Controversial Air Force casket photo prompts investigation

reply to post by metalshredmetal


actually I think its a very valid opinion.

also, the man in the casket isnt dead, so no disrespect to his family afterall

reply to post by relocator

So it was a "tech school graduation" picture: I see a staff sergeant (e-5)upfront ;Crossed Arms denoting: "we're done! (with training); I'd wager its a common class picture(pose) except for the coffin.

Poor taste I admit...but not exactly a collection of human ears hanging off some guys tent. If they are cargo plane "load masters" they obviously will not see patrols" outside the wire."They may very well experience hot landings and take offs; and if you Sgt rock Army guys want your blackhawks and food and ammunition flown in from the states well they'll be the ones hauling them in and the last to leave hauling them out.on c-5'dsand c-17s.

If that (I.e. branch bashing)makes some people feel more manly( in an all volunteer force) .... Then that's just "people".

You too; could've walked two doors down ;flashed your blazing ASVAB scores at an AF recruiter and gotten a (comfortable) technical or flight crew Job.

Originally posted by AngryAlien
I will reiterate that you have no idea what you're talking about. The fact is, the Air Force does not go on patrols, seeking out enemy fighters. They have some assault capability, but they are not an infantry ground force. Sure they get shot at in Afghanistan, but that doesn't fit the description "These are soldiers who have been up to their eyeballs in blood, guts and dying friends for who knows how many deployments each".

I'd just point back up to one of the first posts I made on this thread where I clearly compared the Airmen to cooks, MP's and Computer Specialists that never go outside the base on a patrol. Although, as someone else pointed out, the Air Force absolutely does have forward air controllers and a couple other job titles that do some interesting things. Either way.... I'm aware they aren't gound pounding combat units and said so.

Having said that.....even Bagram has taken fire from time to time as I understand it. The point for the OP and on-topic was that Air Force people aren't taking off from a friendly base, flying over the war zone, then landing back in a friendly nation to have beer at a bar that night. Afghanistan isn't being kind to anyone and the Air Force constitutes close to the same numbers as the Army

I'll leave it at that, before things get entirely out of hand... Seems we're talking past each other. Have a good evening tho.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Originally posted by AngryAlien
I will reiterate that you have no idea what you're talking about. The fact is, the Air Force does not go on patrols, seeking out enemy fighters. They have some assault capability, but they are not an infantry ground force. Sure they get shot at in Afghanistan, but that doesn't fit the description "These are soldiers who have been up to their eyeballs in blood, guts and dying friends for who knows how many deployments each".

I'd just point back up to one of the first posts I made on this thread where I clearly compared the Airmen to cooks, MP's and Computer Specialists that never go outside the base on a patrol. Although, as someone else pointed out, the Air Force absolutely does have forward air controllers and a couple other job titles that do some interesting things. Either way.... I'm aware they aren't gound pounding combat units and said so.

Having said that.....even Bagram has taken fire from time to time as I understand it. The point for the OP and on-topic was that Air Force people aren't taking off from a friendly base, flying over the war zone, then landing back in a friendly nation to have beer at a bar that night. Afghanistan isn't being kind to anyone and the Air Force constitutes close to the same numbers as the Army

I'll leave it at that, before things get entirely out of hand... Seems we're talking past each other. Have a good evening tho.

Even "Remfs" and "maintainers"are put at risk:

During the Korean War, several incidents occurred which called attention to the small arms training provided to Air Force personnel. The most significant was the tragedy at Kimpo Air Base, Korea, which was overrun by a numerically superior Chinese communist force. The Air Police Squadron was so overwhelmed that they were forced to fight a rear guard action before being annihilated. The general base population was then easily defeated before reinforcements arrived to drive the enemy back. The remaining personnel found alive by the Chinese were hung in the main hangar on Kimpo. This hangar still stands today as a memorial to those who died without a chance to fight.

Hung with Steel safety (lock) wire from their own tool boxes...
en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by grayghost
Reminds me of that old song.

Be the first one on your block to have your son come home in a box.

I just cant remember who did it.

