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Happy Solstice!

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posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by riley
NOTurTypical.

Nature is not competing with your God..

You are being very hostile and taking this very personally (even though you are adament that nature can't be personified). If the concept of being grateful to nature offends you perhaps you should express that anger elsewhere.

My intention was for this to be a positive thread not a debate thread please do not trash it.


And according to the terms of ATS, opposing views are not only encouraged, but expected. Who said NoturTypical was angry? Just because someone does not agree does not mean they are angry. And it is a concept, that means an idea. NoturTypical was not against nature, but the idea of personification of nature.




posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by riley
NOTurTypical.

Nature is not competing with your God..

You are being very hostile and taking this very personally (even though you are adament that nature can't be personified). If the concept of being grateful to nature offends you perhaps you should express that anger elsewhere.

My intention was for this to be a positive thread not a debate thread please do not trash it.


And according to the terms of ATS, opposing views are not only encouraged, but expected. Who said NoturTypical was angry? Just because someone does not agree does not mean they are angry. And it is a concept, that means an idea. NoturTypical was not against nature, but the idea of personification of nature.


yes, but the TOPIC is "Happy Solstice"
NOT
remove brain, insert bible, and spew you stupidity (so it was a bit off topic to have that bible thumper in here)



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 



And according to the terms of ATS, opposing views are not only encouraged, but expected. Who said NoturTypical was angry? Just because someone does not agree does not mean they are angry. And it is a concept, that means an idea. NoturTypical was not against nature, but the idea of personification of nature.


She said he was hostile, and he was.
And "God" is a concept....that means an "idea."

Perhaps some of us who recognize and celebrate the solstice are against the idea of personification of "God".

So, are you two gonna start a Merry Christmas thread??? See ya there!

riley....how do you celebrate the solstice?



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 01:14 PM
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Originally posted by WarminIndy
And according to the terms of ATS, opposing views are not only encouraged, but expected. Who said NoturTypical was angry? Just because someone does not agree does not mean they are angry. And it is a concept, that means an idea. NoturTypical was not against nature, but the idea of personification of nature.

It's very obvious he was angry and trying to be combative.. but there's is nothing to "agree" with as I was just wishing people happy Solstice. I never personified nature.. he drew that conclusion and seemed to think it was a grudge match between god and mother nature.

People can be grateful for something without it being conciously given to them.



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by WarminIndy
 

So, are you two gonna start a Merry Christmas thread??? See ya there!

riley....how do you celebrate the solstice?

Well.. probably about the same as Christmas minus the nativity. Christmas date was changed to coincide with Solstice celebrations for political reasons.. many other customs from various cultures have mixed in with it too.

One difference is apparently having favourite foods in the feast rather than turkey,ham etc. My main motivation for acknowledging it is the fact that we're poisoning ourselves and the planet. If we were more mindful of how much we depend on nature then maybe we'd treat it better.
edit on 20-12-2011 by riley because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 01:49 PM
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Happy Solstice to you and everyone else,too:



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 01:51 PM
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reply to post by riley
 


Yep, I'm vary aware of how the Solstice celebrations were "attached" to Christmas (a date purported to be the Christ's birth...so as to "allow" the "pagans" their festival .... Otherwise, well, the pagans would have just walked away and done it nevertheless. At least that way they hung around....and said "Well, okay, I guess it's close enough".)
So few seem to understand that and embrace it!!

I wish you all the joys of the season....and none of the stress!!
Cheers
--wt



edit on 20-12-2011 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by riley

Originally posted by WarminIndy
And according to the terms of ATS, opposing views are not only encouraged, but expected. Who said NoturTypical was angry? Just because someone does not agree does not mean they are angry. And it is a concept, that means an idea. NoturTypical was not against nature, but the idea of personification of nature.

It's very obvious he was angry and trying to be combative.. but there's is nothing to "agree" with as I was just wishing people happy Solstice. I never personified nature.. he drew that conclusion and seemed to think it was a grudge match between god and mother nature.

