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Show me the proof!

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posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by autowrench
Greetings, IAMIAM, I will be happy to respond. I do not write empty words,


We shall see.




Originally posted by autowrench
in fact, some of what I say I really wish were not true, but it is.


Either you do not believe in the power of wishing or you do not truly wish it. If it is the former, you have written an empty word by using "wish", if it is the later then you intentionally deceive, ie tell lies.





Originally posted by autowrench I practice what I preach,


Not so far in this one post.


Originally posted by autowrench
so to say, in that I think and walk the Path I have chosen, Harming none, Helping all, and educating all who listen.
I am a seeker. I seek information, any or all of it, on most any subject matter you can think of. I try to get others to read, study, and research, everything. I take nothing on blind faith. I am a born septic in many things, and can see the conspiracy wherever it may be. I see no Establishment as Infallible, or above the Law, or above Reason and Logic.


I am not picking on you my friend. Just using your post to further illustrate how difficult it is to actually line up what one says with what one actually believes.

With Love,

Your Brother




posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
I'm struggling with how I can prove anything to someone else on the internet.


This is my point. You cannot prove anything to anyone with words.

With Love,

Your Brother


Okay, we agree on that principle. So what are you looking for in this thread. It could go 70 pages and all you'd have is people's words. If I were to give an assessment of my walk with Christ I would give myself a failing grade. I can always think of more I could have done, or I'm convicted when I miss the mark. But then again, if any of us could do it perfectly then He wouldn't have had to die for us. We're imperfect entities. But I thank God that we won't be judging ourselves, I wouldn't pass if I were the judge.

So, I realize you claim that you cannot trust what anyone says, but my answer to this thread would be one of wanting/lamenting that I have failed to live up to Christ's perfect standard.




edit on 17-12-2011 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 06:50 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
I'm struggling with how I can prove anything to someone else on the internet.


This is my point. You cannot prove anything to anyone with words.

With Love,

Your Brother


Okay, we agree on that principle. So what are you looking for in this thread. It could go 70 pages and all you'd have is people's words. If I were to give an assessment of my walk with Christ I would give myself a failing grade. I can always think of more I could have done, or I'm convicted when I miss the mark. But then again, if any of us could do it perfectly then He wouldn't have had to die for us. We're imperfect entities. But I thank God that we won't be judging ourselves, I wouldn't pass if I were the judge.

So, I realize you claim that you cannot trust what anyone says, but my answer to this thread would be one of wanting/lamenting that I have failed to live up to Christ's perfect standard.




edit on 17-12-2011 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)


Let me put this a different way my friend. If the legal definition of a Christian was declared to be, as you often say, "Little Christ's" meaning they held themselves to walk in Christ's foot steps, and to be declared would result in the death penalty, would there be enough evidence to convict you?

I did not ask for proof. I asked you to judge yourselves. I did not ask anyone to confess there sins. I asked that you evaluate yourself.

If you come up short, I forgive you. No big deal really.

I would like to know how I could help you not come up short again.

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 06:51 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
I'm struggling with how I can prove anything to someone else on the internet.


This is my point. You cannot prove anything to anyone with words.

With Love,

Your Brother


Okay, we agree on that principle. So what are you looking for in this thread. It could go 70 pages and all you'd have is people's words. If I were to give an assessment of my walk with Christ I would give myself a failing grade. I can always think of more I could have done, or I'm convicted when I miss the mark. But then again, if any of us could do it perfectly then He wouldn't have had to die for us. We're imperfect entities. But I thank God that we won't be judging ourselves, I wouldn't pass if I were the judge.

So, I realize you claim that you cannot trust what anyone says, but my answer to this thread would be one of wanting/lamenting that I have failed to live up to Christ's perfect standard.




edit on 17-12-2011 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)


My sentiments exactly. We could never measure up to him no matter how hard we tried, but at least we can try. Trying is better than doing nothing i suppose, we could do like some and be overtaken by a spirit of apathy.



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 07:00 PM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
My sentiments exactly. We could never measure up to him no matter how hard we tried, but at least we can try. Trying is better than doing nothing i suppose, we could do like some and be overtaken by a spirit of apathy.


This is not true. If we could never measure up to him, he would have said so. Instead he made it clear that we DO live up to him. His burden is light. But, you MUST believe what he taught or it will crush you.