"wavy gravy","country joe" or arlo guthrie...I believe It's from "woodstock" anyway

"Come on all you big strong men;
Uncle Sam needs your help again,
Got his azz in a terrible Jam,
Way down yonder in Viet nam:
Drop your Girl ; pickup your gun
Gonna be a whole lot of fun!
"and It's1,2,3;
what are we fighting for?
don't ask me I don't give a damn
my next stop is Viet-Nam:

and its5,6,7;
,open up the"pearly gates"
Aint no time to wonder why
whoopee we're all gonna die...

There are a great many situations in life that brings us in regular contact with things most people aren't used to. What usually happens, mostly I think out of necessity, you develop a certain "gallows humour" about it.

I know from my own past, I worked with profound disabled adults and children for many years, and as a part of that I was regularly confronted with situations and occupations that at first shocked and disgusted me. I wouldn't have lasted very long in that career if I'd retained that same level of shock and disgust. Familiarity breeds contempt, you get used to things, and the really bad things are often the things that generate the biggest humour to compensate.

Regardless of your opinion on the war, the men and women out there doing the dirty work used to be "ordinary" people, but over the past 9 years they've seen things, had to do things, that most of us couldn't do blithely. They also seen enough of those coffins filled with people they'd laughed and lived with, knowing every day that they could be the next ones to leave that way.

So yes, I can see how the "compensation humour" for such a thing would have to be immense. You'd have to develop a morbid sense of humour about it just to deal with it.

I agree this is a shocking photo, and for most of us it's in bad taste. For most people, joking about cleaning other people's bottoms are shocking and in poor taste, Some people revulse at the sight of 2 men passionately kissing. Some people call the police at the slightest whiff of smoke that's "not just tobacco".

Nobody was hurt by this coping mechanism, and personally, I think it's undue political correctness to launch an investigation over it.

Originally posted by TheIrvy
There are a great many situations in life that brings us in regular contact with things most people aren't used to. What usually happens, mostly I think out of necessity, you develop a certain "gallows humour" about it.

I know from my own past, I worked with profound disabled adults and children for many years, and as a part of that I was regularly confronted with situations and occupations that at first shocked and disgusted me. I wouldn't have lasted very long in that career if I'd retained that same level of shock and disgust. Familiarity breeds contempt, you get used to things, and the really bad things are often the things that generate the biggest humour to compensate.

Regardless of your opinion on the war, the men and women out there doing the dirty work used to be "ordinary" people, but over the past 9 years they've seen things, had to do things, that most of us couldn't do blithely. They also seen enough of those coffins filled with people they'd laughed and lived with, knowing every day that they could be the next ones to leave that way.

So yes, I can see how the "compensation humour" for such a thing would have to be immense. You'd have to develop a morbid sense of humour about it just to deal with it.

I agree this is a shocking photo, and for most of us it's in bad taste. For most people, joking about cleaning other people's bottoms are shocking and in poor taste, Some people revulse at the sight of 2 men passionately kissing. Some people call the police at the slightest whiff of smoke that's "not just tobacco".

Nobody was hurt by this coping mechanism, and personally, I think it's undue political correctness to launch an investigation over it.

Coping with what? The stresses of the school they were attending in the United States? lol. Let's not go with all these "What if" scenatios and discuss the facts presented. Is it also why some soldiers are killing civillians or mistreating prisoners at POW camps? Are the just coping with it? How far can that excuse go?

Quote: Angry Alien
"I will reiterate that you have no idea what you're talking about. The fact is, the Air Force does not go on patrols, seeking out enemy fighters. They have some assault capability, but they are not an infantry ground force. Sure they get shot at in Afghanistan, but that doesn't fit the description "These are soldiers who have been up to their eyeballs in blood, guts and dying friends for who knows how many deployments each". "

If you don't know about the Air Force mission in these wars, please don't act like you do.
I know from first hand experience that the Air Force does go out on patrols, seeking enemy fighters. Usually Airmen are sent to work with joint units, sometimes known as Task Forces.
Remember, there are no defined enemy lines. The base I was at in Iraq was mortared daily. I also left base on a humanitarian mission. My female roommates in other units, would be gone on convoys for weeks. We were all Air Force.


I was also tasked to go over to Afghanistan in Lieu of the Army (meaning I would be doing an Army job, not AF). I got out of it under a technicality.

