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Swiss Government Declares Downloading for Personal Use Legal

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posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 01:18 PM
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Originally posted by AzureSky

Originally posted by Jepic

Originally posted by AzureSky
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Yeah,
Im all for downloading.
But not for re-distribution. If i download something it is for myself and myself only, and whome i decide to let share through listening or watching.
They don't need my 20 dollars, they already make thousands or millions. I need my 20. lol


Then get your twenty by blood, sweat and tears not by stealing it from a band.
We work hard. Work hard yourself.
edit on 17-12-2011 by Jepic because: (no reason given)


I do work.
I work my ass off so whiny ass people can continue to have TV and internet working in their homes. I attended college to do this. And struggling to pay bills and make rent with the girlfriends scaled back hours, she's going to college now too. Implying that that i do not work hard without knowing me is idiotic at best.

And as i said previously, most of the music i listen to, i have seen them all live. therefor, i have already paid to listen to the music, and so i can listen to it whenever i please. A concert ticket is no less than 40 dollars, twice the amount of the CD.


Never implied that you didn't work hard.

Well then we have no problem with you. We would if you started "sharing" the music or downloading it ilegally without profit to the label and artist/band.
edit on 17-12-2011 by Jepic because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by AzureSky
There are more prevalent issues than the big bad piraters.
Like violent crime
a screwed foreign policy
billions sucked from the economy.


There are more prevalent issues than crime, policy, and economy

Like climate destablization
starvation
earth ending asteroids uncharted that we aren't spending money on tracking.

See, everything can be dismissed for something bigger, and eventually nothing gets looked at.


Nothing gets looked at anyway. So whats your point? We have a bunch of people in office that dont give a # about anything but money, and making more of it at any cost, for them, the banks, and the globalist corporations.

If i knew for a fact that the 20 dollars i spent on went directly to benefiting the band or singer in question, then i would gladly support them in that way. But most of the money i spend on a cd doesnt ever see the band or singer.
And as for my local bands, most local bands still require to work a full or at least a part time job in order to survive, my money actually helps them. As opposed to it being negligible to a 'main stream' artist.

Exactly like how i do not support walmart, i buy from locally owned stores to support them.
edit on 17/12/11 by AzureSky because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 01:24 PM
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Originally posted by CaptainIraq

Originally posted by Jepic
I'm not assuming. It's obvious that if every car manufacturer charges for even test drives then they would see their losses decrease and their gains increase because it's a change that people will have to accept, because after all, everybody will need a car at some point in their life.

"It's obvious that..."

Well now you're just begging the question of whether or not adopting this policy will increase profits.

You say that this policy of charging for test drives will increase profits, and why? Because people will pay for the test drives of course...



Right... What the hell was your point with your latest comment...



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 01:26 PM
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Example. Kanye west made 70 million dollars this year!
Local rapper made 25k working part time and doing shows and selling his CDs.
Ill throw my money his way
edit on 17/12/11 by AzureSky because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by AzureSky
Example. Kanye west made 70 million dollars this year!
Local rapper made 25k working part time and doing shows and selling his CDs.
Ill throw my money his way
edit on 17/12/11 by AzureSky because: (no reason given)


Nice. As long as you throw money Kanye West's way when you decide to listen to his material. (As in buying his album.)



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by Maslo
Does this apply to torrents? In that case you are not only downloading, but also uploading to others.

Anyway, is it stealing? I wouldnt steal a car, but I would probably download one, if I could..


But I also do think that creators of content deserve some compensation, too.



Give it a couple of years and you will be able to download and print your own car


www.the-blueprints.com...

www.techthefuture.com...—-repraps-improved/

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by Jepic

Originally posted by AzureSky
Example. Kanye west made 70 million dollars this year!
Local rapper made 25k working part time and doing shows and selling his CDs.
Ill throw my money his way
edit on 17/12/11 by AzureSky because: (no reason given)


Nice. As long as you throw money Kanye West's way when you decide to listen to his material. (As in buying his album.)


Wouldn't happen, as i do not like kanye west because i think he is a terrible singer. But put the equivilent of my likes there and still no, he made 70 million dollars of his movies and acting roles. I think 70 mill is more than enough compensation for whatever downloaded materials were downloaded. 70 mil and people still downloading your stuff, seems pretty good to me. I would not be complaining in the least.

Which they don't, you hardly hear of anyone complaining about downloading their music, aside from metallica and the smashing pumkins (If there are more, please correct me. these are just the ones i know). Most of the people have enough money not to worry about it.

