordan
Kuwait
Taiwan
South Korea
Saudi Arabia

Regards



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 11:41 AM
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Wow this is weird.
Here is a site that shows recent ports visited by Thor Liberty.
("http://www.shiptracking.eu/ais/#/getvesseldetails?mmsi=235218000")
It was in Spain on 24/11/11. Then it sailed to Germany. Then to Finland. All this - on path to China?
And where it picked up missiles?
It was in China almost a year ago. Between 15/11/10 (China) and 24/11/11 (Spain) no info on where it was.
Weird. US government will not sell patriot missiles to China. Sounds like some secret ops gone wrong. Lets see what country would now have quarrel with Finland. Kotka is near Russia, by the way.

edit on 21-12-2011 by ZeroKnowledge because: (no reason given)

Spain has patriot missiles, by the way.



Spain is to deploy 64 ground-to-air Patriot missiles facing the Mediterranean following their purchase from Germany, the El Mundo newspaper reported on Sunday.

www.spacewar.com...

edit on 21-12-2011 by ZeroKnowledge because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 11:43 AM
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I wonder if these missiles may have been part of the weapons that have recently been removed from Iraq?

They may have been deployed there, and then found their way into the wrong hands.



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 11:51 AM
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reply to post by paraphi
 


Let's note that the US has air force military bases in the Netherlands, Germany, Portugal, Spain, UK. Could have shipped the missiles on an airplane to the military base (no inspection from customs of course), then put it in a boat...(passed as something else). then the boat end up in a Finish port for some other business before heading to China... but it wasn't supposed to be caught.

Could be Germany or the Netherlands really, but my money is on a US military base in the UK since the ship is registered there... but the missiles are from the US.

Congress needs to investigate this... (who am I kidding, it won't happen)
edit on 21-12-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 12:16 PM
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reply to post by Vitchilo
 


You are right... it won't happen.

Let's add some other questions to our list....

Why would China "need" US Patriot Missiles?
They don't need the tech, there's nothing new or cutting edge about the "Patriot." Of course, the Chinese government doesn't necessarily have to be involved (I know.. but technically the ship's "declared" destination proves little in the way of who is getting these weapons.)

I wonder if there is a black market in which "Patriot Missiles" figures as a product..?

Who is the Captain of this ship? Who is the ship's 'true' "owner"?
... we know how maritime vessels are used and abused to cover illegal trade.

How does a military inventory manager arrange to avoid getting 'caught' when 69 missiles go missing?
Various sources are vague about the cost... seemingly costing $69 million to "develop" the weapons; the unit cost seems to be cited differently depending on who you listen to... from $600,000 per missile launched in one place to $2-3 million a piece... and in one place the cost was given as to be as much as $170 million per unit...

Which would put the illicit cargo value at between $41 Million and almost $12 Billion dollars.

Google "Patriot Missile Cost" for a head-spinning array of contradictions.

Also, having found the missiles... will the State Department follow "tradition" and ask for them back 'pretty please?'... or do you think former VP Darth Cheney recommend we attack Finland?
edit on 21-12-2011 by Maxmars because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 12:26 PM
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reply to post by Maxmars
 




Why would China "need" US Patriot Missiles?

To know how to hack the Taiwanese ones? Taiwan got an election in less than a month and if the nationalists win, China might attack.



They don't need the tech, there's nothing new or cutting edge about the "Patriot."

True. China already got better stuff than that with the S300PMU and the S400 they will get soon from Russia (if they don't have it already).


Chinese government doesn't necessarily have to be involved

True. Those weapons could be heading to Taiwan.



Who is the Captain of this ship?

They might be oblivious to the whole deal (and probably are).


Who is the ship's 'true' "owner"

CIA? Some random pawn? We'll never know.



How does a military inventory manager arrange to avoid getting 'caught' when 69 missiles go missing?

Easy. Fudging the numbers, one of the only things government is good at. Just say they were used in drills...


from $600,000 per missile launched in one place to $2-3 million a piece..

Probably $1-3 million a piece.


and in one place the cost was given as yo be as much as $170 million per unit...

Where is that? Sorcha Faal?


My guess, if this whole thing ain't some technology gift to China, is that this whole thing is under-the-radar-transfer to Taiwan to avoid China getting pissed over the ``arming`` of Taiwan just before the election... but 69 missiles don't seem like a lot... maybe it's just ONE of the shipments that were caught... and a dozen more already made it to Taiwan...

We'll see what develops.



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by Vitchilo
reply to post by Maxmars
 



from $600,000 per missile launched in one place to $2-3 million a piece..

Probably $1-3 million a piece.


and in one place the cost was given as yo be as much as $170 million per unit...

Where is that? Sorcha Faal?


Actually... www.corpwatch.org...


As usual with the Pentagon, cost is no object. But the Patriot is very expensive system and it's getting costlier all the time. Raytheon and Lockheed originally promised to deliver the new Patriot system for $3.7 billion dollars. Now the cost has soared to $7.8 billion. Each Patriot missile unit costs about $170 million. In the first Gulf War, an average of four missiles were launched against a single incoming Scud.


April , 2003



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by Maxmars
 


Each Patriot missile unit costs about $170 million.

I think this is because it was in 2003... when not a lot of them were produced... also there's the deflation factor in technology. Might have been 170 million each back then... but right now it's $2-3 million a piece.

Missilethreat.com

In February 2004, the Army awarded another production contract to Lockheed Martin worth $505 million for 159 PAC-3 missiles, including 22 missiles to replace those used in Iraq. Lockheed Martin will deliver the missiles by April 2006.

505 million/159 missiles : 3.1 million each.

Who knows...



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 01:41 PM
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I read the ship was on it's way to South Korea?? Not China. Just sayin



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 02:41 PM
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reply to post by chaakin
 


I hadn't read that. I only say the source in the OP


HELSINKI - Finland has launched a probe after 69 surface-to-air Patriot missiles were found in a ship bound for the Chinese port city of Shanghai, police said.


Is there another contradictory article I missed?



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 03:02 PM
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reply to post by Vitchilo
 



2-3 million is correct for single missile cost. It depends on which PAC-level really.

The 170 million figure as a "Patriot missile unit" may be for an entire battery or battalion including the radar array, not sure. I'd have to look it up.



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 03:08 PM
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reply to post by Maxmars
 


My bet is that the missiles were going to be off-loaded en route and not destined for China. But it's a very interesting story.



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 03:31 PM
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Let China have all the Patriot systems it wants, they don't work.

Most of the Scuds we claimed to have shot down during Desert Storm were not shot down, they came down on their own.

Israel has had then since 1990 and the Palestinian missles get through all the time.



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 03:53 PM
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If they were on their way to China they could arguably have been on route to Syria. Then they'd be pointing at you-know-who.



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