What's a potential act of terrorism worth in gaol time?

Having read into the story, the 'terrorists' were just a bunch of Muslim kids who formulated what the judge described as an 'amateurish plan' to walk into an Army base and start shooting until they died or were killed.

Honestly? Jail time is all that is needed here. They are just a bunch of disillusioned kids who jumped on the "Jihad" bandwagon, against, as even the judge described, the teachings of the Mosque that they attended.

To see these idiot kids as being anything other than idiot kids is taking it WAY too far.

[Begin Sarcasm]

As for the Death Penalty, lets just institute it for everyone who says anything bad about a country eh? Screw it, line them up and shoot them, whether they be silly kids or armed terrorists. It will make us feel all warm and fuzzy inside and we shall sleep well at night knowing that people were being executed. Makes for pleasant dreams.

[/End Sarcasm]

Originally posted by steveknows

Yes but the U.S didn't place the Taliban in the firing line the Taliban did. They could have always told Bin ladin and he's mob to go but chose not to.

You actually swallowed that nonsense designed to make anyone who didn't want to beat wardrums look like a 'terrorist'?

Anyway this is about terrorists attacking their host country and should they face capital punishment. It's not about discussing what the Taliban should and shouldn't have done.

They were a bunch of kids who decided to do a stupid thing. BIG difference.

If these people want to have a war with us that's fine but they should put in a uniform and be seen as prisoners of war or continue to hide among us and be shot as per the laws of war. 18 years isn't enough. They should die.

[sarcasm]Yes, that's it. Kill the silly kids who decided to do something stupid, in what even the judge described as an 'amateur plan'. Clearly these silly kids represent the entirety of the Muslim world (regardless of even what the leader of the kids Mosque said) and therefore deserve to die - along with all Muslims in the entire world, because clearly they 'hate us for our freedoms'.[/sarcasm]

How absolutely disgusting.

I remember Bush saying "your're with us or your against us" The Taliban chose to be against by choosing to harbour wanted terrorists. They put themselves in the firing line.

Bush was a heartless monster who was going to war regardless of the reasons or whether or not they were justified.

The Taliban offered OBL on a Golden Platter to the US IF they could provide proof. The US could not provide proof, completely ignored the Talibans' request and attacked anyway.

Question: Why was OBL only on the FBI Top Ten list for the 1993 bombings and not 9/11? The FBI answered this by saying "We don't have enough evidence of his involvement". It's pretty hard to misconstrue that answer in any way don't you think?

One word: Oil.

Also what people seem to avoid aknowledging is that by giving away the evidence that Taliban asked for they might very well have been giving away their intelligence sources.

So hundreds of thousands of deaths and trillions of dollars that is bankrupting the world is the answer? Any rational and sane person looks at this and sees the complete ridiculousness of the "War on Ideals - ehem, I meant Terror".

A bunch of kids who did something stupid? My God.

What amazes me is how people are bleeding hearts for these terrorists. They hate you for who you are. They want you dead. They are happy to kill you and your children in your own country and feel like they've done the right thing by God.

They have no moral rules of war. They don't usually bomb a base and hope that civilians aren't in the firing line. They make a point of hitting soft targets and that is you and your family while you are shopping. They make a point of it. They hate you. If they can kill your child it means to them that your child won't grow up to produce more infidels.

You are thier enemy it makes no difference if you don't see it that way.

reply to post by steveknows


www.smh.com.au...

The men should all "hang your heads in shame", she said, describing their level of operating as "amateurish" and the plan they were hatching as "far from sophisticated".

Read more: www.smh.com.au...

Doesn't sound like a bunch of masterminds to me. Here, even more evidence that they were merely idiots who got a stupid idea into their head....

Fattal, Justice Betty King said, appeared to be the "most dogmatic" among them, acknowledging he was "simple man" with low intelligence and whose cognitive impairment would not have been helped at all by his participation for many years in the sport kickboxing, during which he suffered multiple concussions.

Read more: www.smh.com.au...

And proof that their views are not shared by the Muslim community at large....

The men were connected to the Somali-based terrorist group al-Shabaab, and tried to obtain a fatwa, or religious decree, justifying the attack.

Read more: www.smh.com.au...

They tried to get their plan made 'official' but were denied. So, yes, a bunch of kids with a stupid idea.

Just in case you were wondering though mate, you lost me when you started crapping on about execution. I abhor the death penalty and anyone who seeks to uphold it.

Originally posted by steveknows
bleeding hearts for these terrorists.

A common insult thrown at people who don't automatically beat war drums when they are told to.

They hate you for who you are. They want you dead. They are happy to kill you and your children in their own country and feel like they've done the right thing by God.

They hate us because we have been bombing their region for the last 30-odd years or more. I don't know about you, but that would certainly piss ME off.

Don't tell me you believe the 'they hate us for our freedoms' nonsense do you?