If you have 70 million and bitching about 2 million lost due to downloads, please die in a fire.

And note: Its mostly the RIAA that are whining about it, because they're not making as much money as they used to. Boo hoo. We all are not making as much as we used to.
edit on 17/12/11 by AzureSky because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by AzureSky

Originally posted by Jepic

Originally posted by AzureSky
Example. Kanye west made 70 million dollars this year!
Local rapper made 25k working part time and doing shows and selling his CDs.
Ill throw my money his way
edit on 17/12/11 by AzureSky because: (no reason given)


Nice. As long as you throw money Kanye West's way when you decide to listen to his material. (As in buying his album.)


Wouldn't happen, as i do not like kanye west because i think he is a terrible singer. But put the equivilent of my likes there and still no, he made 70 million dollars of his movies and acting roles. I think 70 mill is more than enough compensation for whatever downloaded materials were downloaded. 70 mil and people still downloading your stuff, seems pretty good to me. I would not be complaining in the least.

Which they don't, you hardly hear of anyone complaining about downloading their music, aside from metallica and the smashing pumkins (If there are more, please correct me. these are just the ones i know). Most of the people have enough money not to worry about it.

If you have 70 million and bitching about 2 million lost due to downloads, please die in a fire.

And note: Its mostly the RIAA that are whining about it, because they're not making as much money as they used to. Boo hoo. We all are not making as much as we used to.
edit on 17/12/11 by AzureSky because: (no reason given)


Die in a fire?!

I'm now full in to annihilate piracy. And annihilated it will be. Wait and watch.



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 01:43 PM
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reply to post by Vitchilo
 

there is an ethics code that most "pirates" adhere to, especially torrent users. it involves supporting developers that you enjoy by purchasing their game/movie afterwards and seeding torrents for an amount greater than what you downloaded.

people don't want to pay $60+ dollars for a game that might be a piece of crap, so they turn to torrents. if they like the game, most people end up buying it. the things people don't pay for are things they would never buy.

bottom line: if you make a good product, whether that be a movie or game or music, people who pirate it usually buy it later.



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 01:52 PM
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Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
reply to post by Vitchilo
 

there is an ethics code that most "pirates" adhere to, especially torrent users. it involves supporting developers that you enjoy by purchasing their game/movie afterwards and seeding torrents for an amount greater than what you downloaded.

people don't want to pay $60+ dollars for a game that might be a piece of crap, so they turn to torrents. if they like the game, most people end up buying it. the things people don't pay for are things they would never buy.

bottom line: if you make a good product, whether that be a movie or game or music, people who pirate it usually buy it later.


Usually a good product sells more than a crappy one regardless,
I dont download much anymore, usually just to test games, see if i like them. Like BF3, i downloaded it.. played a little. Liked it. Bought it.
Same with Fear 3.
And Starcraft II. Those are pretty much the only games i play.



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by sligtlyskeptical
Downloading Copyrighted information is stealing no matter how hard you want to defend it. You can justify it all you want, but it is still stealing. It would be a much better world if we were rid of the people that think stealing is ok. I'm sure you will all grow up thinking it ok to steal the extra money people have in their bank accounts that they aren't ever going to spend.

Just one more example of the complete moral void which encompasses the world.



I agree that stealing is wrong, but the best way to get a nicer world would be to get rid of all the greedy people...
2nd.



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by Jepic
I'm now full in to annihilate piracy. And annihilated it will be. Wait and watch.


And there are those full on in making it legal. If that happens you will not be suing anyone.

By the way it isn't theft. It is copyright infringment. The government give's the aritst exclusive rights to make copies and sell them. If someone makes copies then they are in violation of copyright law and this is not classified as theft, although there are those trying to make it this way.



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by LiberalSceptic

Originally posted by sligtlyskeptical
Downloading Copyrighted information is stealing no matter how hard you want to defend it. You can justify it all you want, but it is still stealing. It would be a much better world if we were rid of the people that think stealing is ok. I'm sure you will all grow up thinking it ok to steal the extra money people have in their bank accounts that they aren't ever going to spend.

Just one more example of the complete moral void which encompasses the world.



I agree that stealing is wrong, but the best way to get a nicer world would be to get rid of all the greedy people...
2nd.


Get rid of the stealers and you stop the "greedy" people.



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by Jepic
I'm now full in to annihilate piracy. And annihilated it will be. Wait and watch.


