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We Killed Your Daughter; You're Under Arrest
page: 9share:
Originally posted by exile1981
reply to post by Xcathdra
www.bakersfield.com...
This is a news story on the press confrence the police force held after the incident. It gives the procedures they must follow and detail that there officers can not speed unless sirens and lights are on.
Correct... Even when we are running lights and sirens we still must exercise due diligence while driving. That means its irrelevant if our lights and sirens are activated if we end up in an accident, because its irrelevant who is at fault, because the police are at fault. While operating in an emergency manner, because we are allowed to ignore traffic law, we are required to be held to a higher standard. The other person involved can still be charged with a crime, but so can the police. Even at a criminal level if we are exonerated, we would still fall outside of a policy, resulting in a violation and loss of job and civil immunity.
Yes the deputy was speeding, thats not in doubt nor was it ever called into question by me. My intention is not to defend the deputy in this case, but provide information on the half people want to ignore. That would be the law violation by the 2 people crossing the road as well as the law violation by the 4 family members who were arrested.
Highway patrol will do their job, the report will be filed, and the deputy will be charged. What he will be charged with though is up in the air and will be contingent on all of his actions, as well as all of the actions of the 2 people killed while crossing the street illegally.
Both actions have a direct bearing on each other.
edit on 31-12-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)
now that is f**k*n disgusting. that last quote is 100% accurate. truely a terrible accident to these women, but more so there families. they will
NEVER get closure.
Police always think they are above the law. This cop killed someone then puts the victims father in jail how backwards is that. Sad thing is this
happens all the time in america our justice system is so screwed up. I live in st.louis MO. Our police here are very courrpt. I have zero respect for
police I dont care what anyone thinks of me saying that.
Originally posted by TropicKandie
Police always think they are above the law. This cop killed someone then puts the victims father in jail how backwards is that. Sad thing is this happens all the time in america our justice system is so screwed up. I live in st.louis MO. Our police here are very courrpt. I have zero respect for police I dont care what anyone thinks of me saying that.
Respectfully you may want to stop stereotyping all cops based on the actions of STL Metro police.
Secondly the father and 3 other family members were arrested for assault. Its a crime scene and they should not be traipsing all around it. Thats a good way to ensure the officer won't be charged - tampering with evidence.
Third - The police are not part of the Judicial system. IF you have issues with the way people are prosecuted / not prosecuted, then your issue is with the Prosecuting Attorney since thats is their job and not the police.
reply to post by Xcathdra
they should have killed him, that would have been just IMO. That family will never see justice, and using BULLSH# legalise excuses as to why everyone else was in the wrong, just shows you up to be a piggy protector. Always making excuses for pigs who commit crime. Anyone else would be in prison by now, where is this filthy pig right now?
edit- and i will NEVER stop steretyping all cops under the same brush, as they are ALL corruputed. When the police start arresting eachother for blatently flaunting the law, my opinion will change. But intil then, ACAB.
they should have killed him, that would have been just IMO. That family will never see justice, and using BULLSH# legalise excuses as to why everyone else was in the wrong, just shows you up to be a piggy protector. Always making excuses for pigs who commit crime. Anyone else would be in prison by now, where is this filthy pig right now?
edit- and i will NEVER stop steretyping all cops under the same brush, as they are ALL corruputed. When the police start arresting eachother for blatently flaunting the law, my opinion will change. But intil then, ACAB.
edit on 3/1/2012 by Acidtastic because: (no reason given)
reply to post by Domo1
I feel sorry for the families, but this story is from a blog and is quite incorrect in many assumptions it makes.
First off, you don't go running into a crime scene to “identify bodies”. Bodies are identified at the morgue after the crime scene is completed. When an officer is involved in a traffic accident of any type, but especially one with a fatality, due to the liability of the city/state/county a full crime scene must be set up and conducted. You don't need to have family members at the scene creating a problem because they want to see the responsible officer hauled away in the back of a police cruiser, and lets be honest here, they went there to start an altercation because they wanted the officer arrested.
Additionally the article mentions that the officer was driving too fast, didn't have on his lights, and was not in pursuit... Well, guess what, an officer does not have to be in pursuit to be driving over the speed limit, and they are NOT required in most places to use their lights when driving high speed.
For example, an officer may be called to a crime in progress, where he has to get there with great speed, but runs “dark” (meaning his lights and sirens are off) so he can sneak up on the scene and surprise the perpetrators. As long as he was on a call, his speeding and lights, or lack there of, are not necessarily a legal issue in this case.
