I watched Loose Change 9/11 last night

Originally posted by vipertech0596
One question. Why is the Bush family so hated and the Kennedy family so venerated? If anyone thinks that the Kennedys are any less corrupt/connected than the Bush family, well, this folks are more deluded than most of the truth movement.

I'm betting we could find Kennedy connections to 9/11....

Good luck on that one!!

The Kennedy family was more than eviscerated in the 1960's. They've been out of the loop for quite some time.

The Bush family has had control of almost every Presidency since the election of Eisenhower.

The only exceptions are Jimmy and Barack. Their mentor, and controller behind the curtain, is none other but our ole buddy, Zbigniew Kazimierz Brzezinski, co-founder of the Tri-laterial Commission with David Rockefeller.

Originally posted by vipertech0596
reply to post by snowcrash911

 

Quite frankly, if these were examples of your independent research........ I would find a new hobby.

Very interesting. Many claims made by you, some of them far from mainstream opinion. I'll be more than happy to respond. But first, I must request you provide credible sources for your claims. I promise I will provide sources for mine. Otherwise your claims amount to mere allegations and opinions, and the same goes for me. Research 101. You're going to find out soon enough which one of us is the amateur. (Somebody should have warned you)

Originally posted by vipertech0596
reply to post by Stryc9nine

 

That would be those of us who live in reality and do our own research. Unlike those who swallow the crap in Loose Change hook, line and sinker.

it baffles me that there are still people out there that believe in the official story. and always try to defend it on every 9/11 threads on ats. obviously you have a chip on your shoulder and just send out this nasty vibe so i'll live you and your kind to thinking your delusions are reality.

reply to post by Stryc9nine


By most people's standards, I'm neither a debunker nor a truther. I consider myself a truther though. Here's a tip. Ask hundred-percenter "vipertech0596" what Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Bob Graham told the BBC.

If he doesn't know the answer, he doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to 9/11.

Nor will his ilk stand up for these people:

