The NYPD lied., page 3

reply to post by hooper

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Fair enough, I was using the word improperly.

reply to post by hooper

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Hooper, that is, as I've said, the single WORST attempt at a deflection I've ever seen.

ONLY A CLASS A MORON WOULD ARGUE ABOUT IT BEING REAL LAVA.

No-one else even implied it was real lava.

Secondly, you asked WHERE THE POLICE SAID THE WORD LAVA, you've been shown, but somehow thats not enough for you,you feel the need to add a caveat to your previous comment.

Man up, concede this point, and move onto another one like any rational being would do.

(Fact of the matter is, the official story is that the concrete melted "Like Lava" and solidified around the gun.
Melting concrete should have melted guns. So they should probably change the sign don't you think to "debris from the fallen building coalesced around the guns and hardened beneath the pressure and heat over the course ofa few weeks")

reply to post by septic

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I believe the story that these guns rode on the hips of officers who died is false if it is presumed their bodies were engulfed in molten concrete, but their guns survived. The fact that the guns were embedded in concrete disproves the claim they were on the officers' hips that morning. A more realistic explanation is they were dumped in the still wet concrete after a crime was committed.

Or the officer was pulverized during the collapse.
Or the officer was incinerated leaving just the metal parts of the gun.

Two very reasonable explanations as opposed to evil people throwing police into wet concrete.

Besides didn't you say that extreme heat breaks down concrete?

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by septic

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The placard says MELTED.

You said lava. Not "like" lava. Gotcha. Like is a word. Its use has a purpose. You did not use it in your OP yet you had knowledge that the presntation did include the word. Hmmm. There's a word for that.

Your right, it does have a purpose and its purpose is to explain the similarities between what concrete is like when it melts and what lava is like.

I can't tell if you're trolling or just daft.

"Like lava" is clearly a implication of something, now are you really that daft that you can't tell what they are trying to imply?

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by septic

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I believe the story that these guns rode on the hips of officers who died is false if it is presumed their bodies were engulfed in molten concrete, but their guns survived. The fact that the guns were embedded in concrete disproves the claim they were on the officers' hips that morning. A more realistic explanation is they were dumped in the still wet concrete after a crime was committed.

Or that the encasements were found in the vicinity of the US Customs aresenal and that the concretions are a result of heat, gypsum, stone and water which were more than well in supply to create a concrete without the actual pre-existing concrete being reduced to a liquid state and then reconstituted to a solid.

You'd think they'd be in the US Customs Museum or something.

Originally posted by MaxSteiner
reply to post by hooper

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Sorry, but you've made a big mistake, at least have the balls to admit it.
You said where does it say Lava. You've been shown.

No never mind, I can already tell you're one of those people who can't ever bare to be wrong about anything....

Edit ==>Furthermore, you attempt at deflection is PATHETIC!
Of course its LAVA LIKE, ITS NOT REALLY LAVA, IT DIDN'T COME OUT OF A VOLCANO.

edit on 19-12-2011 by MaxSteiner because: (no reason given)

You think its meaningless and trivial yet so many of these cock and bull conspiracy fantasies are based on twisting a word here and omitting a word there until they can contrive some nonsensical "theory". In this case a simple placard at a POLICE museum sought to tell the viewer in the simplest terms what they were looking at and how it got that way. Then the OP twists this into some kind pseudo sciencitific declaration and draws some delusional conclusions.

Originally posted by samkent
reply to post by septic

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I believe the story that these guns rode on the hips of officers who died is false if it is presumed their bodies were engulfed in molten concrete, but their guns survived. The fact that the guns were embedded in concrete disproves the claim they were on the officers' hips that morning. A more realistic explanation is they were dumped in the still wet concrete after a crime was committed.

Or the officer was pulverized during the collapse.
Or the officer was incinerated leaving just the metal parts of the gun.

Two very reasonable explanations as opposed to evil people throwing police into wet concrete.

Besides didn't you say that extreme heat breaks down concrete?

Who said anything about throwing police into wet concrete? He's talking about throwing the guns into concrete because they were used for something illegal.

rutlandherald.typepad.com...

Like this for example, you know...Disposing of the weapon...

reply to post by samkent

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Actually they were from an evidence room according to the placard,but as Hooper has so elegantly proven for us, the sign is wrong, so maybe we should take that with a grain of salt

reply to post by septic

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You'd think they'd be in the US Customs Museum or something.

Nope, read the museum display. You know, the one that says "like lava".

Originally posted by hooper

Originally posted by MaxSteiner
reply to post by hooper

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Sorry, but you've made a big mistake, at least have the balls to admit it.
You said where does it say Lava. You've been shown.

No never mind, I can already tell you're one of those people who can't ever bare to be wrong about anything....