So again, this is from a blog that is supporting the family, its not from a true news source, and thus the story is being presented from a very biased perspective.
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.
I feel sorry for the families, but this story is from a blog and is quite incorrect in many assumptions it makes.
First off, you don't go running into a crime scene to “identify bodies”. Bodies are identified at the morgue after the crime scene is completed. When an officer is involved in a traffic accident of any type, but especially one with a fatality, due to the liability of the city/state/county a full crime scene must be set up and conducted. You don't need to have family members at the scene creating a problem because they want to see the responsible officer hauled away in the back of a police cruiser, and lets be honest here, they went there to start an altercation because they wanted the officer arrested.
Additionally the article mentions that the officer was driving too fast, didn't have on his lights, and was not in pursuit... Well, guess what, an officer does not have to be in pursuit to be driving over the speed limit, and they are NOT required in most places to use their lights when driving high speed.
For example, an officer may be called to a crime in progress, where he has to get there with great speed, but runs “dark” (meaning his lights and sirens are off) so he can sneak up on the scene and surprise the perpetrators. As long as he was on a call, his speeding and lights, or lack there of, are not necessarily a legal issue in this case.
So again, this is from a blog that is supporting the family, its not from a true news source, and thus the story is being presented from a very biased perspective.
As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.
reply to post by Acidtastic
Using your logic then the deputy should not be charged with any crimes.
Secondly if you took some time to read my posts and exercise some independent thought, you would see im not defending the officer. What I am doing is presenting the other side of the coin, which would be the side most people just chose to ignore because they allow their personal feelings about law enforcement to effect their objectivity when discussing issues like this.
Did the cop break the law? He sure did.
Did the people killed break the law? They sure did.
Why should their actions be excused?
Using your logic then the deputy should not be charged with any crimes.
Secondly if you took some time to read my posts and exercise some independent thought, you would see im not defending the officer. What I am doing is presenting the other side of the coin, which would be the side most people just chose to ignore because they allow their personal feelings about law enforcement to effect their objectivity when discussing issues like this.
Did the cop break the law? He sure did.
Did the people killed break the law? They sure did.
Why should their actions be excused?
edit on 3-1-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Xcathdra
Originally posted by TropicKandie
Police always think they are above the law. This cop killed someone then puts the victims father in jail how backwards is that. Sad thing is this happens all the time in america our justice system is so screwed up. I live in st.louis MO. Our police here are very courrpt. I have zero respect for police I dont care what anyone thinks of me saying that.
Respectfully you may want to stop stereotyping all cops based on the actions of STL Metro police.
Secondly the father and 3 other family members were arrested for assault. Its a crime scene and they should not be traipsing all around it. Thats a good way to ensure the officer won't be charged - tampering with evidence.
Third - The police are not part of the Judicial system. IF you have issues with the way people are prosecuted / not prosecuted, then your issue is with the Prosecuting Attorney since thats is their job and not the police.
No the police like to file false charges then when people go to court they lie then the Prosecuting Attorney belives the police and not any witness's or anyhting I hate the police and I can if i want too!!!!! I know how they are around here and I hate them all .I hate the Maplewood police in st.louis county they are the ones who file false charges on everyone just to get money for fines. I have only been in trouble one time in my life and it was for something I didnt even do I was asslted and they charged me with assult that charge got thrown out but they still charged me with trying to escape cousdty and affray. I didnt tyr to escape my cuffs came off while I was in the car and I showed the cop that they came off and told him and 3 punk cops threw me down and put handcuffs on me so tight it was insane I HATE THE MAPLEWOOD POLICE!
I do not care what you say a lot of police are currpot and get away with crimes but, yet they arrest people over petty things. I am sure just going to look at a body didnt tamper with a crime scene plus their were a lot of witness's that saw he didnt have any lights or sirens on. but im sure that cop will lie and they wont belive the witness's because, that is how everything works out I HATE POLICE!
reply to post by defcon5
Because its traffic law, ignoring the law without using lights and sirens while using call type as justification is not an affirmative defense should any accidents / injuries / death occur. The law, as well as Supreme Court rulings on the matter, are very clear. The letter of the law / spirit of the law argument also will have issues because of due diligence requirements when ignoring traffic laws.
You can always have contributing factors, however in this case it wont release law enforcement of our responsibility, and the discussion about the type of call he was going to wont have any impact on the investigation.
The ultimate question asked is if the situation was that high of a priority, then it would have covered responding code 3. By not running code, the deputy indirectly insinuated it was not a life or death call, and an emergency response was not justified.