Donna Marsh O’Connor — Mother of Vanessa Lang Langer
Bob McIlvaine — Father of Bobby McIlvaine
Helen McIlvaine — Mother of Bobby McIlvaine
Jean Canavan — Sister in Law of Sean Canavan
Manny Badillo — Nephew of Thomas Joseph Sgroi
Chris Burke — Brother of Tom Burke
Michele Little — Sister of David M. Weiss
Lorie Van Auken — Wife of Kenneth Van Auken
Monica Gabrielle — Wife of Richard S. Gabrielle
Patricia Casazza — Wife of John Casazza
Mindy Kleinberg — Wife of Alan Kleinberg
Robin Della Rocca — Aunt of Vanessa Lang Langer
Michelle Madden — Mother of Richard B. Madden
Barry Zelman — Brother of Kenneth Zelman
Margaret Canavan — Mother of Sean Canavan
Ciaran Canavan — Brother of Sean Canavan
Celine Traynor — Sister of Sean Canavan
Kathleen McKeon — Sister of Sean Canavan
Teresa McCaffery — Sister of Sean Canavan
Mimi Kelly Donegan — Sister of Bill Kelly Jr.
Gayle Baker — Sister of William A. Karnes
Cynthia Droz — Wife of Charles A. Droz
Cherie Faircloth — Sister in Law of John Resta
Lorraine Moskal — Wife of William D. Moskal
Paul E. Geidel — Father of Gary Geidel, FDNY
Teresa Badillo — Sister of Thomas J. Sgroi
John Sgroi — Brother of Thomas J. Sgroi
Eileen Sgroi — Sister-in-law of Thomas J. Sgroi
Anthony Badillo — Nephew of Thomas J. Sgroi
Lauren Badillo — Niece of Thomas J. Sgroi
Ann F. Rago — Aunt of Thomas J. Sgroi
Susan McCormick — Sister of Lt. Paul T. Mitchell
Thomas Resta — Brother of John Resta,
Sylvia San Pio Resta, and their unborn baby
Robert Carlo FDNY — Brother of Michael Carlo, FDNY
Ivy Moreno — Mother of Yvette Nicole Moreno
JoAnn Meehan — Mother of Collen Ann Barkow
Maureen Santora — Mother of Christopher A. Santora
Al Santora — Father of Christopher A. Santora
Maureen Godshalk — Mother of Bill Godshalk
Adele Welty — Timothy Matthew Welty, FDNY
Gila Barzvi — Mother of Guy Barzvi
Robert T. O’Connor — Stepfather of Vanessa Lang Langer
Robert Andreacchio — John Andreacchio
Dolores LaVerde — Mother of Jeannine LaVerde
Madeleine Zuccala — Wife of Joseph J. Zuccala
Madeline Bergin — Wife of John P. Bergin, FDNY
Nancy Yambem — Wife of Jupiter Yambem
Patricia J. Perry — Mother of John W. Perry
James L. Perry — Father of John W. Perry
Joel R. Perry — Brother of John W. Perry
Janice Perry Montoya — Sister of John W. Perry
Maureen Hunt — Sister of Kathleen Hunt Casey
Patricia Reilly — Sister of Lorraine Mary Riley
Jo Anne Bruehert — Wife of Richard G. Bruehert
Cathy D'Alessandro — Sister of Rocco Nino Gargano
Richard Pecorella — Fiancee of Karen S. Juday
Renee Stahlman, — Mother of Eric Stahlman
Sam Stahlman — Father of Eric Stahlman
Gary Meo — Best Friend of Eric Stahlman
Judith Hobson — Mother of Robert Wayne Hobson, III
Michelle Spinelli — Frank Spinelli
Christopher Spinelli — Frank Spinelli
Manuela Nita-Vasquez — Wife of Cono Gallo
Janine Winter — Cousin of Kathryn LaBorie
Alissa Torres — Wife of Luis Eduardo Torres
Robert Mercado — Brother in Law of Marc David Sullins
John M. Ulhich — Cousin of Bradley Van Hoorn
Madeline Smith — Mother of Jeffrey R. Smith
Audrey Magnuson — Wife of Ronald Magnuson
Christine O'Neill — Wife of John P. O'Neill, FBI
Sally Asaro — Sister of Carl F. Asaro, FDNY
Buzz Smith — Father of Jeffrey R. Smith
Myrta Gschaar — Wife of Robert Gschaar
Joanna Jakubiak — Daughter of Maria Jakubiak
Carol Eckna — Mother of Paul Robert Eckna
Stanley Eckna — Father of Paul Robert Eckna
Richard Eckna — Brother of Paul Robert Eckna
Maria R. Fisher — Sister of Andrew Fisher
Margaret Mauro — Sister of Dorothy Mauro
Eileen Woods — Sister of James Woods
Joyce Woods — Mother of James Woods
Robert Nelson — Nephew of Richard Fitzsimons
William A. Brinnier — Best Friend of Frank DeMartini
Catherine Statz — Sister of Patricia J. Statz
Ira Lassman — Father of Nicholas C. Lassman
Bill Kelly — Father of Billy Kelly
JoAnne Kelly — Mother of Billy Kelly
Kathleen Hamilton — Sister of Billy Kelly
Colleen Kelly — Sister of Billy Kelly
Meigan Keane — Sister of Billy Kelly
Robert Madden — Brother of Richard B. Madden
Susan Newton-Carter — Wife of Christopher Newton-Carter
Laura Paterson — Steven B. Paterson
Patric Tengelin — Brother of David Tengelin
Geraldine Lewis — Mother of Adam Lewis
Patricia Bingley — Mother of Kevin Dennis
John Echavarria — Cousin of Matthew Pedicini
Michael McNulty — Uncle of Sean Peter McNulty

JoAnn Statz — Mother of Patricia Statz
Cathie Ong — Sister of Betty Ann Ong
Valerie Lucznikowska — Aunt of Adam Arias
Bryan Jackson - Cousin of Commander William Donovan Jr.
Jane Pollicino - Wife of Steve Pollicino
Jacqueline Statz - Sister of Patricia Statz

