are we in a police state?

is it weakening or evolving/strengthening?

What do you think?
I officially hate EVERYTHING about my country.
Then again, this ain't my country. I don't want it. This ain't what freedom signed up for. F*** it.

Ask the protestors that were shot and killed at Kent state in the 70's if they were in a police state. They'd say yes.

The Kent State shootings—also known as the May 4 massacre or the Kent State massacre—occurred at Kent State University in the U.S. city of Kent, Ohio, and involved the shooting of unarmed college students by members of the Ohio National Guard on Monday, May 4, 1970. The guardsmen fired 67 rounds over a period of 13 seconds, killing four students and wounding nine others, one of whom suffered permanent paralysis.

Originally posted by krossfyter
is it weakening or evolving/strengthening?

clearly weakening, as the more authority the police have and use of people takes away our freedom. It is about high time the police realised that they are being used and are hurting the people they are suppose to protect. I don't think the army would use force against its own people so why the police?

Thanks for the comments all. Someone typed this up recently about it....

"For the record, I don't think we've ever been a police state. But, as far as moving toward one or away from one, I'd say we have been moving away from one. Sure that has stalled a bit over the last nine years or so, but in comparison to where America has been, we're still much better than many decades ago.

If people think today is somehow worse, I'm not sure they remember American history. Around the turn of the 20th century, corporations had far more influence over government and everyday life. Then the Federal government expanded to meet that challenge. Yet, the Federal government swelled going into WWII, leading to a military industrial complex which guided the nation for decades until the end of the Cold War. Police abuses were also far more common before recent decades as reforms to police corruption brought us back from the horrible police actions of the 1960s and 70s. Only a few decades ago, police could get away with almost anything and face little to no recourse. Greater transparency and oversight have drastically improved that as we progressed into the late 80s and 90s. While the government has re-expanded to something more akin to the early 80s, it is still nowhere near what it once was. I support reigning it in, but I don't think I need to hyperbolize its problems for people to recognize that improvements continue to need to be made.

The United States is far from a police state. To say so would be to diminish the suffering of those legitimately in police states. The US has its issues, but throughout the 1900s, we moved from a nearly broken country to a superpower with greater freedom than most in the world. The police do not have the authority they once had, and the Federal government is not nearly as all-powerful as it once was. Changes do need to happen, but there's no reason for us to blow things out of proportion and ignore the many gains that have been made over the last century."


what do you all think?

reply to post by krossfyter



Tell that person to read a history book and current events.

The federal government thinks it has power over state laws. Check California weed wars.

We have the FDA full of unelected officials that set mandates that are treated as laws.

The business plot of the 1930's which the Bush family was part of, and multiple Bush's become presidents, governors? Coincidence?

The NDAA act, Patriot act, illegal wire tapping.....

I can go on and on

I have lived within 50 miles of NYC for my whole life, 44 years

I can't say a single thing is any different in my day to day life

not one thing

I haven't been pulled over in 10 years, and no one I know has ever been legitimatley hassled EVER by an officer

the last time I even had an encounter with an officer, we were in the wrong, and he just gave us a chance to get lost. thanks dude !

sure, you can scour the internet and find bad apples, but how many officers are out there ? a few hundred thousand ?

reply to post by 2Isee3rd


The video you just posted is nauseating and soul destroying. I watched until the end even though I did not want to. I imagine the people who were arrested were taken to the cop shop and written up. I was imagining them appearing in court and the charges being read out.

Then I was trying to imagine the court proceedings. I wonder what will happen to those people when they appear in court and what will be far more interesting is the judge - what the judge decides.

This is the type of story that needs to be followed. It needs to become viral so that people can see what is really happening and not the news that is tightly controlled. The Police seemed to be out of their depth and from what I can see in the video - the Police were never going to leave without a confrontation - it seemed to me that the Police are not doing their job unless they are brutalising people.

I fee sorry for the American people - you really are being broken down piece by piece - by the very people who are supposed to serve you and protect you. Nothing short of a miracle is needed in America to stop this insanity.

