The NYPD lied.

reply to post by Alfie1


Well, if concrete can melt, then I suppose people, 8-foot tall engine blocks, stainless steel elevator doors, swamp-coolers full of water, walk-in refrigerators, desks, miles of cable, acres of carpet, gypsum and concrete can all spontaneously turn to dust.

I stand corrected.

Originally posted by septic
You brought up rubber dummies, I did not.

This can be easily dealt with.

Were the WTC jumpers real people of flesh and blood who were alive when they jumped, but died falling to their death?

Yes or no?

Just so we can dispense with the sanctimonious façade, you know.

reply to post by snowcrash911


No, your distractions are meaningless.

The police claim the fires were so hot they melted concrete, true or false?

Originally posted by septic
reply to post by snowcrash911

 

No, your distractions are meaningless.

The police claim the fires were so hot they melted concrete, true or false?

Thank you, that's a no: you think the jumpers are fake. Enjoy the discussion.

Originally posted by snowcrash911

Originally posted by septic
reply to post by snowcrash911

 

No, your distractions are meaningless.

The police claim the fires were so hot they melted concrete, true or false?

Thank you, that's a no: you think the jumpers are fake. Enjoy the discussion.

If you'd like to discuss jumpers, I suggest you start your own thread.

Please stick to the topic or take a hike. The police say the concrete melted. True or false?

reply to post by septic

Turn just one floor to dust all at once.

Why? and What?

Take this one, with the generators...are you saying these monsters are sitting on 4 inch concrete held up with trusses?

No, why would you say that? I put together a ballpark estimate based on an average of just 4 inch thick concrete. Don't you actually read the posts?

Turn them to dust in your calculations

Huh?

Ok, just for fun - lets say the mechanical floor is 208 feet squared by 9 inches thick, thats (208 x 208) x .75 = 32,000 (more or less) cubic feet of concrete. Or 1200 cubic yards of concrete. Figure about 1100 lbs of cement per yard that would be about 660 tons of cement. Lets say 10% of that was reduced to dust by the action of collapse. That would be a dust cloud of 66 tons of cement. Or about four full tri-axle dump trucks of cement. Now lets say there's about one once of cement in each cubic foot of dust cloud. Well 66 tons of cement is 132000 lbs of cement. Thats 16 x 132000 = 2,112,000 cubic feet of dust from just reducing 10% of the cement of one floor.

reply to post by septic


The police made a mistake by simplifying it for the layperson. Sometimes people over-simplify it for others that have ZERO understanding or would have a very hard time understanding the actual complicated processes that created it. (Apparently for a person like you.)

The police didnt lie about anything. The only ones lying are those that claim to be for the truth. Why is that?

I'm surprised you are not nitpicking over whether the lavatory seat was in the up or down position in the airplane before it crashed into the WTC.

reply to post by hooper


That's great, thanks for calculating that. Is it assumed the heavy equipment was placed on reinforced concrete to boot? I would think it would be, what with those generators and all.

Why would the whole slab of reinforced concrete turn to dust at the same time? Wouldn't different parts behave differently, depending on whether it was struck from above, or from the side, and whether a giant generator (or 12) were there to deflect the energy of the impact?

You see how your hypothetical concrete dustification turns to dust once you start including the contents? What was on each floor is necessary for your calculation, or are you assuming flat floors impacted flat floors below them, thereby dustifying them all?

How much would the rebar reinforced slab of concrete sitting on i-beams slow down the rest of the collapse?

Originally posted by GenRadek
reply to post by septic

 

The police made a mistake by simplifying it for the layperson. Sometimes people over-simplify it for others that have ZERO understanding or would have a very hard time understanding the actual complicated processes that created it. (Apparently for a person like you.)

The police didnt lie about anything. The only ones lying are those that claim to be for the truth. Why is that?

I'm surprised you are not nitpicking over whether the lavatory seat was in the up or down position in the airplane before it crashed into the WTC.

edit on 12/22/2011 by GenRadek because: (no reason given)

Mistake. I see.

