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Christianity, is it child emotional abuse?

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posted on Dec, 28 2011 @ 10:25 PM
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Originally posted by gabby2011

Originally posted by LunaKat
By any chance is this Lisa's Mom Catholic? Cause there is your answer. A few "Christians" that come to ATS will justify anything from someone from their own denomination.


It is not right to bash Wildtimes and forgive Lisa's Mom. Thats really skewed.



it is skewed to forgive someone for making a mistake?

Are you saying we should all stand up and call her trash.. and tell her how terrible she is .. because her child is missing..and she was drunk?.. Do we even know if her drink had not been spiked.. by the new neighbor..or someone else?

I have no idea if deborah is catholic.. and to say I would forgive her just because she is catholic.. is very presumptuous .

yes I would be a much better person to be calling her names before we even have all the facts of the case.

God has mercy for peoples mistakes.... and one someone is truly sorry .. He knows.

Many young parents make mistakes , with alcohol and drugs....I will not judge them and say they are totally terrible parents... though they maybe making some unwise choices that are irresponsible...and it will hurt their children.

What is this world if we don't have forgiveness for young parents mistakes?..even older parents?


Gabby what is skewed is your sense of right and wrong. Weren't you the one saying there are degrees of sinfulness? A concept I don't even believe..but we'll go with that for the time being. According to your degrees of sinfulness...how is it that Wildtimes is worse than that Mom? You have compassion and forgiveness for that Mom and what she did wrong but none for Wildtimes. Wildtimes was only speaking out against child abuse. I would think you would understand that. No???

I think the story is very tragic. I read the post under yours by Wildtimes and about the family and history of this happening. This is truly tragic.

I'm basically saying why you talking trash about Wildtimes? Where is your understanding? To me its really skewed.




posted on Dec, 28 2011 @ 10:27 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by LunaKat
 


Thanks, Luna. I know I'm supposed to put in a second line....
Lisa's mother is Deborah Bradley, whose baby mysteriously vanished while she was passed out drunk. Her mother (Deborah's mother) died when Deborah was a teenager, had been in AA for 8 years before her untimely death, and some people say that Deborah and her two brothers always suspected their father for murdering her..


This is awful but it shows what they say...abuse is passed down. It sounds like there was a real history of this in the family. Sadly.



posted on Dec, 28 2011 @ 10:34 PM
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reply to post by LunaKat
 



I'm basically saying why you talking trash about Wildtimes? Where is your understanding? To me its really skewed.


I think so, too. Thanks, again.




posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 08:56 AM
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Originally posted by gabby2011
reply to [url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread787182/pg19#pid13101065]post by

.... and to deny that I had done nothing wrong..when in my heart I knew I had.. would be lying to myself...as well as God.

There is nothing wrong with a child admitting they have done things that are displeasing to a loving God.
....


True, but there are many things wrong with an adult who would intimidate, browbeat a child into admitting to something the did NOT do wrong.

Those who stand idly by and watch it happen are not exactly innocent either.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 09:42 AM
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reply to post by LunaKat
 





Gabby what is skewed is your sense of right and wrong. Weren't you the one saying there are degrees of sinfulness? A concept I don't even believe..but we'll go with that for the time being. According to your degrees of sinfulness...how is it that Wildtimes is worse than that Mom? You have compassion and forgiveness for that Mom and what she did wrong but none for Wildtimes. Wildtimes was only speaking out against child abuse. I would think you would understand that. No???


before ever even knowing anything about this family wildtimes called her "ignorant trash" ..and she said she worked with counseling families...at one point...which I thought odd considering her harsh judgement.

She has since apologized for calling Debbie those names..

I never said she was worse than Debbie.. God has compassion and forgiveness for them both... and I'm sure will continue to have it.

If debbie is guilty of accidentally harming her child and covering it up.. she needs to be accountable ..but earthly laws or just that.. earthly laws.. and many escape justice from them..as well as those are who wrongfully convicted.

In the end it is the laws of heaven that reign supreme..and it is true sorrowful repentance that God grants mercy to...and wishes for us to do as well.

Wildtimes has stated to other members how they should never allow anyone to call them a failure..and how everyone is divine and connected to god.. yet she called Debbie a miserable failure many times.. and because I wouldn't agree to throw the same stones at debbie..she began harassing me.. and "psycho analyzing " me.

She and others were very unkind , and even cruel.. because I refused to "hate" debbie..though I did admit she made some very poor choices as a parent.

Why do you think Wildtimes would send me a u2u inviting to participate in her thread..and than bash me for stalking her?

