The medical system in the U.S. is indeed broken but let's look at the real reason it's broken.

The problem always brought up: Normal, everyday people cannot afford an average stay in the hospital.

The root problem: THE COST OF MEDICAL CARE

This administration's answer to the problem: Shift the cost of medical care of one person to others. Everyone pay their fair share of everyone's medical expenses.


So... what about the real problem? It never gets fixed and the corporations running hospitals and big Pharma never have to change how they are fleecing America.

Just as the Banking industry goes so does the Medical industry. There is no difference, except some American citizens (along with the President) have decided that we really just want to ignore the FACT of the root problem.

Just another indication of corporatism in America... don't fall for this shifting of responsibility from corporations bringing down the big bucks at the expense of Americans' health.

And why do you think the root problem is the "cost of medical care"?
While this cost is indeed high, it's not that much lower eg. in Europe. Doctors are amongst the richest people, and health care can costs THOUSANDS. Do you know for example how much it costs to have someone in a home...or surgery..etc..etc.. It's expensive here...but also in many other countries.

You saying the "root problem is the cost" is like saying "the problem when it always rains is the water"...seriously...


Edit: And let's just hypothetically reduce the cost of a $100.000 surgery to...say... $20.000..which would be a SINGIFICANT reduction....but i think for a poor family it doesn't matter whether they have a $100k medical bill or a $20k medical bill. In both cases they would be broke.

Originally posted by flexy123
And why do you think the root problem is the "cost of medical care"?
While this cost is indeed high, it's not that much lower eg. in Europe. Doctors are amongst the richest people, and health care can costs THOUSANDS. Do you know for example how much it costs to have someone in a home...or surgery..etc..etc.. It's expensive here...but also in many other countries.

We are agreeing apparently. Socialized medicine keeps medical costs high because it's not combating the cost of the service, it is just spreading that cost around.

America's Medical System is non-existent because we spend our money on war and hardware for war.


Our military's had more "More Expensive than the Manhatten Project" projects in the last 10 years than you have fingers.

The THAAD missile defense system.....for what that single project cost us we all could have free healthcare.

If we weren't pouring hundreds of Billions into the former Soviet Territories trying to buy them off as our friends....we'd all have free healthcare.

The problem with America right now is that there is NOBODY controlling the Global Conquest plotters.

11 Aircraft Carrier Battle Groups....what on Earth for? We must be a nation of Death....not life.

The cost of medical care is a very complex thing. I am in agreement with you for the most part. Having much experience in the medical field I can tell you that older, cheaper medications that are just as, if not more effective get passed up routinely for the new, expensive designer drug that is the flavor of the month. Thorazine Vs. the plethora of newer drugs for example. Thorazine could be used for psychosis, anxiety, and nausea. Had a few side effects but not too bad for short term use. It's dirt cheap, easy to make, and works great, but is almost never used anymore because we have 20 or 30 new benzos that cost way more, and have jazzy new names, and much larger profit margins.

So while there is absolutely a lot of greed, and waste, and profiteering modern medicine is, and always will be expensive. The reason is because we have all come to expect Cadillac medicine. We have such a capacity to do so much now that we all expect everything to be done all the time. Diseases, and injuries that would have just killed us 25 or 30 years ago we are surviving. We can kick the dead horse so to speak nigh unto forever. However the equipment, techniques, and services to pull off these everyday miracles are expensive.

Also as harsh, and blunt as it sounds to say we spend well over half of our healthcare dollars on futile care to make you feel better about Uncle Joe's passing so you won't sue us. I have opened vials of $10K medication knowing full well that there wasn't a snowball's chance it was going to work, but the family wanted "everything" done, and so we do it. Bottom line? Uncle Joe died with $10K worth of medication in his arm that the family had no way of paying for, but you helped pay for it if you have medical insurance. If that family had to hock the family car, take out a loan, or get a second mortgage on the family home for that 1 in a million $10K shot, I think they would have thought twice about it, but from their perspective it was basically free, so what the heck? Why not? Uncle Joe was 87 years old with diabetes, COPD, on dialysis, and had mentioned his wish to go see his long passed relatives, but we just couldn't let him go without trying. Yet if trying had PERSONALLY cost them tens of thousands for a long shot, the thinking, and self justification would be far different.

On the other hand if it is a person in otherwise good health, and stands a decent chance of going on to have a good quality of life for a significant time afterward then by all means pull out the stops. What's money compared to the value of a life? So the conundrum is that we spend so much money saving Uncle Joe at 87 years old that the system is already over burdened, and that makes providing that high level "miracle" care hard when we really need it because everyone wants to miracle Uncle Joe into immortality.

Making the decisions as to who should get what level of care is a powder keg. Logically it is insane to spend the amount of money we do on futile care, but we are not logical beings we are emotional. We spend billions of dollars every year to assuage the feelings of people loosing their own life, or a loved one. Should we just deny any care decided by a panel to be futile? Should we make care past a certain point private pay only? There are no easy answers. It's easy to crunch numbers, and say "Look at all that waste." It is hard to look a human being in the eye, and tell him his care is too expensive for the meager chance of success, and we aren't even going to try. Most people, and most doctors just can't do it. It is cruel, and offensive to our sensibilities. Yet it is a huge chunk of our healthcare problem. It easily out weighs the greed, and corruption aspects.