Much Peace...

reply to post by syrinx high priest


You are either lucky or you have a life that keeps you occupied with your day to day life. Perhaps you have a life that is very routine and that sees you adhering to your routine.

Just because you have never been violated does not mean it will not happen - there is a first time for everything. And remember that you alone are not a community - everyone belongs to a community and what happens to others is still a reflection of you.

When Martial law starts being acted upon - they will not miss you then - just participating on this website - merely being a member - will get you noticed with a personal invite to visit a FEMA camp. Talk to any Jewish person who recalls the halocasut? Ask them if they had ever been pulled over for speeding? Children were murdered - ask them if they had ever come under Police attention? Just ask them?

Much Peace...

Originally posted by krossfyter
The United States is far from a police state. To say so would be to diminish the suffering of those legitimately in police states. The US has its issues, but throughout the 1900s, we moved from a nearly broken country to a superpower with greater freedom than most in the world. The police do not have the authority they once had, and the Federal government is not nearly as all-powerful as it once was. Changes do need to happen, but there's no reason for us to blow things out of proportion and ignore the many gains that have been made over the last century."

Thank goodness there are others who realize this although we might be the minority in this regard. I absolutely agree with you and whereas we're far from perfect, we're still a hell of a lot better off than we were just a few decades ago. Unfortunately, we went through a period of prosperity when a sense of entitlement set in for many people who didn't live through the tougher times. I suppose we can't necessarily blame those who feel that they have lost something since everythng is relative.

With that said, those people should take the time to educate themselves about what life was like for many segments of our society up until the mid to late 60's and then rethink their opinions. Have we lost some of the freedoms we enjoyed before the world became such a volatile and dangerous place with the means to destoy the planet with the click of a few buttons? Yes we have. Have our fears of such been exploited at times for the benefit of the few? Yes I'm sure they have. Does this mean that we live in a military state? No it does not.

For all of those who think we do, please take the time to educate yourselves and while you're at it, take a gander of the descriptions of some real "military state" countries such as communist Russia, China, East Germany before their reunification, etc. I think that this particular site paints a pretty vivid picture.

....Events proved that communism, according to the atheistic ideas of Marx and Lenin, is contrary to human nature and justice. Lenin was thus forced to ease up somewhat, but before he came to grips with the immediate problems, at least 5 million Russians died of starvation.

Religion and family life suffered greatest in Russia after the Communist takeover. Religion was considered an enemy of the Communist state: children could not be taught religion nor could religious literature be published. Many bishops, priests, and religious were murdered or jailed. Schools, seminaries, monasteries were closed. Children were encouraged to spy on their own parents and report them to the Communist police if they practiced religion in the home or held ideas contrary to Communist indoctrination in the state schools. Respect for the sacredness and indissolubility of marriage was disregarded and easy divorce was made possible. A couple simply signed a governmental paper to get married or divorced.

The Communist International was organized by Lenin and spread throughout the world, with the aim of world domination by Communists. When Lenin died in 1924, Josef Stalin took over as Communist dictator, without any voice by the people in this decision. In 1928 Stalin started the first of his infamous Five-Year plans, aimed at industrializing Russia and making the country more economically productive. The peasants had to work on "collective farms," owned by the Communist state, or in factories. Some who attempted to work their own farms and resist their Communist takeover were either shot to death on Stalin's orders or transported to Siberia for slave labor in prison camps.

Great suspicion of Communists toward other Communists developed, so that no one trusted anyone else. Purge after government purge ensured, to "purify" the Communist Party of "undesirables." If Stalin even suspected an individual Communist, the result was usually execution. With everyone spying on everyone else in the Communist Soviet Union, workers could report each other, so that a fellow worker could be done away with when resentment developed.

Originally posted by Amanda5
reply to post by syrinx high priest

 

You are either lucky or you have a life that keeps you occupied with your day to day life. Perhaps you have a life that is very routine and that sees you adhering to your routine.

Just because you have never been violated does not mean it will not happen - there is a first time for everything. And remember that you alone are not a community - everyone belongs to a community and what happens to others is still a reflection of you.