Edit ==>Furthermore, you attempt at deflection is PATHETIC!
Of course its LAVA LIKE, ITS NOT REALLY LAVA, IT DIDN'T COME OUT OF A VOLCANO.

edit on 19-12-2011 by MaxSteiner because: (no reason given)

You think its meaningless and trivial yet so many of these cock and bull conspiracy fantasies are based on twisting a word here and omitting a word there until they can contrive some nonsensical "theory". In this case a simple placard at a POLICE museum sought to tell the viewer in the simplest terms what they were looking at and how it got that way. Then the OP twists this into some kind pseudo sciencitific declaration and draws some delusional conclusions.

Because the explanation for how it got that way doesn't add up, in order for the explanation to be accurate the conditions mentioned in the original post would have to be met, comparing it lava is a clear contradiction of whats infront of us.

reply to post by septic

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Numerous police agencies had offices in the WTC complex including

Bureau Alcohol Tobacco Firearms WTC 6
US Custom House WTC 6
US Secret Service WTC 7 9/10 floors
Port Authorithy NY/NJ Police WTC 5

In addition over 60 law enforcement officers lost lives at WTC (37 PAPD, 23 NYPD, 1 FBI, 1 Secret Service,
3 NY Court Officers)

Plenty of handguns were carried either on person or stored in arsenals in the offices

Here is picture of some of the guns recovered

www.ar15.com...

One of the pictures shows gun concretions recovered from the scene

Hooper is right - most likely cause is combination of cement, gypsum from wall board reacting with heat and
water in the pile. The rubble pile burned for 3 months, into mid December reaching temps of 1700 F in spots

reply to post by hooper

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You're whole argument has fallen apart because you were focusing on a single grain of the issue, which was so pointlessly anal that no-one who's read this thread can take you seriously, particularly as you've just proven you aren't willing to look at pictures, let alone read evidence presented to you.

reply to post by samkent

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Or the officer was pulverized during the collapse.
Or the officer was incinerated leaving just the metal parts of the gun.

Two very reasonable explanations as opposed to evil people throwing police into wet concrete.

Besides didn't you say that extreme heat breaks down concrete?

You're all over the place here, but have you read the OP? The police claim these weapons to be theirs and they claim they are evidence the concreted melted "like" lava.

Where are you reading about pulverization?

With the temperature of the melted concrete being more than adequate to melt the guns, how did only the guns survive?

Yeah, extreme heat breaks down concrete, and more heat will melt the components, but the guns would melt first.

reply to post by thedman

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The police say melted concrete, are you saying they're wrong?

reply to post by thedman

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Where did Hooper say that?
His whole argument started out that the sign didn't say "like Lava".

Then he tried claiming that the other side was under the impression it "WAS LAVA".

How does that make him right?

You've at least provided something (I wonder what the composition of the material around the guns is though, because the placard does say its concrete rather than amalgamated building materials), Hooper just provided a token nay sayer.

Originally posted by MaxSteiner
reply to post by samkent

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Actually they were from an evidence room according to the placard,but as Hooper has so elegantly proven for us, the sign is wrong, so maybe we should take that with a grain of salt

Ah...missed that part, thanks for the correction.

Originally posted by septic
reply to post by thedman

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The police say melted concrete, are you saying they're wrong?

From the placard:

GUN ENCASED IN CONCRETE AND GUN CASING REMAINS

The U.S. Customs House stored a large arsenal of firearms at its Six World Trade Center Office. During recovery efforts several handguns were found at Ground Zero including these two cylindrical gun casing remains and a revolver embedded in concrete. Fire temperatures were so intense that concrete melted like lava around anything in its path.

Nothing about the guns being on the hips of the NYPD.

reply to post by hooper

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Then again..perhaps the vast majority don't see the point of questioning the origins of some Police weapons that once sat on the hip of Officers who probably died in the towers that morning.

It was being discussed with another poster, but thanks for your correction.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

How could the steel survive if the concrete melted like lava? That doesn't sound like a lie coming from a corrupt department of professional liars led by Bernie Kerik and Rudy Guliani?

reply to post by septic

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How could the steel survive if the concrete melted like lava?

Water. Millions and millions of gallons of water. Think of a mixture of pulverized concrete including sand, aggregate, cement, and other cementious materials from the structure being heated and mixed with water.

Originally posted by hooper

Originally posted by septic
reply to post by thedman

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The police say melted concrete, are you saying they're wrong?

From the placard:

GUN ENCASED IN CONCRETE AND GUN CASING REMAINS

The U.S. Customs House stored a large arsenal of firearms at its Six World Trade Center Office. During recovery efforts several handguns were found at Ground Zero including these two cylindrical gun casing remains and a revolver embedded in concrete. Fire temperatures were so intense that concrete melted like lava around anything in its path.

Nothing about the guns being on the hips of the NYPD.

"
The section of the museum that these guns are on display is '9/11 remembered the part played by NYPD' There are other 9/11 sections, but this one is for NYPD.

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