She says it was because she thought we had reconciled.. but if you could read the u2u you could see clearly there were no intentions for reconciliation.. she simply wanted the opportunity to try and disrespect my beliefs and opinions.

I have reached a point in my life..where the judgements of other humans mean nothing.. in the end I know who I will be judged by..and who will give me grace for falling short.

I in no way condone children being mistreated.. and forced to lie.. but I also know that children do sin.. and there are very few (maybe none)12 year olds that can honestly stand before God and say.. "I have done nothing wrong."

I am content to know that God knows the heart of every human.. and though some may fool themselves..and perhaps others.. God is never fooled.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 10:10 AM
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Originally posted by gabby2011
..... and forced to lie.. but I also know that children do sin.. and there are very few (maybe none)12 year olds that can honestly stand before God and say.. "I have done nothing wrong."



So your saying, "All children are sinners" ??
CAREFUL......remember the part about being an enabler? Your running rather close to that right now.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 10:14 AM
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reply to post by vogon42
 





True, but there are many things wrong with an adult who would intimidate, browbeat a child into admitting to something the did NOT do wrong. Those who stand idly by and watch it happen are not exactly innocent either.


Thats right.. I agree.. thank goodness God has mercy on all those repentant military men who thought it was ok to have fun and games with the "local children" in the form of intimidation and cruelty.. while others stood by and watched.

We all have to be accountable for our actions someday.... and some pay a huge price for doing the right thing.

To fight against sinners like this.. full of mockery and hate..who love to abuse .. is often a very complicated task. prayer is the most powerful weapon.. but often when someone good tries to stop evil.. he pays with his life.

I'm sure there were men in the military who stood up against certain actions.. only to be mysteriously killed in some freak accident a few weeks later.

God knows all and sees all.. the intentions.. the motivations... and He will serve justice .. for those who do not seek His mercy.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 10:19 AM
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Originally posted by gabby2011
reply to post by LunaKat
 





Gabby what is skewed is your sense of right and wrong. Weren't you the one saying there are degrees of sinfulness? A concept I don't even believe..but we'll go with that for the time being. According to your degrees of sinfulness...how is it that Wildtimes is worse than that Mom? You have compassion and forgiveness for that Mom and what she did wrong but none for Wildtimes. Wildtimes was only speaking out against child abuse. I would think you would understand that. No???


before ever even knowing anything about this family wildtimes called her "ignorant trash" ..and she said she worked with counseling families...at one point...which I thought odd considering her harsh judgement.

She has since apologized for calling Debbie those names..

I never said she was worse than Debbie.. God has compassion and forgiveness for them both... and I'm sure will continue to have it.

If debbie is guilty of accidentally harming her child and covering it up.. she needs to be accountable ..but earthly laws or just that.. earthly laws.. and many escape justice from them..as well as those are who wrongfully convicted.

In the end it is the laws of heaven that reign supreme..and it is true sorrowful repentance that God grants mercy to...and wishes for us to do as well.

Wildtimes has stated to other members how they should never allow anyone to call them a failure..and how everyone is divine and connected to god.. yet she called Debbie a miserable failure many times.. and because I wouldn't agree to throw the same stones at debbie..she began harassing me.. and "psycho analyzing " me.

She and others were very unkind , and even cruel.. because I refused to "hate" debbie..though I did admit she made some very poor choices as a parent.

Why do you think Wildtimes would send me a u2u inviting to participate in her thread..and than bash me for stalking her?

She says it was because she thought we had reconciled.. but if you could read the u2u you could see clearly there were no intentions for reconciliation.. she simply wanted the opportunity to try and disrespect my beliefs and opinions.

I have reached a point in my life..where the judgements of other humans mean nothing.. in the end I know who I will be judged by..and who will give me grace for falling short.

I in no way condone children being mistreated.. and forced to lie.. but I also know that children do sin.. and there are very few (maybe none)12 year olds that can honestly stand before God and say.. "I have done nothing wrong."

I am content to know that God knows the heart of every human.. and though some may fool themselves..and perhaps others.. God is never fooled.



Gabby the whole thing is sad. And what is worse is its got you and Wildtimes arguing. Calling that child's mother "ignorant trash"...its anger at this stuff in society which is understandable. Its so hard not to get angry. A child can do nothing, has no real rights because the child isn't old enough yet. Society should get angry about this. If we don't who will? Its not good enough to wait till heaven or when she is supposed to be judged by God. Children need to be protected here and now. Fortunately if this mother is found to be guilty she will be dealt with by the courts.

