Asking for members opinions...Do you think the Coverup of existance of E.T. to be good or bad?

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by bluestreak53

 

As STEVE has confirmed in a previous post....there have been several mentions....besides the one he has found tht documents two F-104's carrying NUCLEAR TIPPED AIR TO AIR MISSLES....taking off....and this is documented....to intercept...what was afterwards put into record as a mistaken response to the Light of the Planet Venus.

I have been around SAC and other USAF bases my whole life and this public release of info is the most rediculous thing I have EVER heard. First of all....they had Nuclear Tipped Air to Air Missles back then as a way to bring down large groupings of Soviet Nuclear Bombers....with a blast large enough to destroy a sky full of them at altitude.

The idea....that the USAF would be so inept....which they are NOT....to fix F-104's with NUKES over a misread of a threat is LUDICROUS! It would NEVER HAPPEN! The only way that they would even get clearence to FIX a NUKE to an Interceptors wing....and this is ALOT more risky than flying a Failsafe Mission with internal Bombs...is if they KNEW there was a threat on RADAR and were going after it. Also...clearance for this type of action takes time....so the UFO's must have been repeatedly overflying the base....for these planes to be locked and loaded with NUKES. Split Infinity

I'm not sure why it is particularly notable that the 104s might have been equipped with "nuclear tipped" air-to-air missiles. They did after all also have nuclear air-to-air missiles on the later model F-89s.

About the F-89:
The final variant was the F-89J. This was based on the F-89D, but replaced the standard wingtip missile pod/tanks with 600 gal (2,271 l) fuel tanks and fitted a pylon under each wing for a single MB-1 Genie nuclear rocket.

The Genie was the world's first nuclear-armed air-to-air weapon and was the most powerful interceptor missile ever deployed by the U.S. Air Force. In 1954 the Douglas Aircraft Co. began work on a small unguided nuclear-armed air-to-air missile and started full-scale development a year later. In 1955 and early 1956, F-89D Scorpion aircraft made the first test firings. The top-secret project had several code names, including "Bird Dog," "Ding Dong" and "High Card." Finally, it was designated MB-1 and called the Genie. The MB-1 became operational in 1957, and the first and only live firing of a nuclear Genie was July 19, 1957. Powered by a Thiokol SR49 solid-fueled rocket motor, it was armed with a 1.5-kT nuclear warhead and had flip-out fins for flight stability. F-89J, F-101B and F-106A interceptors carried the Genie. The firing aircraft had to pull away in a sharp turn to escape the blast after launching the weapon, a challenging feat for subsonic fighter jets.


In any case, I do believe that the USAF did consider using its most lethal weapons against ET ships in the 1950s, but I think its possible they decided to back down from this aggressive response when the aliens started capturing (and keeping) the USAF interceptors and crew.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Pimander

 

Pimander....I think I remember hearing talk about this but I think that it was conjecture that doesn't pan out....but I could be wrong. It's hard to believe that...even the strongest radar broadcast could bring down craft that can handle the Solar and Cosmic radiation outside our atmosphere....but who knows?
Split Infinity

It is likely a craft would be designed to account for known natural hazards like solar and cosmic radiation. A very high-powered, but still single-frequency monochromatic microwave is not a naturally occurring phenomenon and in physics is totally different from solar radiation. Always in engineering there are tradeoffs---you can make something robust to X but at what cost in performance and at what cost in cost?

It is not unreasonable to suppose that if there were interstellar ETs that even for ET interstellar travel might be dangerous and expensive and near the limits of their technology, like landing a small rover on Mars is at the limits of our technology and was pretty darn expensive. We can land a small rover there, but if a martian took a swift kick and knocked the Mars rover on its back, it would be helpless.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity

I have been around SAC and other USAF bases my whole life and this public release of info is the most rediculous thing I have EVER heard. First of all....they had Nuclear Tipped Air to Air Missles back then as a way to bring down large groupings of Soviet Nuclear Bombers....with a blast large enough to destroy a sky full of them at altitude.

The idea....that the USAF would be so inept....which they are NOT....to fix F-104's with NUKES over a misread of a threat is LUDICROUS! It would NEVER HAPPEN! The only way that they would even get clearence to FIX a NUKE to an Interceptors wing....and this is ALOT more risky than flying a Failsafe Mission with internal Bombs...is if they KNEW there was a threat on RADAR and were going after it. Also...clearance for this type of action takes time....so the UFO's must have been repeatedly overflying the base....for these planes to be locked and loaded with NUKES. Split Infinity

Right.