People can be grateful for something without it being conciously given to them.





..a holiday to celebrate the changing seasons, nature and what it provides for us.


The word used was holiday which is derived from the words holy day,

holy day noun : a day set aside for special religious observance


Solstice represents changing seasons and nature, so you have a religious observance for that. What changes the seasons? The laws of physics does that. When a Christian says "God created the heaven and the earth" we mean that God created nature to do that. It has no independent will of its own, it does the exact same thing over and over again, because of the laws of physics.

Independent will means something acts according to its own choice, it is not dependent on something else. Nature is dependent on physical laws. The mystery of the solstice has been explained, and we also live in a world that is no longer afraid of the long, cold nights. We still get out and do what we want to do.

But remember, this night may be the shortest night for the Northern Hemisphere, it is the opposite for the Southern Hemisphere. They don't celebrate the Winter Solstice because for them, this is going on Summer for them. I don't think that Australians will be celebrating it tomorrow. Well maybe right now because they are already dark.



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 02:41 PM
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reply to post by riley
 



NOTurTypical.

Nature is not competing with your God..


Of course nature is not competing with God. Nature would need a mind to be able to compete. That's the point I've been making, nature is an abstract concept it's impossible for it to compete with anything.



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 02:43 PM
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Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by riley
NOTurTypical.

Nature is not competing with your God..

You are being very hostile and taking this very personally (even though you are adament that nature can't be personified). If the concept of being grateful to nature offends you perhaps you should express that anger elsewhere.

My intention was for this to be a positive thread not a debate thread please do not trash it.


And according to the terms of ATS, opposing views are not only encouraged, but expected. Who said NoturTypical was angry? Just because someone does not agree does not mean they are angry. And it is a concept, that means an idea. NoturTypical was not against nature, but the idea of personification of nature.


Exactly right. Not angry whatsoever, and not necessarily against personification of nature per se, but any abstract concept should never be spoken of as if it were a concrete entity.



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by vogon42

Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by riley
NOTurTypical.

Nature is not competing with your God..

You are being very hostile and taking this very personally (even though you are adament that nature can't be personified). If the concept of being grateful to nature offends you perhaps you should express that anger elsewhere.

My intention was for this to be a positive thread not a debate thread please do not trash it.


And according to the terms of ATS, opposing views are not only encouraged, but expected. Who said NoturTypical was angry? Just because someone does not agree does not mean they are angry. And it is a concept, that means an idea. NoturTypical was not against nature, but the idea of personification of nature.


yes, but the TOPIC is "Happy Solstice"
NOT
remove brain, insert bible, and spew you stupidity (so it was a bit off topic to have that bible thumper in here)


How outright rude. The fallacy of reification has nothing to do with a Bible, religion or et cetra. Even if I were an Atheist it would still be a huge fallacy to speak of nature as a physical personal entity.



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
.... huge fallacy to speak of nature as a physical personal entity.


OK, I tried to give you the link earlier, guess you didnt read it. Let me point out one specific thing from the link... dictionary.reference.com...


3. the elements of the natural world, as mountains, trees, animals, or rivers.


So if you look outside and see an animal...It has a brain, it is a living thing.



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 03:12 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 



Christmas in Antarctica comes in the middle of the austral summer. Christmas is a northern hemisphere festival that originated in the midwinter celebrations of pagan peoples and was later on taken on by Christians in order to embrace the ancient midwinter feasts that weren't simply going to go away because a new religion had come along.

Please note the above^^^^^ festival originated in the midwinter celebrations of pagan peoples and was later on taken on by Christians ......etc.


In consequence Christmas doesn't fit terribly comfortably into the southern hemisphere scheme of things. People in Antarctica at Christmas time are either working on scientific stations or they are tourists on a cruise.

The cruise people are ok as they're having a fabulous vacation and have chosen the timing. How do those on the scientific stations celebrate Christmas in Antarctica?
www.coolantarctica.com...

Fast becoming the new Icon for an Australian Christmas is the penguin.