And there are those full on in making it legal. If that happens you will not be suing anyone.

By the way it isn't theft. It is copyright infringment. The government give's the aritst exclusive rights to make copies and sell them. If someone makes copies then they are in violation of copyright law and this is not classified as theft, although there are those trying to make it this way.


It's not that I won't be suing anyone, it's that you will have the quality of music you are pirating reduced to crap since the majority of people making music won't bother to either "share" their music or make music at all.



You are in catch two two, you lose either way. And this perpetual state of piracy we are currently in won't last for long. Sooner or later it's gonna get banned.

So pray it never becomes legal.
edit on 17-12-2011 by Jepic because: (no reason given)


edit on 17-12-2011 by Jepic because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by Jepic
It's not that I won't be suing anyone, it's that you will have the quality of music you are pirating reduced to crap since the majority of people making music won't bother to either "share" their music or make music at all.



So pray it never becomes legal.


Most is already crap and they are still making money. Real artists will always make music. If it becomes legal them all the ones in it just for the money might stop. Then the quality might increase. I'm all for legalized sharing.



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by Darth_Prime
As how it should be, it's not 'Stealing' as you are not taking physical property,

if you contemplate it within a wider space,

Example: a mate walks into a store, buys bread, walks out and hands you a slice, you didn't pay for so it's theft? that happens daily, i believe the terminology is 'Sharing'


bread is consumable. The analogy is incorrect.



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 02:21 PM
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Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by Jepic
It's not that I won't be suing anyone, it's that you will have the quality of music you are pirating reduced to crap since the majority of people making music won't bother to either "share" their music or make music at all.



So pray it never becomes legal.


Most is already crap and they are still making money. Real artists will always make music. If it becomes legal them all the ones in it just for the money might stop. Then the quality might increase. I'm all for legalized sharing.


We'll see.



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by Jepic
We'll see.


Napster was 10 years ago and your posting in a thread about another country making it legal. Coupled with all the countries where the laws are not enforced at that level and the number of artists that are using the web to get their art out instead of selling their rights to a recording company, I would say that we are already seeing.

edit on 17-12-2011 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by LiberalSceptic

Originally posted by Maslo
Does this apply to torrents? In that case you are not only downloading, but also uploading to others.

Anyway, is it stealing? I wouldnt steal a car, but I would probably download one, if I could..


But I also do think that creators of content deserve some compensation, too.



Give it a couple of years and you will be able to download and print your own car


www.the-blueprints.com...

www.techthefuture.com...—-repraps-improved/

en.wikipedia.org...


Yes, see, now this is actually a very interesting (if a bit geeky) subject matter to be had.
In the future, and perhaps not too distant future, the development of nanotech will in essence allow for the instant building of anything you can think of, be it a hamburger, a house, etc.

So what then...then the only thing people will have is information..and how should piracy be considered then? hmm..I think that what we are dealing with here is a pre-emptive move before the release of assembler tech to the public..see how its dealt with..will it be a pirate parade or a viable economic model of information trade and trademark/patent enforcement.

I would like for it to be a free for all type thing mind you, but there is no incentive for it to even be released if that is the main focus..

Anyhow, ok, so you pointed to 3d printers, but thats too small. do a google for nano-assemblers. now that is some impressive theoretical stuff being worked on...and suddenly this topic of information theft becomes far more than just a trivial matter.



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by eNumbra

Originally posted by Darth_Prime

Example: a mate walks into a store, buys bread, walks out and hands you a slice, you didn't pay for so it's theft? that happens daily, i believe the terminology is 'Sharing'


Except that in your example the bread is limited and can only be shared among so many people before another loaf has to be bought.

Digital sharing has no such limitation.

In theory, an artist could sell a single album which could be shared 6 billion times and everyone has a copy and only one sale was ever made.

I won't sit here and defend the actions of the corporations because they overreach like all hell; but neither will I sit here and defend the countless amounts of piracy. It may not be "theft" but you are taking something for free that would otherwise have cost you money.


I couldn't disagree with you more. For 20 years I've been copying games, music, film and tv. It's only recently they have tried to make it illegal.

All these film producers and record labels create their product knowing fine well that it will be downloaded illegaly. It's their choice to bring it out.

Nobodies taking anything, I'm downloading lots of bits of info on to my computer. No crime. If i'm making copies of that and selling it, however, is a crime.

Why does it bother you? Is it just because we are getting something for nothing?





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