The primary assumption then (remember, prior to any satellites or early warning technical systems) was that any group of UFOs was a Soviet attack fleet until proved otherwise.

And yes, getting clearance to fly with live nukes on external carriage is extremely serious (planes crash etc) and the only time that would happen would be if they were actually engaged on a combat alert.

I'm not sure why it is particularly notable that the 104s might have been equipped with "nuclear tipped" air-to-air missiles. They did after all also have nuclear air-to-air missiles on the later model F-89s.

That the F-104's were so capable is not notable. If as was claimed, they actually did take off on a mission with such weapons is notable, because they almost never did for training.

The later B-52 strategic alert did have airborne nukes continuously, but that was not at all standard practice for tactical aircraft. Even these days, when was the last time a real nuclear weapon has flown on a non-strategic aircraft?

By accident a couple of years ago a few ALCM's were accidentally affixed witih real-warheads for transfer instead of the usual dummy ones, and that was a giant screwup and violation of rules. And that wasn't on fighter planes.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by rickyrrr

 

You have stated many valuable points. One point however I think you should be looking at a different group as far as a coverup. This being....Clean, Advanced production of Energy. Most of the tech. that has been recovered is so byond us in it's workings and understandings....that we well be at it for centuries before we can find an adequate use for it.

However...I am fairy certain about this next statement....HUMAN TECH....has come to a point where we already have a form of Low Temp. Fusion Generation technique. This tech. is being held back by Greedy Politicians and Energy Companies.
......
This is how it will be for an Energy company that makes a power plant that can generate unlimited and cheap energy. Not enough profit. Split Infinity

I disagrree.

A) the military would LOVE cheap energy, they spend a huge amount of money hauling fuel for vehicles and generators supplying remote outposts, and these convoys are very vulnerable.

B) Wealthy industrial companies would love to sell machinery as long as they could get a lucrative service contract. No energy is truly "free"---it takes capital to make the machinery and expertise to maintain it. The fuel for a wind-plant is free but power from wind isn't. Are hydroelectric dams free? No. If the technology were known and commercially available, there is enough rich capitalist motivation to bypass fossil fuel companies. General Electric, Siemens and 20 Chinese companies would jump on it.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by pascalt

 

So also did I think. It always starts with wide eyed woder and excitement and dreams of possibilities. Then next comes the information....then all of the previous metioned changes to worry, dread....and bewilderment. The reality of something is rarely what a person invisions.

Wonderous...Grandure...sure....but with Huge Oppertunity comes Massive risk. The hardest thing of all to deal with is your own ego. I am smart...very smart....and have a Huge Ego....well...some people cannot deal with some realities and what was once a very actionable, can doer....turns into a....I am very smaller!

The Key to dealing with such form of a reality is in a persons ability to adapt. A company once had a slogan...Either adapt tp rapid changes or loose out! In this case....Either adapt to rapid changes of perception and understanding that you will NEVER...no matter how hard you try...or how hard you study....will NEVER UNDERSTAND!

You keep on saying that if people knew, they would wish they didn't, but you never explained why.

Maybe what you said above is the crux of it: that when you Get Told, you Get Told about a whole host of very frustrating problems and potential dangers that actually don't have any good explanation, and it's because asshole ETs are keeping them in the dark.

If you can deal with this concept...and many people have said they could but they could not....and without having the Glimpse...such as I have had....you will neve know if you can or cannot deal. Believe me...there has been DECADES of study on how to prepare individuals....who were needed....and were asked to be a part...and they tried EVERYTHING they could to prepare a person...but nothing works.

You either DEAL....or you shut down. THAT is the worry about DISCLOSURE! Everything and everyone just....shutting down....like turning off a light switch. So be careful what you wish for! Split Infinity

I don't think there is any doubt that there was and is , a huge coverup. What started out perhaps as a national security issue soon blossomed into huge black budgets, incredible personal wealth and clandestine deeds that caused alot of people to be killed. Then there are the abductions, possible government collusion with ET and the possible discovery of an energy source while cheap as hell, would ruin the petroleum industry (the cornerstone of current economy) and of course, this is a worldwide phenomena.

The truth will come out, but it is going to be a slow process. I believe it is really starting to happen right now.