Maybe you both should just agree to disagree? I don't know.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 10:21 AM
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reply to post by gabby2011
 


wow, gabs.
Just............wow.

Well, at least now I see more clearly your misperceptions, and the lengths to which you will go to discredit me. No amount of time or effort on my part will correct that. You have got me "so" wrong. But, oh well. I will leave it to the ATS document archivists to sift through our respective "files", and to the Divinity that dwells within you to release you from the sadness and anger that are eating you alive.

*shrugs*

Peace



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 10:25 AM
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Originally posted by gabby2011
reply to post by vogon42
 





True, but there are many things wrong with an adult who would intimidate, browbeat a child into admitting to something the did NOT do wrong. Those who stand idly by and watch it happen are not exactly innocent either.


Thats right.. I agree.. thank goodness God has mercy on all those repentant military men who thought it was ok to have fun and games with the "local children" in the form of intimidation and cruelty.. while others stood by and watched.

We all have to be accountable for our actions someday.... and some pay a huge price for doing the right thing.

To fight against sinners like this.. full of mockery and hate..who love to abuse .. is often a very complicated task. prayer is the most powerful weapon.. but often when someone good tries to stop evil.. he pays with his life.

I'm sure there were men in the military who stood up against certain actions.. only to be mysteriously killed in some freak accident a few weeks later.

God knows all and sees all.. the intentions.. the motivations... and He will serve justice .. for those who do not seek His mercy.


Sort of missed the point here gabby. Re-read the original post, and realize it is in reference to the CHURCH forcing / intimidating CHILDREN in to CONFESSION.

Once you understand that, feel free to reply.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 10:32 AM
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Originally posted by gabby2011
.....
I'm sure there were men in the military who stood up against certain actions.. only to be mysteriously killed in some freak accident a few weeks later.

.......


Sure, but thats called a government coverup, this thread is about how christians coverup child abuse, OK.
(specifically EMOTIONAL abuse, we already know they coverup sexual abuse....please leave that for another discussion)
Calm down, and try to stay on topic here.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 10:32 AM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by gabby2011
 


wow, gabs.
Just............wow.

Well, at least now I see more clearly your misperceptions, and the lengths to which you will go to discredit me. No amount of time or effort on my part will correct that. You have got me "so" wrong. But, oh well. I will leave it to the ATS document archivists to sift through our respective "files", and to the Divinity that dwells within you to release you from the sadness and anger that are eating you alive.

*shrugs*

Peace


My anger has been appeased much.. through the mercy and love of Jesus... though I still suffer sorrowful moments ..bu I am learning to unite them to the sufferings of Jesus...who carries much sadness for this world.

It is not a sin to be sad... It can merely be an expression for a soul grieving a world that has far too much sin.

I will leave it to the holy angels to sift through what is archived.. as well as knowing the motivation and intent behind it.

They know much more about truth and intent than any archivist would..



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 10:35 AM
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All the prayer in the world is great as far as it goes but you gotta take a stand. When there is abuse if you say well I forgive and I'm just gonna pray about it, you really are giving it your stamp of approval. Why do think bullies can do what they do on a playground? Cause no one stops them. Why do neighbors hear women or children screaming being beaten but do nothing? We can't say well God will handle it. I'm just gonna pray about it.

We are God. All of us. If we don't stand up for those who can't stand up for themselves who will?? Isn't that part of being blessed? That we realize how lucky we are and try to give a leg up to those who aren't as lucky?

And what message does it send to the child when the adults don't get angry over this? The child learns its ok to be beaten or hurt. That no one cares.

Then society wonders why that child grows up and causes problems in the world. It starts early and it starts with the child feeling abandoned by everyone. Its gotta stop. Get angry, let kids know someone doesn't think its right. They need protection here and now.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 10:41 AM
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reply to post by vogon42
 





Sort of missed the point here gabby. Re-read the original post, and realize it is in reference to the CHURCH forcing / intimidating CHILDREN in to CONFESSION. Once you understand that, feel free to reply.



Umm.. sorry but I was never intimidated into going to confession.. I was taught what the sacrament meant at a young age..and always felt very good after I had come out of the confessional.

It felt good to tell God you were sorry for fighting with your siblings, even if you weren't the one who instigated the fight.

Now I can't speak for everyone, and those who have used the confessional to intimidate and lure children into sin.. again that is atrocious.

Sorry .. I was just commenting on that specific post.. and many many have used intimidation and cruelty towards children.. in many walks of life.. to sit and point a finger at the church.. and not talk about what happens in the military is hypocritical in my eyes.