I am not endorsing, or proposing that healthcare should become a cruel numbers game. I do think however that ethics commitees, and multidisciplinary teams should weigh the needs of the hopeless, against the needs of the saveable, and think more long term. They may feel bad, and be the bad guy, and risk litigation with an angry family, and displaced anger is a big issue when dealing with the pain, and loss of a family member, but the system is indeed broke, and not just financially. Healthcare right now is kind of like fast food. We all want big greasy burgers, and we want them NOW. We will pay for it later, but we want it all for now. Same in healthcare. We want our family members to live, and live forever! Damn the cost! So we spread around this huge burden of debt in the insurance risk pool for people who really didn't have a chance to begin with. So of course in that environment corporations will charge all they can for something that is demanded, and people will basically pay anything for it. Law of supply, and demand. The demand is astronomical, so guess where the price is set? We are irrational, emotional creatures that pay an insane price to try, and accomplish the improbable. Were it my family, I'd be just as insane.

The one thing alot of people don't factor in when mentioning the amount of money doctors make is that becoming a doctor (a specialist) takes around 15 years. You work long hours and have no life. You don't get paid much. Yes, surgeons and specialist medical professionals make alot of money. But it comes at a big cost for the doctor too.

So before you all bitch about rich doctors, think about whether you would be willing to dedicate your life to difficult, super competitive training, long shifts, abuse from families (not least your own), being responsible for the deaths of patients... No-one in their right mind would become a doctor just for the money.

EDIT TO ADD:

The biggest problem I see is the fact that there is no shortage of willing and able people to undertake medical training, but the fact that the medical establishment wants to keep it exclusive. There are also limited positions for internships and of course, some specializations (all areas of surgery for example) are extremely exclusive. In Australia, there are currently not enough intern positions available for all medical graduates. There might be around 1000+ medical graduates per year, but as few as 750 - 800 internship positions.

The solution would ideally be more hospitals, more medical school positions. The average person is probably still as rich as they were (exponentially) 20 years ago, but we have more health problems than ever before. Yes, research has lead to better treatments than ever before, but research costs big bucks (you're paying teams of scientists, paying the running costs of expensive machinery and expensive reagents, paying patent costs, paying ridiculous insurance). You are paying for the cost of the research. Getting a hospital bed or a doctor's appointment is more expensive and as much as doctors strive to deliver the best treatment possible, due to an individual's financial situation, location, family or work commitments, it doesn't always work. Not least, the hospitals are usually filled to capacity and beds are not always going to be available until you are in a critical condition or able to afford private health care. It sucks, but it is basically up to our governments alone to fix the problem by allocating more funding and training positions.

The root of the problem is that medical care, and Insurance have not just become "for profit", they have become for Major profit.

Most Newer Doctors will tell you this. They are forced to work for large medical corporations, who pay them very little compared to the debt the endure from education fees.

This forces many doctors to have to work as many hours as possible to just break even, this can hurt the moral and ability to see a patient as a person, and not just another "body", and a drain on the Doctors system that can make them miss judge a situation.

Most of the time the pricing is set by the medical physicality's parent corporation, and the insurance companies they partner with.

No matter how noble a medical students initial intent would be, fact is, the system is setup to wear them down and no longer see a "person", behind the problem.

What makes it worse, is now we are seeing a large increase in Indian Doctors (not because they are smarter, because they can afford it), and the Indians believe in a Cast system. The Cast system makes them feel as if they are superior over those they are administering medical care to. This leads to a "Gods punishing these people and is rewarding me, so I'll charge and do what ever I want".

Originally posted by tw0330


What makes it worse, is now we are seeing a large increase in Indian Doctors (not because they are smarter, because they can afford it), and the Indians believe in a Cast system. The Cast system makes them feel as if they are superior over those they are administering medical care to. This leads to a "Gods punishing these people and is rewarding me, so I'll charge and do what ever I want".

This is also because they have recognised qualifications and it is cheaper for foreign (ie US, UK, Australian, etc) governments to install them as doctors than train their own.

The really sad thing is that a country is only as healthy as it's people. If the majority of the workforce (e.g. in a country that relies on low-cost manufacturing), if the workforce gets sick and is unable to work, the country suffers.

Simply Put. The problem is:

Medical Treatment is now "Big Business" (Doctors now have to work for a "network")

Medicine is now "Big Business" ("Keep em Drugged, they'll never know what's really happening")

Payments are now "Big Business" (Just what exactly are we paying for)

Pharmacies are now "Big Business" (do you know your pharmacist?)

Doctor Education is now "Big Business" (Sally loves her minimum payments)

Government is now "Big Business" ("help us get through the "Red Tape" and your stocks will sore")

Fact is they are all working together to create a system to make it so they can profit off of the sick and helpless in the moment of need, and to make people slaves to ongoing medical expenses.