They have no moral rules of war. They don't usually bomb a base and hope that civilians aren't in the firing line. They make a point of hitting soft targets and that is you and your family while you are shopping. They make a point of it. They hate you. If they can kill your child it means to them that your child won't grow up to produce more infidels.

Yet we just bomb them from up high, with little or no danger to ourselves. If your aim is to make them sound like cowards, it is US that are more cowardly.

Oh and if you don't think that thousands of civilians haven't been killed by our bombs and troops also then you are very much deluded.

You are thier enemy it makes no difference if you don't see it that way.

They don't hate us for our freedoms, they hate us for bombing the christ out of them for the better part of half a century.

Why are you being insulting. You're accusing me of being insulting yet basically saying that I'm a non thinker who automatically beats a war drum. In fact this is the result of my own observation. Perhaps it's you who is the non thinker and you're just running with the crowd because being against TPTB is the in thing. Please don't make out I'm some kind of follower simply because you and I have different views.

reply to post by steveknows


Calling me a 'bleeding heart' for taking a different stance other than 'kill all the Muslims' is extremely insulting to me. It is a cop-out response designed to vilify me (and others) for having a different opinion.

I draw my opinions from years of having studied this very subject, listening to all points of view then coming to my own conclusions. Funnily enough, many well known and highly respected people also feel the same as I do.

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by steveknows

 

Calling me a 'bleeding heart' for taking a different stance other than 'kill all the Muslims' is extremely insulting to me. It is a cop-out response designed to vilify me (and others) for having a different opinion.

I draw my opinions from years of having studied this very subject, listening to all points of view then coming to my own conclusions. Funnily enough, many well known and highly respected people also feel the same as I do.

Did I say kill all muslims? No I said that anyone who hides among our civilian population with the goal of carrying out attacks on our country should be subject to the rules of war as they're saying that they're soldiers and if they're soldiers that very act is a capitol offence. Why do you feel the need to claim that I've said something I haven't said in order to support your point of view. Unless you don't truly believe what your saying. Please keep it real and please don't change deliberatley change the meaning of what I'm saying.

reply to post by steveknows


OK fine, and I have stated my reasons why I believe this particular case was just a bunch of disillusioned idiots who thought they could achieve martyrdom by walking into an army base and opening fire.

I see nobody has addressed the fact that they wouldn't have gotten very far in before being killed. The whole plan was going to fail dismally, not exactly something which I would expect 'terrorist masterminds' to come up with.

That and I am still pissed about the whole 'they should be executed' thing. Should we execute you for having bad thoughts about Muslim 'terrorists' and talking about killing them? Didn't think so. Besides, the plan never took place, you would be executing them for a 'thought crime'. That's very "Minority Report" if you ask me.

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by steveknows

 

OK fine, and I have stated my reasons why I believe this particular case was just a bunch of disillusioned idiots who thought they could achieve martyrdom by walking into an army base and opening fire.

I see nobody as addressed the fact that they wouldn't have gotten very far in before being killed. The whole plan was going to fail dismally, not exactly something which I would expect 'terrorist masterminds' to come up with.

That and I am still pissed about the whole 'they should be executed' thing. Should we execute you for having bad thoughts about Muslim 'terrorists' and talking about killing them? Didn't think so. Besides, the plan never took place, you would be executing them for a 'thought crime'. That's very "Minority Report" if you ask me.

No one has addressed the fact that they wouldn't have gotten very far? Are you serious? Why are you condoning their actions?

What I'm saying is that these people see themselves as soldiers. And under the rules of war if a soldier dresses like a civilian and in the country of the enemy then they are subject to those rules of war which is capital punishment.

And no you shouldn't execute me because I'm not a soldier dressed like the civilian population of the enemy and I'm not in the country of the enemy and planning on carrying out attacks. If I was still in the army and I was in the country of an enemy I'd be in my Australain combat uniform. Should I dress like their civilians and live like them yet at the same time plan on carrying out attacks then I as well would be subject to the rules of war and under those rules I'd be legilly shot.

These terrorists weren't having bad thoughts they were planning on carrying out attacks. WHY IS IT THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND. They say that they are soldiers and I say fine let them be subject to the rules of war which is if you are a soldier and you dress like a civilian in the country of your enemy and you're there to carry out attacks then you are subject to capital punishment. WHY IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?

Originally posted by steveknows

What I'm saying is that these people see themsleves as soldiers. And under the rules of war if a soldier dresses like a civilian and in the country of the enemy then they are subject to those rules of war which is capital punishment.

You said it yourself, they see THEMSELVES as soldiers. They tried to obtain a religious decree to justify their actions and were denied, meaning that the head 'terrorists' didn't consider the men good enough or the men to be 'terrorists'. Their own 'organisation' denied them for crying out loud.......if they saw themselves as soldiers then it was all in their own heads.