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 11:02 PM
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reply to post by IAMIAM
 



Let me put this a different way my friend. If the legal definition of a Christian was declared to be, as you often say, "Little Christ's" meaning they held themselves to walk in Christ's foot steps, and to be declared would result in the death penalty, would there be enough evidence to convict you?


Yes, absolutely. But that doesn't mean that I wish I had even more faith, even greater self control, even more humble an attitude, et cetra. I hope I can be a better Christian tomorrow than I was today. Hopefully next year I can support more charitable causes than I did this year.

There is great room for improvement.



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 11:08 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Yes, absolutely. But that doesn't mean that I wish I had even more faith, even greater self control, even more humble an attitude, et cetra. I hope I can be a better Christian tomorrow than I was today. Hopefully next year I can support more charitable causes than I did this year.

There is great room for improvement.


What will increase your faith?

To have greater self control, one must first have the freedom to control themselves and not be controlled by outside forces. We are working on this one.

What does it mean to you to be a better Christian? How can I help you attain this goal you have set for yourself?

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 11:17 PM
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Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Yes, absolutely. But that doesn't mean that I wish I had even more faith, even greater self control, even more humble an attitude, et cetra. I hope I can be a better Christian tomorrow than I was today. Hopefully next year I can support more charitable causes than I did this year.

There is great room for improvement.


What will increase your faith?


Well, I believe faith is a grace of God to begin with so I pray for that grace. I know the Father hears and gives all good gifts His children ask for with a diligent, pure heart.



What does it mean to you to be a better Christian? How can I help you attain this goal you have set for yourself?


To follow His commandments more faithfully than I have in the past, to move past the "milk" and onto spiritual maturity as Paul exhorts us to. And the Christians "heavy artillery" is prayer, just pray for me is the best thing you can do for me.



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 11:21 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
And the Christians "heavy artillery" is prayer, just pray for me is the best thing you can do for me.


Then I will pray that you are graced with the resolve to be the very best Christian you imagine yourself to be.

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 11:24 PM
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reply to post by IAMIAM
 


"Best" makes Christianity sound like an Olympic sport. Please pray I'll be a much more faithful Christian.


Thank you regardless.



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 11:35 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by IAMIAM
 


"Best" makes Christianity sound like an Olympic sport. Please pray I'll be a much more faithful Christian.


Thank you regardless.


He'll know what I mean...

He knows our hearts. Our words are trivial pursuits.



With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Dec, 18 2011 @ 08:11 AM
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reply to post by IAMIAM
 




I am not picking on you my friend. Just using your post to further illustrate how difficult it is to actually line up what one says with what one actually believes.


I can see that. First of all, I do not have what some call "beliefs," which are generally set into stone, and can never be changed. I have Ideas instead. Ideas can change, and can be changed. Ne ideas can be added, old ideas can be discarded. I learn something new every day. But I do not have even one set in stone belief. Anything is possible, and most things are probable. I just learned a new idea last night, and incorporated it into my idea files, discarding another idea that was proved to be wrong.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 10:50 PM
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I try to do good but there are times where I let some people on other sites like facebook get the best of me and I go all mean on them. If they deserve it or not, I shouldn't be doing that because it's .... well, it has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with religion: it's a human thing all in all. We should respect others and that's the bottom line.

so no, I'm not as good as I should be.
Not at all.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 11:05 PM
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Oh I read the OP wrong. Only later when you clarified did I see what you mean.


Nope. I was brought up Christian - Methodist to be precise - from 1973 to ... current? I don't even know. Back through school I believed fully.
Since leaving home in 92 after graduating high school in 91 I have swayed. I believe for ages then I slip into Polytheist Agnosticism. Because that makes far more sense to me. Yet that long time of Methodism upbringing screams at me to return to God, yet I read all these atheist sites and talk to lots of atheist friends and it makes sense what they say, but not enough for me to fully say god/God/gods/goddesses don't exist now/never have existed .Yet I don't know for sure yes or no. Which is why polytheist agnostic works best for me. The definition as I can put it: I think it's possible that God/gods/goddesses could have/just may exist, but until you show me full on die hard in the face proof, I won't 100% put all my belief into it that it is 100% true.

But then I get scared I'm turning my back and 'what if' the Christian god is correct'?? But then it can't be cuz there are religions far older than Christianity that say the same thing Christianity later did when it started. O_O

No one knows what is right or wrong, but I don't want to give up a good eternity if the God with a million different names from a million different religious actually does exist - but I don't want to end up dying and you know. Nothing is there at all. Period.