Back on topic:
This photo looks like they were graduating from their tech school and fooling around for their class photo. The slogan at the bottom could've been a phrase used for the class. My basic training flight had a unique phrase we used. T-shirts had it printed.
The poses could also have been meant as a joke within their unit. I don't know why these poses were used, but I'm also not apart of their unit.
I do not believe this photo was meant to go public, but since another unit disrespected the remains of service members, behaviors within the military, are being scrutinized right now. Everyone in this photo will probably be punished.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Originally posted by whyamIhere
These guys are bored out of their minds.

I just think it's kind of a souvenir.

I wouldn't read too much into it.

I'd tend to agree with you. At first this struck me as so wrong I had trouble finding words....then I calmed down from that initial outrage and thought more about it.

These are soldiers who have been up to their eyeballs in blood, guts and dying friends for who knows how many deployments each. To them, this is blowing off some steam...and I'm sure this photo was never intended to go public in any way beyond the men in it and those they personally shared it with.

I think you're right on your brief comment. We've come to make mountains out of molehills even when there is really nothing there to get mad about.

I have to agree with you as well, when I was in, we would do some crazy stuff that was probably questionable to civilians sense of humor, but your right about blowing off steam, and the stresses of being a troop. Here is a good one, this one could be very questionable, but all in all I found it to be quite hilarious after. www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by collietta

If you don't know about the Air Force mission in these wars, please don't act like you do.
I know from first hand experience that the Air Force does go out on patrols, seeking enemy fighters. Usually Airmen are sent to work with joint units, sometimes known as Task Forces.
Remember, there are no defined enemy lines. The base I was at in Iraq was mortared daily. I also left base on a humanitarian mission. My female roommates in other units, would be gone on convoys for weeks. We were all Air Force.

I was also tasked to go over to Afghanistan in Lieu of the Army (meaning I would be doing an Army job, not AF). I got out of it under a technicality.



Wrong again. I do know about the Air Forces mission in the war. While there are a few Airmen that go out on "Patrols", the vast majority doesn't. I really don't know why this is even being discussed... The Air Force is not a ground assault unit and is mostly in a support role. Again, my comment was simply pointing out that this training unit has probably not been, knee-deep in dead bodies, and daily fire-fights, as one poster described. There's para-rescue, got it. Forward observers, got it. Sitting on a base behind a computer getting mortared, isn't being "in the #". Been there done that...

i dont understand how the photo is so "shocking" .. the guy is "pretending" to be a corpse..and the txt is corny

it's bad taste at best..

what the punishment for having a dark sense of humor?
how about combat in a 3rd world country.. that will teach em

Thanks guys for all the replies. I enjoyed reading them so far.
.
That’s what I enjoy most about ATS...
The coming together of ideas that promote great discussions, such as this one has become.

Glad you guys like the topic.

Thanks guys.
Stars all around.

Originally posted by metalshredmetal
I think you all would have very different opinions here if they was youre father or brother in the coffin. Then you might act like a real human, with empathy.

I understand the whole "im in the military and I see people die, im so tough bc I have no emotion" bulljive...but thats no excuse...this guy was someones family.

Look up the term "demoralization of behavior" and its role in behavior control..

Our entire country is experiencing demoralization and this thread is a good example.

Once you have no empathy for other human beings, than youre no longer human, in my eyes.

Infantile minded animals, these people are.

HAHAHAHA! Thanks for the laugh. I am sure by now you have actually took the time to read the "whole" article...or even the short snippet the OP put up and realized that it wasn't an actual dead person in the coffin. If you haven't, well, stop looking at the pictures junior and try reading!

reply to post by mikemck1976


I agree with you. I dont understand the significence of it either, but I'm sure there is a message in it. My first thought was that being chained up by being in the military with the prospect or likelyhood of getting killed, they can see themselves being in the casket and cant do anything about it. - just a thought.

Originally posted by 46ACE

Originally posted by FurvusRexCaeli

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
These are soldiers who have been up to their eyeballs in blood, guts and dying friends for who knows how many deployments each.

They're not soldiers, they're airmen. If they're up to their eyeballs in anything, it's not blood, guts, and dying friends. Probably beer.

Hey: air force pararescue,forward air controllers,and security folks eat as much mud as the next spec "operators". Granted Not everybody serves at f.o.b. "restrepo"! I take offense to you diminishing Serving Airmen.

Let see YOUR"dd 214"!