I don't believe anyone should be executed for anything, let alone a few men who had delusions of grandeur. 18 years jail time is more than enough punishment in my opinion.

Originally posted by Kryties

Originally posted by steveknows

What I'm saying is that these people see themsleves as soldiers. And under the rules of war if a soldier dresses like a civilian and in the country of the enemy then they are subject to those rules of war which is capital punishment.

You said it yourself, they see THEMSELVES as soldiers. They tried to obtain a religious decree to justify their actions and were denied, meaning that the head 'terrorists' didn't consider the men good enough or the men to be 'terrorists'. Their own 'organisation' denied them for crying out loud.......if they saw themselves as soldiers then it was all in their own heads.

I don't believe anyone should be executed for anything, let alone a few men who had delusions of grandeur. 18 years jail time is more than enough punishment in my opinion.

It doesn't matter if they were endorsed or not. And this doesn't just apply to them it applies to all those who hide among our civilians and have declared war on our why of life. If they associate themselves as soldiers then give them their wish and treat them as soldiers. Which because of the fact that they're soldiers dressing as civilians in the country of their enemy then they're subject to capital punishment.

They see themsleves as soldiers. They're enemy soldiers on our soil dressed as civilians. SHOOT THEM.

reply to post by steveknows


Capital Punishment is abhorrent and a throwback from the dark ages. It is nothing more than jazzed up barbarism that is upheld and practised by morally deprived people who, in my opinion, just like to see death without the threat of going to jail.

Doesn't matter what a person does, who they kill or rape or who they decide to attack, I abhor the use of execution in any way, shape or form and hold an extreme distaste for associating with people who agree with it's usage.

The Dark Ages are calling, they want their punishments and views back please.

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by steveknows

 

Capital Punishment is abhorrent and a throwback from the dark ages. It is nothing more than jazzed up barbarism that is upheld and practised by morally deprived people who, in my opinion, just like to see death without the threat of going to jail.

Doesn't matter what a person does, who they kill or rape or who they decide to attack, I abhor the use of execution in any way, shape or form and hold an extreme distaste for associating with people who agree with it's usage.

The Dark Ages are calling, they want their punishments and views back please.

I'd prefer to back capital punishiment then to be a condonor of terrorists such as yourself fella. All through this thread you've supported people form another country who wanted kill Australians. What a guy you are.

Originally posted by steveknows

I'd prefer to back capital punishiment then to be a condonor of terrorists such as yourself fella.

Please quote the post where I condone 'terrorists'. I'll bet you my left nut that you cannot.

But nice try at deflection, you don't like what I'm saying so now you try to paint me as a bad guy. Typical reaction from somebody who believes they are right and everyone else is wrong.

All through this thread you've supported people form another country who wanted kill Australians. What a guy you are.

At no point in time did I support the killing of Australians. You are clutching at straws now mate, and failing dismally.

Originally posted by Kryties

Originally posted by steveknows

I'd prefer to back capital punishiment then to be a condonor of terrorists such as yourself fella.

Please quote the post where I condone 'terrorists'. I'll bet you my left nut that you cannot.

"Yes, this thread is about 'terrorists' getting punished for attacking their countries but at the heart of it, who declared them terrorists in the first place, and why? Again, it always comes back to the US and a bunch of complete lies."

If that's not condoning thier actions what is?

But nice try at deflection, you don't like what I'm saying so now you try to paint me as a bad guy. Typical reaction from somebody who believes they are right and everyone else is wrong.

No I'm not at all and if you look through the post it is you who started on this train of being derogative to me simply because you and I had different views.

lets just agree to disagree eh?

reply to post by steveknows


You obviously completely missed the point I was trying to make, but it most certainly wasn't about me condoning terrorism.

I said nothing insulting, I just pointed out the fallacies of your argument, it was YOU who started the insulting by claiming I'm a 'bleeding heart for terrorists' then going and mashing up my statements trying to claim I support terrorism. I see this as a deflection and an attempt to vilify me for my beliefs.....hence why I am angry.

But fine, agree to disagree. The whole world is going to hell in a hand-basket anyway, methinks in a year or two none of this will matter any more.

reply to post by steveknows


After having gone outside and had a few smokes, I have come to the conclusion that perhaps I was being a little harsh toward you mate. I have very strong feelings on these issues (as you might be able to tell) and, combined with having a bad day, I probably got a little too heated about the thread.

Anyways, in terms of that, sorry mate. Beers on me.

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by steveknows

 

After having gone outside and had a few smokes, I have come to the conclusion that perhaps I was being a little harsh toward you mate. I have very strong feelings on these issues (as you might be able to tell) and, combined with having a bad day, I probably got a little too heated about the thread.

Anyways, in terms of that, sorry mate. Beers on me.

edit on 17/12/2011 by Kryties because: (no reason given)

Well that might be my problem. I gave up smoking a few weeks ago. No harm done