I think if we live a good life and be kind and caring as we can, that's the answer. It doesn't come from any supernatural being. Or lack of one. It comes from inside.
So do I practice what I say I believe in?
I'm on a teeter totter right now. I have been for decades. One side is Christianity. The other side is the more sensible Polytheist Agnostic. For the Christianity side, no. I"m too shaky and wavey on the whole 'believe 100%' thing to be on that bandwagon fully. For the Polytheist Agnostic side, definitely. That makes more sense AND includes the Christian God as well so to me, that is the safest and most sense making belief there is for me. I can't be fully Atheist. No way. For how long we've been around and stories told etc., SOME god/God/goddess has had to have been around at some point/ could still be here just forgotten and pushed out of sight (if no one believes in you anymore, why even hang around, right, Zeus? Right, Thor? Right, Aphrodite? etc etc). The reason God hangs around is cuz many still firmly believe in him no matter if his name is God, Allah, Great Spirit, etc etc.



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 12:11 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
I'm struggling with how I can prove anything to someone else on the internet.


This is my point. You cannot prove anything to anyone with words.

With Love,

Your Brother


Okay, we agree on that principle. So what are you looking for in this thread. It could go 70 pages and all you'd have is people's words. If I were to give an assessment of my walk with Christ I would give myself a failing grade. I can always think of more I could have done, or I'm convicted when I miss the mark. But then again, if any of us could do it perfectly then He wouldn't have had to die for us. We're imperfect entities. But I thank God that we won't be judging ourselves, I wouldn't pass if I were the judge.

So, I realize you claim that you cannot trust what anyone says, but my answer to this thread would be one of wanting/lamenting that I have failed to live up to Christ's perfect standard.


edit on 17-12-2011 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)


I would say you have not failed to live up to Christ’s standard, what you have failed to do is believe in Christ standard.

What is Christ standard?
We all fall short of the glory of God and need Grace to save us. This is true.

What you may have failed to believe, or to have faith in, is this.



Romans 7:14:25
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold [m]into bondage to sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

21 I find then the [n]principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in [p]the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner [q]of the law of sin which is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from [r]the body of this death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.
Have the faith that a true separation of your spirit and flesh is possible, like what you imagine happens when your spirit leaves your body at death, only believe that it can happen now, before your physical body passes away. Have faith that God can do what he promises in these passages, and he will do it.


Maybe I am wrong but I imagine you resemble Paul in this passage from Roman’s 7. The church has taught you that this is about as good as you can be. But this in not what Paul says.

Read these verses as many times as you need to, to have the faith you need. Pray for the faith you need, and I will pray for you as well. What I am about to show you is the truth.



Ephesians 2:1-10
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— ...

Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

Romans 8:12-13
12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

1John 3:1-10
1 See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. 2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears,[a] we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. 3 All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.

4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.


It is possible to loose all desire to sin, and to stop committing willful sin. Because we are not perfect we may on occasion commit a sin without knowing we sinned. We may even have a reaction or thought that is sinful in nature.

The church has taught that we are to not take these verses literally, in which case no one would believe they could literally live free from slavery to sin. The bible is clear you can become free, you can loose all desire to sin, you can stop committing willful sin. In doing so you will become like Christ. Only Christ was perfect but it is enough for us to become like him.

Have the faith that a true separation of your spirit and flesh is possible, like what you imagine happens when your spirit leaves your body at death, only believe that it can happen now, before your physical body passes away. Have faith that God can do what he promises in these passages, and he will do it.

This has happened for me. Do not think that I am anymore righteous than you. I only had faith that God could do what he promised. Have faith that God has a way for you to become free from all desire to sin and it will happen.

I pray that you can accept what the Holy Spirit says through me so that you may also become free from the sin that still enslaves you.

Remember that Jesus has given you Grace, even though you may not have felt what I am talking about it does not mean that you are not saved. What it means is that I have believed in a gift and have received it, and you have yet to receive this gift. We are all special and all parts of the body of Christ. So whatever your gifts are, are of equal importance to mine.

I still must hold to the belief that by faith you will also receive the gift that frees you from sin.


edit on 25-1-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-1-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-1-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-1-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



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