Janette MacKinlay
William Rodriguez
James G. Lecce
Gregory P. Mango
Robert Clouser
Raymond Hayden
Eileen Coles
Linda Abbott
Sue Astacio
Miguel Espinal
Daniel Lenahan
Nancy Siesel
Sharron L. Clemons
Michael Hughes
Sharon Wlosek
Robert Dorn
Patrick Mangan
Robert E. Salt
John Nevin
H. Lee Alexander
Thomas Sarr
David Long
Colin Hall
Rachel Hughes

Edith Beaujon
John Feal
Charlie Giles
Regina Cervantes
Steve Centore
Pat McQuillan
Bill Gleason
John Schroeder
Joey Rapps
Thomas Mecir
Ed Potkay
David Kirolos
Ben Strutt
Brian Carswell
Robert Penn
Justin Frank
Judy Wolff
Wiliam Dement
Edmund Mulqueen
Amilcar Rodriguez
Dan Feinstein
Jose Oyola
Gaetano Fundaro
Julieanne Jackson
Nereida Ferran
Frank DenDanto III
Mike McCormack

Nah.. he's one of those yelling "let them die" at Republican debates, and he would apply that philosophy... to the 9/11 First Responders, as his party has been doing for the past 10 years.

Originally posted by aeriess
And I must say I was impressed. I've watched a few other 9/11 conspiracy movies and they were difficult to follow.

AH! I couldn't BELIEVE Bush's ties with everything started with his Grandfather (and maybe before!). That's sickening. Freaking corporate America. Seems as if we were doomed well before he or his father ever went into office.

Did anyone catch that the narrator is "Franco" from the show Rescue Me? I wonder how that sat with Denis Leary and the other guys.

(Sigh) and Dylan Avery found another victim. Expect yet another round of "flight 93 secretly landed on Ohio" and "missile pods on the planes" arguments any day now.

reply to post by snowcrash911


No, you've made a lot of claims with no proof that they are true. Just because they are "popular opinion" does not make them true. And normally when people follow those opinions it means they have only looked for sites that reinforce those opinions.

Blaming every evil thing on one family is moronic

reply to post by Stryc9nine


I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since you've been here a short time. But before you get tool "baffled" you might want to do some research before you start posting crap. The "official" story I have plenty of problems with. But those problems don't involve 19 hijackers crashing 4 aircraft, killing 3,000 Americans. My problems is the ignorance/negligence on the part of our elected officials and assorted other bureaucrats whose actions/inactions led to that day.

People who buy off on "the Bush family are the boogyman" are myopic and ill-informed.

reply to post by snowcrash911


Which BBC interview would you like to discuss? Or are you just going to cherry pick what he said? Makes no matter to me. If you have bothered to do any research on my posts (and you clearly haven't) you would find I have a lot of issues with the 9/11 Commission. But it's for reasons different than those in the "the Bush family is evil/ the Gubmint did 9/11" group. What continually irritates me, is people like you that drink the conspiracy kook aid and ignore reality.

reply to post by vipertech0596
We dont 'drink the conspiracy koolaid', any more than you drink the official story. We believe that the official story is badly misleading, and needs to be re-done. You, and your buds are clearly in a minority here so save your breath. 'Loose Change' is a brilliant piece of investigative film making and Dave hates it so much that most of it must be true, and I highly recommend it to anyone new to the discussion. It provides a starting point along our journey to the truth, and has never claimed to be anything else. The mere fact that you guys never miss an opportunity to bash it, speaks volumes.

Originally posted by dillweed
reply to post by vipertech0596

 

We dont 'drink the conspiracy koolaid', any more than you drink the official story. We believe that the official story is badly misleading, and needs to be re-done. You, and your buds are clearly in a minority here so save your breath. 'Loose Change' is a brilliant piece of investigative film making and Dave hates it so much that most of it must be true, and I highly recommend it to anyone new to the discussion. It provides a starting point along our journey to the truth, and has never claimed to be anything else. The mere fact that you guys never miss an opportunity to bash it, speaks volumes.

Loose Change is a JOKE.