Cute little fellows they only live in the southern hemisphere they are an ideal bird to be used as an Australian symbol.

They live on our southern shores and further south to the Antartic continent.

For more information go to

tww.id.au...

Here are a couple of links to show you how they celebrate Christmas in the southern hemi.
Just FYI


edit on 20-12-2011 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by riley
..a holiday to celebrate the changing seasons, nature and what it provides for us.




Reification fallacy. "Nature" has no mind therefore cannot "provide" anything whatsoever.


And you know this.....how? You are quick to spew your rhetoric but very reticent with answers to legitimate questions regarding your dogma.

How on earth do you come up with crap like that? Nature does not provide? No sunshine, water, air, food, warmth, companionship? *facepalm*
Whatever. Why do you bother if you refuse to back up your outrageous claims with anything but warped thinking?
Who are you that we should pay any attention??

TO THE OP:
HAPPY SOLSTICE TO YOU TOOOOO!!!!


Because in our faith Nature is nothing more than a tool to God. Everything we get comes from his own hand, not "nature".

I think the proper and politically correct greeting is "season's greetings".



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 03:18 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



Even if I were an Atheist it would still be a huge fallacy to speak of nature as a physical personal entity.


But...
and APOLOGIES to riley:
...how is it not your "reification fallacy" to speak of "God" as a physical personal entity? And is that the only term you know? What about "anthropomorphism"? Do you even know what that means?

You can't have it both ways. The concept of God is a far cry removed from the physical Nature surrounding us every day. If the one "abstract concept" of Nature can not possibly have a "brain", well, neither can the "abstract concept" of God.



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 03:21 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 



I think the proper and politically correct greeting is "season's greetings".


And you are absolutely correct! Season's greetings to you!
It's the time of the winter solstice in North America....a season in which the ancient peoples held festivals to celebrate the reversal of the sun's "decline" and its revival to longer daylight hours....
which has since been adulterated to fit into the Christian church calendar.

Season's greetings, everyone!!



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



Even if I were an Atheist it would still be a huge fallacy to speak of nature as a physical personal entity.


But...
and APOLOGIES to riley:
...how is it not your "reification fallacy" to speak of "God" as a physical personal entity? And is that the only term you know? What about "anthropomorphism"? Do you even know what that means?

You can't have it both ways. The concept of God is a far cry removed from the physical Nature surrounding us every day. If the one "abstract concept" of Nature can not possibly have a "brain", well, neither can the "abstract concept" of God.



Because God would not be an abstract concept. God would have a mind, therefore He could provide for us. Nature has no mind. It's okay to ascribe personal qualities to a God. You'd have a point if I spoke about "Christianity" as having personal qualities. Example:

"Christianity has an answer for that." That would be the same type of statement, Christianity is an abstract concept is has no mind, it cannot "answer" anything.



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 



Because in our faith Nature is nothing more than a tool to God.

This is an idea, not a proven fact.
One cannot say "it's true because that is our faith". That is not "how" you "know" it. That is "why" you "think" it.



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 03:42 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



It's okay to ascribe personal qualities to a God.

It's okay.....why? Have you met this entity? Has he visited you personally, or invited you to his house?
God is an abstract concept.

You claim Nature is an abstract concept. If it's "okay" to give God personal qualities, then it's "okay" for me to ascribe personal qualities to Nature. (Which I don't. I only acknowledge that Nature is what provides for us our immediate and physical needs. I believe there is an infinite one-ness of which we are all a part....ALL...including plants, rocks, trees, air, rain, oceans, animals, people...etc.)



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 03:43 PM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
......
Because in our faith Nature is nothing more than a tool to God. Everything we get comes from his own hand, not "nature".
.....


Sounds to me like you are the tool, used by your preacher to generate revenue. When I look outside, I see a walnut tree, and it provides walnuts. I can walk into the woods, find a deer, and that provides meat for my family.
I don't recall your god bringing anything to my table....does he have spaghetti-o's or maybe some sardines??




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