You pull this rabbit out of it's hole too fast, and there will be nothing good for anyone. You think our economic condition is bad now? Wow....

Originally posted by pascalt

and Evil ETs? If some ETs are evil, I also want to know. If reptilians or other evil races are doing bad things on earth, if they are linked to some "families / genetic bloodlines" etc. then we need to know (because ignoring it means we can't make things better).

Really? Take a look at the presidential candidate debates. If ETs were real and Not Nice, almost all of them would be trying to one-up each other about who can be the most insanely xenophobic nuclear warmonger and police-state fascist. They'd advocate pre-emptive orbital nuking and massive DHS surveillance and roundups, with forcible "medical" examinations and quarantines. Then on talk radio you'd hear about whether it is better to imprison or exterminate those unfortunates with targeted 'bloodlines', and the political hosts would insinuate that the victims are really collaborators in order to assuage their slight moral qualms.

Ron Paul would try to point out that provoking people with a greatly superior technology is a really bad idea and maybe we should just try to leave them alone, but of course he'd be shunted aside as having surrender-monkey alien-lover views.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by manontrial

 

I respect your answer but....question...as I asked on a previous post to another....what if the coverup was part of a deal between Humans and E.T. to limit abductions...because without the deal...they could do what they wished? Split Infinity

Who is enforcing this deal with ETs?

What does mean-abducting-ET gain from the deal? If they could do what they wished without it, why agree to restrictions? What's in it for them?

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by beezzer

 

Really!?....I love G.B....and have been there many times over the years for various reasons. If your statement is true....you should be able to answer this....what is McNamara's Folly? Split Infinity

Is this a trick question?
Some sort of Cuba/communist Vietnam thing (off the top of my head)

I'll google to make sure.

a) Vietnam War
b) F-111
c) Knox-class

I wish I could tell you of some of my experiences

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Not to diminish this thread in anyway, but feel free to share some of your experiences. I believe there are forum headings with personal experiences in mind on ATS and I am sure people would be happy to read about them. I find that some of those threads are more interesting than a lot of the threads designed for flags and stars.

I have experienced seeing a person who wants to change their countries reality with such conviction that they are willing to brave certain death....sometimes they pull it off....a lot of times they do not. And I am not talking about under penalty of a quick clean Death such as a bullet to the head....but penalties of a slow torturous death....but they still go with optimism and a smile.

I think the above is a testament to what makes us human. We may not all have such strength of conviction regarding making changes but when we feel we are right and correct in something, we get to a point where we no longer fear. I think that makes us a courageous, tenacious bunch. Some would say silly but it also makes us unpredictable, able to think outside boxes when we need to and problem solvers. I did not quote the rage issue as we all have this sort of turbulence within us, it is more about learning patience when some are not as quick on the uptake or when we are frustrated with others. A favorite piece of mine is:

Desiderata.

Go placidly amid the noise and the haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible; without surrender be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant, they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit.

If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.

Exercise caution in your business affairs, for the world is full of trickery. But let not this blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals, and everywhere life is full of heroism. Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass. Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth.

Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore, be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be. And whatever your labors and aspirations in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace in your soul. With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams; it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful.
Strive to be happy.


--- Max Ehrmann, 1927

I am sorry about your childhood friend's son. It is tragic when parents have to bury their children and when skilled young men are taken from the world before their time. You have a right to be angry and outraged. We should all be more so in this day and age regarding wars when something as simple as diplomacy could save so many lives.

Interesting thread and discussion. Thanks

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
I am trying to get an idea on how this group...ie...people who post on a E.T. and UFO board....thinks about this topic. I would like to see how many think the coverup is a good thing or a bad thing for the sake of Humanity and if so...why they believe so. Split Infinity

I'm not convinced that the government is covering up anything relating to "E.T.s", nor am I convinced that they even exist, but purely hypothetically speaking I think that if both were the reality, secrecy would be the best approach, not so much out of fear of public reaction as I believe most people are now receptive to the idea, based on recent polls, but rather in the interests of safeguarding our national security and maintaining an "edge" over the rest of the world.

Good for short term. Bad for long term.

In the short term it will cause mass hysteria, and upheaval of social system.

In long term it will lead to spiritual and evolution growth for our species.

well, it's bad from a human progress perspective; we could be promoted to a planet with a connection to the rest of the civilizations all talking to each other out there in no time at all, if "they" thought we could handle it. And therein lies the problem..religion.