Did you read the OP where the NYPD Police commissioner in charge at the time of 911 is still in the slam for fraud and lying? Precedence aside, why would anyone make such a "mistake" unless the intent was to imply to the layperson that the fires were hot enough to melt concrete?

What layperson would ever even imagine such a thing?

You would be surprised how many times I see things that are so oversimplified that I have to laugh at how almost inaccurate it is. The premise is correct, but its done so that even a kindergartner can understand the very basic concept. How would you explain the sky being blue to a pre-schooler? I mean come on.

This Police display is just that: An oversimplification of processes that probably 99.9999% of population will never experience or study, or see with their own eyes. Would you rather have an explanation that would be a 10000 word essay explaining how pulverized gypsum, concrete, crushed fireproofing, water, heat, pressure and time turned into a flowing mass conglomeration that flowed over the handguns and solidified over many weeks and months, including explanations of the corrosive environment and how it all created the mass, including complex chemical equations, and theories, etc. that would cause a good 90% of the population reading it to have their eyes glaze over and walk away, or would you rather simplify it so that even the lowest of IQs can basically understand the events that happened?

The only people that actively push anything that "melted" are the Truthers themselves. From steel melting from jet fuel to concrete melting from jet fuel. Truthers. No one else. NIST does not say steel melted from jet fuel. It also does not say the concrete melted from jet fuel.

And your hilarious personal incredulity and limited knowledge regarding what happens to steel in a fire always gives me a good chuckle. Allow me to fix your errors:

Steel in the WTC did NOT melt causing the collapses.
Steel can and DOES weaken in fires quite rapidly. Look at the Windsor Fire, McCormick Place Fire, any fire that has a steel trussed roof which collapsed, etc. That is why steel NEEDS fireproofing, and is a requirement in many steelframed structures.
Jet fuel did not melt the steel That is a strawman created by TRUTHERS.
Office fires are capable of temperatures that can soften steel to failure. Check with your local fire dept or fire science book.
Concrete did not melt as you claim into a lava.
This "like lava" fiasco is exactly like "Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth" claim of pyroclastic clouds from the WTCs collapses. They dont even understand the term and there were NO volcanoes in NYC. In fact, its a good example of oversimplifying something to almost a mistake.

Originally posted by septic

Mistake. I see.

Did you read the OP where the NYPD Police commissioner in charge at the time of 911 is still in the slam for fraud and lying? Precedence aside, why would anyone make such a "mistake" unless the intent was to imply to the layperson that the fires were hot enough to melt concrete?

What layperson would ever even imagine such a thing?

Ok, how the hell do you connect tax fraud and lying about corruption and a chunk of destroyed and concreted guns and debris in an NYPD museum on 9/11?

I mean this is reaching absurd levels of desperation, and it just shows how you Truthers will stop at nothing to keep your Truther Train rolling, even though its long derailed and laying in a ditch, burnt to a shell.

Desperation is a stinky cologne.

[edit to add]

I almost forgot, I love how you try and implicate that the police faked that tire embedded in the exterior columns tree laying on the street photo. You guys will stop at nothing to push your garbage. This becoming a comedic tragedy.

reply to post by GenRadek


Yes, and you'd be surprised how often the OS faithful will say things like the police made a mistake about claiming the fires were so hot they melted concrete. Nothing to see here, move on.

Originally posted by hooper

Originally posted by septic
reply to post by hooper

 

Even with a thousand jack-hammers you won't get dust clouds like this:

Why not? Again, just because something pops into your head doesn't mean its true. So please tell me why that photo is impossible. Don't forget that was seen by millions of people. Do you think this photo is fake?

As for calculations - lets do a little ballparking - 30 floors of about an acre apiece and 4 inches thick. So that would be 30x(208 x 208) x 0.333 = 432,207 cubic feet of concrete. That's about 16,000 cubic yards. Or about a thousand mixer trucks. That doesn't include that acres of drywall.

Because concrete is harder than you're making it out to be, and it simply does not "turn to dust" without a lot of effort.

reply to post by GenRadek

Ok, how the hell do you connect tax fraud and lying about corruption and a chunk of destroyed and concreted guns and debris in an NYPD museum on 9/11?