I get police will exceed the posted speed limit depending on call, and we can justify that action by arguing that its difficult at times for people to adequately express in words what the overall situation is. I have had situations where we started out code, reduced, and then started back up again because of new information that came in.
In the end though, we are still responsible and accountable for our actions while responding to calls.
Because its traffic law, ignoring the law without using lights and sirens while using call type as justification is not an affirmative defense should any accidents / injuries / death occur. The law, as well as Supreme Court rulings on the matter, are very clear. The letter of the law / spirit of the law argument also will have issues because of due diligence requirements when ignoring traffic laws.
You can always have contributing factors, however in this case it wont release law enforcement of our responsibility, and the discussion about the type of call he was going to wont have any impact on the investigation.
The ultimate question asked is if the situation was that high of a priority, then it would have covered responding code 3. By not running code, the deputy indirectly insinuated it was not a life or death call, and an emergency response was not justified.
I get police will exceed the posted speed limit depending on call, and we can justify that action by arguing that its difficult at times for people to adequately express in words what the overall situation is. I have had situations where we started out code, reduced, and then started back up again because of new information that came in.
In the end though, we are still responsible and accountable for our actions while responding to calls.
Originally posted by defcon5
reply to post by Domo1
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.
I feel sorry for the families, but this story is from a blog and is quite incorrect in many assumptions it makes.
First off, you don't go running into a crime scene to “identify bodies”. Bodies are identified at the morgue
.As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.
If I saw my son or someone I was close too dead on the ground I would not react by wating to go to the morge. his daughter was lying there dead on the ground of course he is going to run over there and see if she is dead or alive I wouldnt care. so if someone you were close too just got hit by a car you would just stand there?? im glad im not your wife!!!
Originally posted by TropicKandie
No the police like to file false charges then when people go to court they lie then the Prosecuting Attorney belives the police and not any witness's or anyhting I hate the police and I can if i want too!!!!! I know how they are around here and I hate them all .I hate the Maplewood police in st.louis county they are the ones who file false charges on everyone just to get money for fines. I have only been in trouble one time in my life and it was for something I didnt even do I was asslted and they charged me with assult that charge got thrown out but they still charged me with trying to escape cousdty and affray. I didnt tyr to escape my cuffs came off while I was in the car and I showed the cop that they came off and told him and 3 punk cops threw me down and put handcuffs on me so tight it was insane I HATE THE MAPLEWOOD POLICE!
The police do NOT file charges. We dont have the authority to. While I understand your anger towards police in your neck of the woods, and being I grew up in that area im well aware of them as well, however its not reflective of all police or prosecuting attorneys. Again if we use your logic, than I can just assume you are a criminal because at one point you were in custody.
The ignorance of that logic works both ways.
Originally posted by TropicKandie
I do not care what you say a lot of police are currpot and get away with crimes but, yet they arrest people over petty things. I am sure just going to look at a body didnt tamper with a crime scene plus their were a lot of witness's that saw he didnt have any lights or sirens on. but im sure that cop will lie and they wont belive the witness's because, that is how everything works out I HATE POLICE!
Thank you for proving my point that you will allow your own personal encounters with law enforcement to cloud your view when dealing with them elsewhere.
Amazing that you find it offensive that you were treated like a common criminal for reporting your handcuffs coming off, yet you have no issues denying that same argument to law enforcement.
Just as you are not a common criminal, not all cops are corrupt. Please try and remember that the next time you treat one like crap because of the past.
Originally posted by TropicKandie
If I saw my son or someone I was close too dead on the ground I would not react by wating to go to the morge. his daughter was lying there dead on the ground of course he is going to run over there and see if she is dead or alive I wouldnt care. so if someone you were close too just got hit by a car you would just stand there?? im glad im not your wife!!!
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.
The first responders would have already assessed that situation and it would have been handled. If there was any chance that anyone was still alive then they would have been in the process of being stabilized for transport. If they are fatalities, exactly what good is it going to do a family member to go over and poke around other then to add to their grief and trauma?
As a family member you need to let the professionals deal with the situation, because even if you’re a professional yourself your emotions will get in the way of you doing your job. Things like this are bad situations, and there is no easy way to pad it for anyone. As a matter of fact the best thing you can do is to remove the family members from the scene as quickly as possible, it’s in their ultimate best interest to not be there.
As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.
Originally posted by Xcathdra
Thank you for proving my point that you will allow your own personal encounters with law enforcement to cloud your view when dealing with them elsewhere.