See, alien contact accounts for much of what's in the bible, koran and so forth. clear proof of alien life would kill the stranglehold that religion has on humans right now, and killing that stranglehold would also be good. However, the TRANSITION from one to the other would result in all kinds of war and death. And the people who keep us enslaved don't want their slaves being freed; they would rather kill most of us off than allow it. CONTROL IS EVERYTHING TO TPTB. So, we'd need alien intervention to pull it off, and I doubt they'd want to get that deep into our civilization to do what would need to be done. I mean, we're one planet in a nowhere area of space in a galaxy and solar system that may have once been militarily important(structures on the moon/mars, pick your source on aliens wars that I think went down and may still be happening to a certain extent), but isn't so much anymore. So, they probably have no compelling reason to get into it. So, yes, bad, but with the caveat that a lot of people will die if disclosure ever comes about.

I think the cover-up is a good thing because if it's true, then that means the aliens want it covered up. Maybe they have our best interests at heart and there's a very good reason they're trying to stay out of site.

If ET does exist and if ET is visiting earth and if the Government knows about it........A lot of ifs there.......

But anyway.....

I think its good that its covered up. I think that a lot of people on this planet would not be able to handle the truth. People would question their religions....they'd question our origins......everything that you thought you knew is now thrown into chaos and doubt........

Its easy to say that "we'd be able to handle it"....but speak for yourself. What about the guy sitting next to you? Want him freaking out over the whole ordeal and creating a huge domino effect?

It could turn really bad to be honest. It could be pandemonium on a huge negative level and someone in control (President, head of the CIA, Government et al) would have A LOT of questions to answer.

Not to mention, if we dont trust our Government and the whole establishment now, just think what would happen if the cat was let out of the bag after decades of deception.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
[...]
If you can deal with this concept...and many people have said they could but they could not....and without having the Glimpse...such as I have had....you will neve know if you can or cannot deal. Believe me...there has been DECADES of study on how to prepare individuals....who were needed....and were asked to be a part...and they tried EVERYTHING they could to prepare a person...but nothing works.

You either DEAL....or you shut down. THAT is the worry about DISCLOSURE! Everything and everyone just....shutting down....like turning off a light switch. So be careful what you wish for! Split Infinity

Sorry but I would disagree with this fact. If "knowing" means that we gain this secret new knowledge, and assuming that knowing does not bring any direct ill effect (ie. on physical health, friends and family) then I am confident that knowing will not make ME shut down.

I am ready to take the truth whatever it is, in fact I would love so much to know at least some of the truth.

After thinking more about this, I came to the conclusion that, whoever wants to know the TRUTH should be able to, and should be forbidden to tell other people unless they too want to know... It would be hard to enforce. I hope that one day, one will be able to share with me pieces of this truth

I love life and my human friends, I love nature and the universe, and I cannot wait to learn more and keep living a happy loving life with friends and family. I am confident I can do it. Thanks!

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
I am trying to get an idea on how this group...ie...people who post on a E.T. and UFO board....thinks about this topic. I would like to see how many think the coverup is a good thing or a bad thing for the sake of Humanity and if so...why they believe so. Split Infinity

This is a loaded question along the same lines as "Have you stopped beating your wife?" Your question presupposes that extraterrestrials exist, that that have visited Earth, that that visit has been discovered, and someone is actively covering up the visit. Since the existence of extraterrestrials has not been demonstrated your question cannot be answered.

Originally posted by -Blackout-
...

Its easy to say that "we'd be able to handle it"....but speak for yourself. What about the guy sitting next to you? Want him freaking out over the whole ordeal and creating a huge domino effect?

He says he's cool with it.

Originally posted by mbkennel


It is likely a craft would be designed to account for known natural hazards like solar and cosmic radiation. A very high-powered, but still single-frequency monochromatic microwave is not a naturally occurring phenomenon and in physics is totally different from solar radiation. Always in engineering there are tradeoffs---you can make something robust to X but at what cost in performance and at what cost in cost?

Actually, that is not true. Astrophysical masers have been known for some time. Sources include active galactic nuclei and molecular clouds. They are natural occuring sources.

I think it's bad criminal.

A lot of technology (not necessarily alien) and medical advancements are being held back. The people at the top withholding these things are scared that releasing anything too good and helpful will turn the tides against them and make people wake up to their lies faster, thus ending their control.