When Martial law starts being acted upon - they will not miss you then - just participating on this website - merely being a member - will get you noticed with a personal invite to visit a FEMA camp. Talk to any Jewish person who recalls the halocasut? Ask them if they had ever been pulled over for speeding? Children were murdered - ask them if they had ever come under Police attention? Just ask them?

Much Peace...

Hi, Amanda5. I have to say that my life experiences are the same as syrinx high priest's, I grew up during the end of an era of great change, enjoyed a relatively quiet and peaceful childhood, had the opportunity to attend college and choose whatever profession I wanted, chose the person I wanted to marry and raised a family where my children were afforded the same opportunities as I was.

Is it possible that what you describe may happen? Yes it is but I have to say that I, personally, see no evidence of what you describe happening. Has life changed from the carefree days of my youth? Yes they have but the world has changed as well. I know there's been a lot of talk about these FEMA camps, but I've read just as much evidence that they don't exist as I've read that they do (and most of those who say they do are basing their comments on what they perceive they're seeing). Now if I'm wrong, please speak up, anyone, who has absolute concrete proof that these camps are being prepared for mass incarceration due to some type of pre-planned martial law or population reduction?

I don't necessarily trust my government because our system is such where greed and power have become the ultimate goal and our citizens have been exploited in many ways for the profit of the few - there's no question that this insidious progression has occurred over the years; however, as much as I might mistrust my government, I trust my fellow Americans even more and believe that when/if the day comes where they try to take away all of our liberties, they will ultimately fail.

reply to post by timidgal


Hello. I am glad you have had a chance to live your life with a minimum of worry and that your Children have been given the same chances at a good quality life.

Just remember that when we neglect history we are doomed to repeat it. Many many people who lived through the holocaust were regular citizens who went about their lives and never noticed anything. That on its own does not mean anything. The holocaust has been documented with photographs and written accounts - there are museums dedicated to the memory of those who were murdered.

Just because you have a good quality of life does not mean that change is not happening all around you. Be careful what you dismiss all because you are using your life as a measure. I too have a reasonable quality of life but I do not use myself as a measure - that to me would suggest I am not using my eyes to see what is happening to others. It would also suggest that I have been inured to what is happening in the rest of the world. I am awake and can see what is happening in the world - it is not good and we as a humanity need to sort the mess and heal all the harm that has been done.

Having a peaceful life that seems to be removed from all the woes of the world could suggest you are asleep but the mere fact you are on this site suggests to me you are looking - looking for answers to questions - looking to learn - looking to see whether you have the life you do due to luck or due to hard work or due to being a slave who has always done the bidding of their master. Only you know the answer.

Much Peace...

I believe we are in a de facto police state.

However, it is an incremental police state. I believe they have chosen to start with passing and enforcing heavy handed laws they can get the majority of people to either agree with or tolerate. It doesn't matter if it's constitutional or not as long as they believe it will fly with the public.

Gradually, over time, they will get more and more strict. They will make excuses for new laws and use propaganda to convince most people we need them. And just like the boiling frog, most people won't notice. The infrastructure has gone up a piece at a time and will continue to do so. Most people don't see the individual pieces of the framework for a police state as a police state any more than they would see a transmission as a car. Though the finished product could only be a vehicle of some kind, this kind of logic is (somehow) not applied to the actions of government. "A transmission is not a car". No, but it will be. "Maybe it'll be something else". Maybe. You know the saying. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. A transmission is circumstantial evidence someone is building a car. Each new piece is more evidence.

We've actually been a police state since prohibition started in the 20's and probably before then?
Every generation gets to witness a taste, its just that our overlords have became too antsy in their pantsy to step up the game , because they see that this next election is going to turn the tide where the american people will DEMAND the insanity end, and they cant have anyone making demands, especially their slaves

reply to post by Amanda5
Evening, Amanda5. Sorry it's taken so long to respond but I haven't been able to log on for a while.

Just remember that when we neglect history we are doomed to repeat it. Many many people who lived through the holocaust were regular citizens who went about their lives and never noticed anything. That on its own does not mean anything. The holocaust has been documented with photographs and written accounts - there are museums dedicated to the memory of those who were murdered.