Ah yes, so "Hardy Boys" of 9/11 believe there were missile pods on the airplanes. Boy oh boy, if only they bothered to look at the underside of a United Airliner 767 from that time. Or the mystery blue tarp that was brought in to plant airplane parts to the Flight 93 crash site, which in actuality was a tent set up. I always start to giggle and laugh when watching Loose Change. How many versions are there? 10? And they still couldnt get it right? Please, I would like it if you were to open up another thread regarding LC v.10.0 and we can discuss all of the jokes... er, I mean, errors in their pathetic film.

Originally posted by dillweed
reply to post by vipertech0596

 

We dont 'drink the conspiracy koolaid', any more than you drink the official story. We believe that the official story is badly misleading, and needs to be re-done. You, and your buds are clearly in a minority here so save your breath. 'Loose Change' is a brilliant piece of investigative film making and Dave hates it so much that most of it must be true, and I highly recommend it to anyone new to the discussion. It provides a starting point along our journey to the truth, and has never claimed to be anything else. The mere fact that you guys never miss an opportunity to bash it, speaks volumes.

I didn't say it was a bad piece of film making. Avery's talent in getting people to believe stupid horse [censored] like "missile pods on flight 175] takes artistic ability as well as knowing how to twist information just enough so that it doesn't sound like outright lunacy. My beef is that he's as dishonest as water is wet, as he deliberately withholds critical information to prevent people from making informed opinions, like omitting the fact that the annoucnement that flight 93 landed in Ohio was a case of mistaken identity and was quickly retracted an hour later. For him to even know about the claim that flight 93 landed in Ohio it necessarily means he also knows the report had been retracted. His objective is to sucker gullible people to buy his videos rather than examining the facts, so he doesn't care if he has to snip that whole part off.

In short, Dylan Avery is a douchebag, and all it takes is a 30 second Google search to find out his mocumentary is nonsense. Claiming "Well, Dave says it's false so it must mean it's really true" is a superb example of Kool-aid drinking. If you don't want to believe anything I say, fine, but who the heck told you that you have to mindlessly swallow everything some college kid making internet movies in his dorm room tells you? Is Alex Jones going to arrest you for daring to question what those damned fool conspiracy web sites are telling you, or something?

reply to post by GoodOlDave


If said video is as full of lies as you guys say, then why is it still around? I'll tell you why, because it's possible. The level of mistrust in our govt. has never been higher, which makes those of you who continue to back it look even more ridiculous, if that's possible.

reply to post by dillweed

If said video is as full of lies as you guys say, then why is it still around?

You got us there! It must be the Gospel truth because, as we are all well aware, things that are not true disappear immeadiately from the internet.

I'll tell you why, because it's possible.

And I'll tell why - because no one's bothered to delete it and its creator may still be trying to squeak out some scam from it.

The level of mistrust in our govt. has never been higher, which makes those of you who continue to back it look even more ridiculous, if that's possible.

Boy, you think we look ridiculous because we don't believe G W Bush remote controlled two airliners (or not) into thermite packed towers that were or were not filled with innocent citizens?

Originally posted by dillweed
reply to post by GoodOlDave

 

If said video is as full of lies as you guys say, then why is it still around? I'll tell you why, because it's possible. The level of mistrust in our govt. has never been higher, which makes those of you who continue to back it look even more ridiculous, if that's possible.

it's strange how these folks that try to dismiss "loose change" only post and start threads on 9/11. it's quite strange to think that they are in every single thread trying to disprove this conspiracy in a conspiracy forum. something smells fishy... perhaps they are just disinfo-agents. who knows and who cares? don't take them too seriously. just look at the polls done by ats on 9/11. that represents the perception of most people on here, not theirs.

Originally posted by Stryc9nine
it's strange how these folks that try to dismiss "loose change" only post and start threads on 9/11. it's quite strange to think that they are in every single thread trying to disprove this conspiracy in a conspiracy forum. something smells fishy... perhaps they are just disinfo-agents. who knows and who cares? don't take them too seriously. just look at the polls done by ats on 9/11. that represents the perception of most people on here, not theirs.

Leveling accusations without any evidence whatsoever but your heavily flawed 'intuition' is the very reason 9/11 Truth became a joke, after being hijacked by hardcore conspiracy theorists who promote speculation as fact.