Don't understand your point here, in marketing this is called brand awareness! Most companies try and build on this!!!!
second line as the first line was the point!
Originally posted by IceHappy
Originally posted by Xcathdra
Thank you for proving my point that you will allow your own personal encounters with law enforcement to cloud your view when dealing with them elsewhere.
Don't understand your point here, in marketing this is called brand awareness! Most companies try and build on this!!!!
second line as the first line was the point!
Then you should actually pay attention to what you type / post. That way when you get responses that say thank you for proving my point, you will understand where your post went off the tracks, resulting in prooving my point.
reply to post by Xcathdra
I wasn't aware that if you are a pig, you get to walk away from a crime scene that involves yourself? And not even get tested for drugs and alcohol. What kind of "crime" investigation was occurring if they didn't even test the officer involved? Some crime scene. Either the department is incompetent as a whole or they are covering for their buddy. I vote both since being an officer of the law anymore pretty much states to the public you are boarder line retarded......look it up....smart people aren't allowed to be cops.
I pray the arrested family take revenge. May sound cruel but we as a society are sick of the craps pigs do and get away with.
And, yes, Xcathdra.......I know you are a corrupt cop as you ALWAYS stick up for these pigs. So, you are no better than them. I pray people everywhere get as fed up as me and start taking back our streets from thugs like you.
I wasn't aware that if you are a pig, you get to walk away from a crime scene that involves yourself? And not even get tested for drugs and alcohol. What kind of "crime" investigation was occurring if they didn't even test the officer involved? Some crime scene. Either the department is incompetent as a whole or they are covering for their buddy. I vote both since being an officer of the law anymore pretty much states to the public you are boarder line retarded......look it up....smart people aren't allowed to be cops.
I pray the arrested family take revenge. May sound cruel but we as a society are sick of the craps pigs do and get away with.
And, yes, Xcathdra.......I know you are a corrupt cop as you ALWAYS stick up for these pigs. So, you are no better than them. I pray people everywhere get as fed up as me and start taking back our streets from thugs like you.
edit on 22-1-2012 by HandyDandy because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Xcathdra
As to other comments about why the deputy was not arrested, it would not be any different for a non officer who is not intoxicated.
Why are you being knowingly misleading?
How do we know that an officer who NEVER recieved a drug or alcohol test was not intoxicated? Guess?
You see, right there proves the differential treatment of the officer over others. They didn't test him.
And if you come back with I have the right to refuse the tests myself, you would also be misleading as I would automatically lose my liscense to drive. How can a cop lose their liscense and still be a cop?
Please quit misleading. I know you do it all day long to get your arrests. At least you could be honest on the web.....one would think.
edit on 22-1-2012 by HandyDandy because: (no reason given)
reply to post by thisguyrighthere
Thats because cops have a quota to fill. Got to give those speeding tickets out to pay for their jobs. Even if that means taking out as many innocents as possible.
They have no value of human life, they take it.
Cant really compare them to people who actually save lives, like medics and firemen.
Thats because cops have a quota to fill. Got to give those speeding tickets out to pay for their jobs. Even if that means taking out as many innocents as possible.
They have no value of human life, they take it.
Cant really compare them to people who actually save lives, like medics and firemen.
Originally posted by Xcathdra
Did the cop break the law? He sure did.
Did the people killed break the law? They sure did.
Why should their actions be excused
Why should they indeed.
The cop who broke the law caused 2 deaths and did not get arrested or even tested.
The family who got mad because this POS cop who just killed their family was not being arrested nor tested for anything and you want to explain to us how it was ok for them to be arrested but not the cop.
Your logic is very biased.
If they both broke the law...as you state....then why the preferential treatment?
But, no...Xcathdra will ALWAYS state that the LEO have no preferential treatment. BullSh*t.
This story being a prime example.
edit on 22-1-2012 by HandyDandy because: (no reason given)
reply to post by HandyDandy
The only thing this story is evidence of is the bias you and others have towards law enforcement and the extent you will go to excuse the actions of anyone involved if it places total blame on law enforcement.
Tested for what?
Arrested for what?
The only thing this story is evidence of is the bias you and others have towards law enforcement and the extent you will go to excuse the actions of anyone involved if it places total blame on law enforcement.
Tested for what?
Arrested for what?
reply to post by Xcathdra
The blame is all on the law enforcement.
He is the killer here. And he didnt get arrested.
Bias much.
The blame is all on the law enforcement.
He is the killer here. And he didnt get arrested.
Bias much.
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