Can never and would never want to forget it because, yes, we are doomed to repeat our mistakes if we don't remember them and pass these lessons on from generation to generation. I had two grandparents who, until their death, shared their own personal stories of the holocaust and believe me, they were clued in to what was happening much earlier than the history books have led the masses to believe - the situation merely receiving a blind eye from the rest of the world but I understand what you're saying. Everything can always change in the blink of an eye and you're right, we do ourselves an injustice when we don't remember that.

Just because you have a good quality of life does not mean that change is not happening all around you. Be careful what you dismiss all because you are using your life as a measure. I too have a reasonable quality of life but I do not use myself as a measure - that to me would suggest I am not using my eyes to see what is happening to others. It would also suggest that I have been inured to what is happening in the rest of the world. I am awake and can see what is happening in the world - it is not good and we as a humanity need to sort the mess and heal all the harm that has been done.

Change and human degradation has always been around and I've been wide awake to it my entire life - much more so than I would have ever wanted but my sensitivities to others' anguish is a discussion for another time. I believe that some people have no choice but to be awake to the horrors around them and being one of those, I have, for most of my life, seen it more as a curse than a blessing. The term "ignorance is bliss" has never really applied to me. I realize that being oblivious would serve no good purpose, and I would never chose to close my eyes given the choice, but sometimes I wish I could take a brief vacation from the reality. Alas, it is never meant to be. Not a pretty picture, I realize, but an honest one.

Having a peaceful life that seems to be removed from all the woes of the world could suggest you are asleep but the mere fact you are on this site suggests to me you are looking - looking for answers to questions - looking to learn - looking to see whether you have the life you do due to luck or due to hard work or due to being a slave who has always done the bidding of their master. Only you know the answer.

With all due respect, this is a pretty generalized and somewhat patronizing remark but from being involved on other forums in which we both participated, I'm fairly certain that wasn't your intent. I never said that I had a peaceful life - merely that I haven't been subjected to any of the restrictive activities that would lead me to believe that we are currently living in a police state. This doesn't mean that it applies to all. I have had no choice but to be wide awake to everything happening around me and after trying to conform to a "normal" society at a young age (because that's what we're raised to strive for), I realized that this was a falacy and have since tried to help those who can't see the truth. I've found some receptive and others not yet ready.

As for my own personal choices, they have always been based on my own sense or right and wrong and have, oftentimes, differed from the masses and other times they have not. Doesn't mean that I'm a slave because I don't always buy into the rebellious or anti-establishment views. With that said, I have never blamed those who aren't awake or secure/brave enough yet to do the same because this dysfunction, in my opinion, is born of fear. Who am I to judge what another person choses to do to make their way in this world (as long as it doesn't interfere with others' choices to do the same). I don't necessarily agree with putting titles on people like "slave" or "master" because I believe that type of degradation does nothing but extinguish the fire that exists in all of us. We each have our own internal time table to be awakened and for those who are not yet ready, all I can do is wait for it to happen, revel in it with them (or hold their hand as the reality sinks in) and offer my support and knowledge when their time comes.

Peace back to you, my friend, and I can respect and honor your comments even if I don't necessarily agree with them all...

Well what constitutes a "Police State"?

If you could be arrested for feeding the homeless, would that qualify?




What about arresting someone for selling Lemonaid?


What if people were arrested for asking for directions?


What if your father was dying and you used a bad word while on the phone with a 911 operator, and were then arrested for it?


What if you were following an order given by a police officer, but he then choose to arrest you for smiling?


What if police come to get your dog and while the animal is restrained, they shoot it in the head?


What if you came home one day and found your child had killed himself. After calling for help, you are then beaten and arrested by police?


What if your name is Kelly Thomas and police just beat you to death?


Police State? Of course not, this all perfectly normal and acceptable. There is nothing to fear. Do as you are told and everything will be ok. Stop asking question, and please go back to sleep.


Or we can all wake up and see what is happening around us daily and follow the advice of some "crazy old guy" who once said,

"Each of us should choose which course of action;
Education, conventional political action, or even
peaceful civil disobedience to bring about
necessary changes, but let it not be said
that we did nothing."

That crazy old man? None other than Ron Paul.