As I made clear in the OP, it is a demonstration of the kind of character in charge of the NYPD on 911.

reply to post by septic

That's great, thanks for calculating that. Is it assumed the heavy equipment was placed on reinforced concrete to boot? I would think it would be, what with those generators and all.

Well, its all "reinforced". All reinforced means is there is some metal in the concrete, rebar or wwf. Very little concrete isn't reinforced. The concrete itself is the same, relatively speaking. Mix designs vary.

Why would the whole slab of reinforced concrete turn to dust at the same time?

Didn't say it would - again, read the posts.

Wouldn't different parts behave differently, depending on whether it was struck from above, or from the side, and whether a giant generator (or 12) were there to deflect the energy of the impact?

Nope. Breaking concrete makes dust. Its that simple.

You see how your hypothetical concrete dustification turns to dust once you start including the contents?

Huh? The concrete broke and made dust. What's sitting on top doesn't really matter.

What was on each floor is necessary for your calculation, or are you assuming flat floors impacted flat floors below them, thereby dustifying them all?

Don't know, don't care. Breaking concrete makes dust. And there is no such word (outside of truther world) as dustify.

How much would the rebar reinforced slab of concrete sitting on i-beams slow down the rest of the collapse?

Milliseconds. The design of the building didn't include catastrophic impact loads.

Originally posted by septic
reply to post by GenRadek

 

Yes, and you'd be surprised how often the OS faithful will say things like the police made a mistake about claiming the fires were so hot they melted concrete. Nothing to see here, move on.

Yes people DO MAKE MISTAKES.

Let me ask you something, is the police dept educated in construction, chemistry, engineering, etc?

You'd be surprised how many people made mistakes on 9/11. If you want to find REAL mistakes committed on 9/11, and prior, read the 9/11 Commission Report, and then investigate further into who fouled up and dropped the ball. Who made a mistake and didnt send the intel to the proper authorities? Who made a mistake and decided to be a jerk and withold information from a rival agency? You want a conspiracy? Start there. Not this BS about police "lying" about a chunk of crap in a museum.

Originally posted by hooper

Nope. Breaking concrete makes dust. Its that simple.

Huh? The concrete broke and made dust. What's sitting on top doesn't really matter.

The huge generators wouldn't break the fall of whatever was falling down then, the whole slab just goes "poof"? Goodness, I must be talking about different stuff. How is this guy surviving the gigantic dust cloud from the concrete he's crushing with such ease!

Originally posted by septic
reply to post by GenRadek

 

Ok, how the hell do you connect tax fraud and lying about corruption and a chunk of destroyed and concreted guns and debris in an NYPD museum on 9/11?

As I made clear in the OP, it is a demonstration of the kind of character in charge of the NYPD on 911.

Oh Lord, this is absurd. So that is the key piece into bringing down the entire NWO, Illuminati, Jewish conspiracy of 9/11, with magical thermites, explosives, no planes, holograms, death rays, thousands of planted witnesses, mass hypnosis, etc etc etc.

ALERT THE PRESSES!!!! Septic has figured it all out. Well get started, I'll post the contacts to the major media outlets and you get on the horn and start calling them with this explosive revelation!

newslink.org...

The above has links to every news outlet in the US, including radio, TV, and newspaper. Get started, you have a lot of work to do.

reply to post by GenRadek


THAT'S A BIG FREAKING MISTAKE!

WHAT OTHER MISTAKES DID THEY MAKE?

Office fires can melt steel and concrete, and jets can slice through steel buildings. Stuff happens, people make mistakes. Sheesh, you guys!

reply to post by septic

The huge generators wouldn't break the fall of whatever was falling down then, the whole slab just goes "poof"?

Well, I don't know if "poof" is quite the word but yes, that's about it. Those "huge" generators wouldn't even be a fart in the wind when you got a couple dozen floors of one the worlds largest buildings falling down on your head.

Goodness, I must be talking about different stuff. How is this guy surviving the gigantic dust cloud from the concrete he's crushing with such ease!

Well, first the guy is sitting in the climate controlled cab of the excavator and secondly that just one ram hoe point on one piece of concrete - multiply that by a 1000 and you get the idea.