Whoa, settle down, eh? Having been in the USAF in my youth, it can be said that the grunts and jug-heads get more 'mud' and 'blood' but SURELY we had the higher intelligence level on them.

Sorry grunts and jugs, but why shoot for the ground when you can aim HIGH to the SKY.

Yet if any jobless drugged out unwashed hippy loser on the street staged something like this most of ATS would be giving them a pat on the back and thanking them for the message and standing up to the man or some such rot.

It means to them what it means to them and that's all they need. I doubt they were looking for validation from places like ATS when they did it.

Originally posted by FurvusRexCaeli

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
These are soldiers who have been up to their eyeballs in blood, guts and dying friends for who knows how many deployments each.

They're not soldiers, they're airmen. If they're up to their eyeballs in anything, it's not blood, guts, and dying friends. Probably beer.

what exactly did you do in the military? services? I was TACP, after I was in SF, and have seen my share, so watch what your putting up here and lets keep it civil, you follow?

I wonder if this is a statement of what happens to people when they f# up and are part of the elite groups to sabatage the rights and freedoms of americans. PERHAPS people in the military are fed up with the elite facist movements going on and are doing something about it. Are they taking them down one by one? I am curious. Do they elites actually think that the military personel will raid the streets against their own. Son against dad/mother/neighbor/friend. Is this why they might employ troops from other nations to raid american citizens? WHATS GOING ON HERE. What is this about? A dead guy in a casket. A DEAD GUY. Why are they Doing this? WTF. IS THIS ABOUT, STOP THE DEATH OF AMERICAN SOLDIERS OVERSEAS? IS THE MILITARY SICK OF BEING TREATED AS SCUM FOR THE ELITE MOB BANKSTERS? IS this part of OWS? Are we starting a revolt now? What's going on here. WHATS GOING ON. WTF.

Originally posted by 46ACE

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Originally posted by AngryAlien
I will reiterate that you have no idea what you're talking about. The fact is, the Air Force does not go on patrols, seeking out enemy fighters. They have some assault capability, but they are not an infantry ground force. Sure they get shot at in Afghanistan, but that doesn't fit the description "These are soldiers who have been up to their eyeballs in blood, guts and dying friends for who knows how many deployments each".

I'd just point back up to one of the first posts I made on this thread where I clearly compared the Airmen to cooks, MP's and Computer Specialists that never go outside the base on a patrol. Although, as someone else pointed out, the Air Force absolutely does have forward air controllers and a couple other job titles that do some interesting things. Either way.... I'm aware they aren't gound pounding combat units and said so.

Having said that.....even Bagram has taken fire from time to time as I understand it. The point for the OP and on-topic was that Air Force people aren't taking off from a friendly base, flying over the war zone, then landing back in a friendly nation to have beer at a bar that night. Afghanistan isn't being kind to anyone and the Air Force constitutes close to the same numbers as the Army

I'll leave it at that, before things get entirely out of hand... Seems we're talking past each other. Have a good evening tho.

Even "Remfs" and "maintainers"are put at risk:

During the Korean War, several incidents occurred which called attention to the small arms training provided to Air Force personnel. The most significant was the tragedy at Kimpo Air Base, Korea, which was overrun by a numerically superior Chinese communist force. The Air Police Squadron was so overwhelmed that they were forced to fight a rear guard action before being annihilated. The general base population was then easily defeated before reinforcements arrived to drive the enemy back. The remaining personnel found alive by the Chinese were hung in the main hangar on Kimpo. This hangar still stands today as a memorial to those who died without a chance to fight.

Hung with Steel safety (lock) wire from their own tool boxes...
en.wikipedia.org...

edit on 16-12-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-12-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

please to finally clear it up, Security Forces do go outside the walls of the base on patrol, I know, because I did it. In fact, I was a Raven before I transferred, look up what a SF Raven does please. When I transferred to TACP guess what, we did patrols outside the walls of the base. Please people find your facts first. Yes the Air Force is not a major ground fighting force, but the ground forces still are a small needed capable force multiplier to ground units of other branches. While your at it people, look up an Air Force Combat Weather Specialist, you'd be surprised, in fact here.......... usmilitary.about.com...

Lets talk about this pic some more. Who actually knows where the pic was taken. Why it was taken. What does it mean to the people in the photo. OTHERWISE, we can say whatever we want about the photo.