The future can not be changed

reply to post by randyvs

But what about the future ?

The future doesn't exist... Nor does the past...

The future is mearly hopes and dreams... and the past is only memories...

There is only now... that is all that has ever been

reply to post by randyvs

Hey now ! You're starting to yell at me and that could hurt my feeling.

You are mistaken.... I was not yelling, nor was I angry, or upset.

I was capitalizing certain words to imply "Emphasis" on those words.... it's a sort of hobby of mine.

I didn't think there was a problem. Just a minor disagreement that didn't amount to a pimple on a nats ass really.

I didn't think there was a problem either, You asked the boards for an opinion, and I responded with mine.... I didn't really see what the Problem was, honestly.

But if you're gonna start cap'n on me, nevermind.

It's indiscriminate, I assure you... I CaP on ErRyBOdy.

reply to post by ErtaiNaGia


All good after some ill fated attempts at humor on my part. The title was meant as an opposite to how you often hear people say " You can't change the past " But I botched it a little and wrote " The future can not be changed "

So just a complete misnomer really.

The question is really: do you believe in chance, or do you not?

Personally, I don't believe quantum mechanics has yet proven uncertainty to be a fact. Whilst the movement of certain particles may appear 'uncertain' to us - that is to say, we cannot accurately predict where they will appear at any given point in time - this doesn't necessarily mean they are moving randomly. Uncertain doesn't always mean random.

Everything you are made of was already moving before you were conscious. Every little particle of you already had a direction, a velocity, and energy. YOU didn't supply that.

You're a passenger taking a ride. Causal determinism.

reply to post by randyvs



Maybe the past can be changed or influenced. Relatively recent advances in the understanding of Quantum physics and Relativity suggest that the past, present and future all exist in the same construct. There is no hindrance in the mathematics of physics that requires a movement or progression “forward” in time. What we perceive as the passing of time is merely a property of entropy.

Source: Scientific American

The notion that the past, present and future exist simultaneously is similar to the Hindu belief that a person’s various incarnations exist simultaneously as well.

Some experimentation has been performed to test the possibilities of influencing the “past” with surprising and incredible results…. Wheelers Classic Delayed Choice Experiment

“Wheeler said he was sure the universe was filled with "huge clouds of uncertainty" that haven't yet interacted either with a conscious observer or even with some lump of inanimate matter. In all these places, he said, the cosmos is "a vast arena containing realms where the past is not yet the past."

Source: Huffington Post

Retrocausality…

“Researchers are on the verge of experiments that will finally hold retrocausality's feet to the fire by attempting to send a signal to the past. What's more, they need not invoke black holes, wormholes, extra dimensions or other exotic implements of time travel. It should all be doable with the help of a state-of-the-art optics workbench and the bizarre yet familiar tricks of quantum particles. If retrocausality is confirmed -- and that is a huge if -- it would overturn our most cherished notions about the nature of cause and effect and how the universe works.”

SFGate

There’s another experiment that I’ve heard of that involves coin flips and the probability of more heads than tails and vice versa. First a set number of coin flips is performed and the results are recorded and sealed. Then a person is asked to write down the coin flip results transcribed from the recording. Each time the person is asked to do this he/she is told to concentrate on getting more heads than tails or vice versa. The results of the experiment seem to indicate that the person transcribing the results actually influences the past. Unfortunately I can’t find the documentation for this experiment.

Anyway… It seems that science is on the verge of discovering the mechanisms of time and how to influence events that occur in the past.

I think that one important factor in influencing the past is that it cannot be an event that many people have observed or know about. The uncertainty factor seems to play a role in this.
It’s pretty interesting stuff IMHO….

On the other hand... if the future exists simultaneaously with the past and present than it would seem logically that it cannot be changed. It's a paradox; if we have free will and our decisions effect the future, how can it be that the future is already set?

if you take into account the theory of multiple universes where all possible actions, decisions and outcomes are played out in an infinte number of universes, then the paradox goes away. We make a decision and instantly we exist in the universe where that decision bears influence on the outcome in that particular universe.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by IAMIAM

 

That was very pretty IAM. That just made this whole thread worth it.

Thank you.

edit on 21-12-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

Your thread started it.

It flowed from my fingers unnoticed, and I can't lose a certain feeling since.

Thank YOU for the inspiration.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by Blarneystoner


Excellent post from Blarney. I'm going to have to read that one thru several times.

Akragon

There is only now... that is all that has ever been

I find this view to be the least detrimental to ones sanity, with the least amount of distortion to reality.

reply to post by randyvs


Too bad, Randyvs, another good thread gone to waste by not wanting to look inside. Oh well, been there, done that. Wish you peaceof heart and soul, though. Until we meet again!

reply to post by randyvs

I find this view to be the least detrimental to ones sanity, with the least amount of distortion to reality

Well think about it...

what happens to a person that lives in his past... Regrets, guilt... this isn't every case but its a false reality either way...

The future doesn't exist until we live it, and it becomes now.... the past was now... but its over, and exists in memory and documents, and recently video...

The reality is there is ONLY now...

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by randyvs

 

But what about the future ?

The future doesn't exist... Nor does the past...

The future is mearly hopes and dreams... and the past is only memories...

There is only now... that is all that has ever been

I was actually gonna reply in the exact same way. Guess I don't have to anymore.

You can not be more off with your statement that the past is "set in stone" - because the past and how we experience "the past" and our whole history is EXTREMELY SUBJECTIVE.

Not only is the past extremely subjective in how we experience it "as happened"..it can (and also does!) getting rewritten and re-interpreted.

Let's take a HYPOTHETICAL EXAMPLE:

Let's assume that Germany won the war and now big parts of Europe would be under some kind of Nazi regime. They would probably look back in the past and celebrate Hitler, the Holocaust, WWII as great events. We would probably celebrate Hitler's birthday every year with parties and getting off from work.