One of the dumbest things I see on the internet is when people redefine a CIA agent as "somebody who disagrees with me."

I'll tell you why conspiracy theorists attract enraged skeptics. The same reason Uri Geller attracts them. This world isn't ruled by truth, it's ruled by con men who exploit appetite for mystery. This understandably pisses some people off. I am one of them. The difference with me is that debunkers piss me off as well. Few people don't piss me off, in fact, because few people conduct research with the exquisite attention to detail and the meticulous precision needed to yield any conclusions of value. Dylan Avery is a good person who grew out of his initial ' everything is fake'-phase and matured over the years. Jason Bermas.. is a fool.

Originally posted by dillweed

 

If said video is as full of lies as you guys say, then why is it still around? I'll tell you why, because it's possible.

Everything is possible. It's also possible that your parents have lied to you all these years when they told you you're a boy, and you're actually a girl. "Possible" is not the same thing as "probable".

As for why it' still around, It's the same reason why people still believe the human species was created by magic out of a clod of dirt by some invisible guy living up in the clouds. If people want to believe something, they're going to continue believing it regardless of how idiotic it sounds. They'll just come up with their own method of rationalization for why it's real...and in the case of Loose Change, it's sticking their head in the sand pretending they can't hear anything that shows why it's baloney. All it takes is a 30 second Google search to find out exactly how Loose Change is lying to us, and yet the "true believers" can't even do that much critical analysis.

The level of mistrust in our govt. has never been higher, which makes those of you who continue to back it look even more ridiculous, if that's possible.

So where is it written that you have to mindlessly migrate from one set of known liars to another set of known liars? Granted, there are a lot of holes in the government's accounting but that doesn't mean that the rubbish a bunch of college kids (one of the arrested for dealing heroin) invented in their dorm room has any more credibility. Just how much inside information would a bunch of college kids (one of them arrested for dealing in heroin) possibly have, anyway?

It's as if someone became disillusioned with the hypocracy and choir boy diddling of the Catholic church, so in defiance they join the Scientologists who think we're all being haunted by the ghosts of space aliens murdered by Xenu the galactic warlord, because of COURSE the only person who'd know "the truth" is a third rate science fiction writer who'll share it with you for a nominal fee. Are you genuinely telling me you don't see just how hard core gullible this is being?

Originally posted by Stryc9nine
it's strange how these folks that try to dismiss "loose change" only post and start threads on 9/11. it's quite strange to think that they are in every single thread trying to disprove this conspiracy in a conspiracy forum. something smells fishy... perhaps they are just disinfo-agents.

Ah yes, the "secret government agent behind every streetlight" boogeyman bit again. Whenever the conspiracy theorists come across a gaping HUGE hole in their claims, they always attempt to fill it by using "secret government agents behind every streetlight" ploy. Why am I not surprised.

reply to post by GoodOlDave
Dave, how could a 30 second google search disprove 'loose change' ? I have the time, and would really like to know. You make snide remarks about ones gender, paste walls of text about things nobody has put forth, and make no attempt to further understand a very complex issue. So, please give me a list of things I can 'google', because I'm of the opinion that 'Loose Change' has raised dozens of questions that haven't been answered yet. Don't forget to slander Dylan Avery.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by Stryc9nine
it's strange how these folks that try to dismiss "loose change" only post and start threads on 9/11. it's quite strange to think that they are in every single thread trying to disprove this conspiracy in a conspiracy forum. something smells fishy... perhaps they are just disinfo-agents.

Ah yes, the "secret government agent behind every streetlight" boogeyman bit again. Whenever the conspiracy theorists come across a gaping HUGE hole in their claims, they always attempt to fill it by using "secret government agents behind every streetlight" ploy. Why am I not surprised.

I see where some people might think you and couple others are government shills. You have to admit, you are in a conspiracy forum and you only partake in subjects that deal with 9/11. What brought you here in the first place? You have over 3500 posts on 9/11, what's your motivation? Do you believe in any conspiracies to be true? What's your opinion on Ron Paul? Thanks in advance.