Perhaps the secrets of soldiers should be put out there for all to see.. but then again we know what happens to those who expose the dark sides of the corrupted and perverted military personnel.

In the end.. God sees all.. and is the most just as well as most merciful judge.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by gabby2011
reply to post by vogon42
 





Sort of missed the point here gabby. Re-read the original post, and realize it is in reference to the CHURCH forcing / intimidating CHILDREN in to CONFESSION. Once you understand that, feel free to reply.



........ to sit and point a finger at the church.. and not talk about what happens in the military is hypocritical in my eyes.
......



OK, lets try this again.

This post is about abuse by the CHURCH.
(did you notice that key word CHURCH)?
Thats because we are talking about abuse in the CHURCH.

(perhaps meds for ADD would help you stay on topic)
Anyway, try to remember this discussion is about abuse by the CHURCH.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by LunaKat
 





All the prayer in the world is great as far as it goes but you gotta take a stand. When there is abuse if you say well I forgive and I'm just gonna pray about it, you really are giving it your stamp of approval. Why do think bullies can do what they do on a playground? Cause no one stops them. Why do neighbors hear women or children screaming being beaten but do nothing? We can't say well God will handle it. I'm just gonna pray about it.


I understand what you mean entirely.. and action is needed.. but it needs to be coupled with prayer. I have called cops numerous times, for different scenarios..especially with children involved.

You end up getting a bad rap with the police if you call 911 too often, and charges aren't laid. Now they can even charge you a fine for calling 911 if they feel it wasn't worth it...and it is in the thousands of dollars.

In certain situations actions will not change anything.. but prayer might. In certain situations actions will get you killed.. and what you tried to stop still continues as ever before.

I do understand that we need to take a stand.. but we need wisdom to know when the right time is..and the best way to go about doing it...I think prayer helps with this.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 10:53 AM
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reply to post by vogon42
 





OK, lets try this again. This post is about abuse by the CHURCH. (did you notice that key word CHURCH)? Thats because we are talking about abuse in the CHURCH. (perhaps meds for ADD would help you stay on topic) Anyway, try to remember this discussion is about abuse by the CHURCH.


Its funny how you continually remind me what this thread is about.. but don't seem to call others out on their off topic posts.. and you have quite a few yourself..

Maybe I need to start a thread about child abuse in the military..though I would never blame all of the military for the actions of the perverted and demented amongst them... but how many stood around and watched?



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 11:00 AM
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Originally posted by gabby2011

I understand what you mean entirely.. and action is needed.. but it needs to be coupled with prayer. I have called cops numerous times, for different scenarios..especially with children involved.

You end up getting a bad rap with the police if you call 911 too often, and charges aren't laid. Now they can even charge you a fine for calling 911 if they feel it wasn't worth it...and it is in the thousands of dollars.

In certain situations actions will not change anything.. but prayer might. In certain situations actions will get you killed.. and what you tried to stop still continues as ever before.

I do understand that we need to take a stand.. but we need wisdom to know when the right time is..and the best way to go about doing it...I think prayer helps with this.



Like I said prayer is great about as far it goes. In dire situations there are ways of achieving results much quicker and the example is calling the police or going out and looking for the child. If prayer was to be used by itself or as the main course of action no child would be missing more than about an hour --long enough to alert people to pray. No toddler would be laying in a hospital dying of cancer --they got people praying too. Prayer is good as far as it goes but mainly it helps the person praying..gives them a boost to their belief. Steadies them when they are overloaded.

Well frivolous calls to emergency services are a problem We just had in the news here where a guy called emergency services because his phone didn't work and he wanted them to fix it. He kept calling 911. They kept telling him they don't fix phones. He was drunk obviously. But yeah they fine people like that



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 11:06 AM
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Originally posted by gabby2011

.....Maybe I need to start a thread about child abuse in the military..though I would never blame all of the military for the actions of the perverted and demented amongst them... but how many stood around and watched?



Well, OK, go start that thread. I'd be curious to know what personal experience and facts you have.

Just put them on your new post, not this one.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by vogon42

Originally posted by gabby2011

.....Maybe I need to start a thread about child abuse in the military..though I would never blame all of the military for the actions of the perverted and demented amongst them... but how many stood around and watched?



Well, OK, go start that thread. I'd be curious to know what personal experience and facts you have.

Just put them on your new post, not this one.


I have facts.. but as you know much of this stuff is well hidden..

The fact remains nothing is hidden from God.. within His church.. or outside of the churches.



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