The resistance and people who wanted to kill Hitler, unlike today, they would NOT be remembered as heroes and martyrs...but likely we would remember them as murderers and evil people.

YOU REALIZE that the events are 100% and totally the same - it's the interpretation of the events which make us see and experience our past!

We (humans) are SUBJECTIVE beings driven by emotions...rarely is ANYTHING absolute..this applies to the past and of course to the future!

Originally posted by flexy123
You can not be more off with your statement that the past is "set in stone" - because the past and how we experience "the past" and our whole history is EXTREMELY SUBJECTIVE.

Not only is the past extremely subjective in how we experience it "as happened"..it can (and also does!) getting rewritten and re-interpreted.

Let's take a HYPOTHETICAL EXAMPLE:

Let's assume that Germany won the war and now big parts of Europe would be under some kind of Nazi regime. They would probably look back in the past and celebrate Hitler, the Holocaust, WWII as great events. We would probably celebrate Hitler's birthday every year with parties and getting off from work.

The resistance and people who wanted to kill Hitler, unlike today, they would NOT be remembered as heroes and martyrs...but likely we would remember them as murderers and evil people.

YOU REALIZE that the events are 100% and totally the same - it's the interpretation of the events which make us see and experience our past!

We (humans) are SUBJECTIVE beings driven by emotions...rarely is ANYTHING absolute..this applies to the past and of course to the future!

Your missing something here that is absolute beyond any doubt. Truth is absolute and when we apply the truth
to the past, we can not assume anything. As in your example, the truth is Garmany surrendered. So the truth is what happened and it is absolute or it is not the truth. That is to say that if our version of something that happened in the past is a lie, or not the absolute truth. We are no longer talking about the past, but a lie.
So how can you say the past isn't set in stone ?

If I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone and fired 3 shots from a book depository killing John Kennedy. Then I believe a lie. That lie blinds me from knowing the truth and the past. When what really happened is there was more than just one shooter and none of them were Oswald. Our lies, or our perceptions, have no bearing on the truth or the past or the truth of the past. Germany surrendered is the truth. The cold ,set in stone, absolute truth.
I don't see how that can be argued.

In a sense the future is inevitable. We all act upon past experiences and our future expectations or desires, and in this is a certain fated-ness. We are not truly free, though we can have the perspective of freedom I believe.

I think that we are approaching a time where we will find more freedom. In my opinion we need to live more wholly in the present in order for that to happen. As mentioned above, most people seem to act upon past and future perspectives, and most people I think will notice upon reflection how wandering their mind is most of the day. We tend to be thinking of other times, and of other places wherever we are, and fail to be wholly absorbed in the moment.

I can attest to the strange effects that living in the moment can have on your life, perspective, and sheer sensation of it. It takes practice to bring ones mind back to "reality", because our attention spans have become so short-circuited due to our technology (and may actually have to due with the reality of electro-magnetic produced by our technology); quantum physics could probably even describe that our physical mind could actually be caught up in these processes through super-position and entanglement. This would really have serious implications, but in my opinion, if we can learn to focus amidst the ever increase in outside forces nagging our attention then we could truly advance our consciousness faster than would be possible in a calm and undisturbed atmosphere.

Quantum physics says there is probability in everything, but that does not mean there is necessarily a "choice", especially on a macroscopic level. The more microscopic you get however, i.e. the more concentrated things get, the more common it is to observe anomalous behavior.

I for one have witnessed so many synchronicities and coincidences to believe that life as we know it is a sort of impression, or recording being lived out by either me and only me, or a multiple-participator "game" where everyone is playing pre-disposed roles for the experience of learning. Though the first would make me highly delusional by modern-science, I do not think it makes me insane to simply consider the possibility. And anyway, it's not like I indulge in highly sociopathic behavior based off this belief.

reply to post by randyvs


When you have a chance, check out this this NOVA program. Fast forward to the 17:00 minute mark to get a nice explanation of time/space and the concept of "now".... explains it much better than I ever could.
NOVA - Fabric of the Cosmos: The Illusion of Time

reply to post by Blarneystoner


Righto Blarney ! I can do that tonight and thank you for the link.

Originally posted by BruceEFury
The future can not be changed because it has simply not happened yet,
this is one of those thoughts that hurt to think about, but we already know
that the universe doesn't branch off onto different path's (as far as we know).

The past and present is what shapes the outcome of our future,
but at the end of time we can conclude that Path A happened
so therefore Path A can not be changed. If you catch my drift.

Thank you for my afternoon brain strain

Very true, We cannot change a future that is unknown to us. Each one of us fallow one time line in space time.
But we can change the future timeline of another person; either by force or by passive or active influence.

We also have a calendar, A calendar is a time line that each and every one of us fallow in one way or another. We also have a clock that gives us the ability to adjust and fill our calendar time line. A calendar and a clock are tools we use to try and set our future references. We use these tools to be bale to cooperate with other coexisting time lines.

reply to post by spy66



As far as changing the future is concerned...

It is just a choice of what you want your now to be.

And making it so...

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by IAMIAM
reply to post by spy66

 

As far as changing the future is concerned...

It is just a choice of what you want your now to be.

And making it so...

With Love,

Your Brother

Being happy or sad are not always a personal choice. They are emotions of past and present events.
If one is truly honest about their own emotions, you can not honestly make a emotional choice that differ from what your feelings are providing you. You can force your self to be observed as a happy person on the out side visually, but you can not force what you feel inside.

reply to post by randyvs


Off course the future can be changed, so can the past, and so can the present.

The only thing that can not be changed is stupidity.

"Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain...Friedrich Schiller"