Russia says seized radioactive material en route to Iran

If anyone is in possession of stolen nuclear material and is seeking a buyer - what is the first country they would go to?.............................um would that be Iran!

If any nation was seeking to nuke the US - but didn't really fancy being nuked in return, what nation would be first choice to funell nukes to, so that it could act as a proxy?.......................I think that would be Iran as well, although NK comes a close second!

Sorry I hate this kind of posts but you just dont get what I mean.

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
reply to post by verschickter

 

How can my theory have flaws when I don't actually have a theory. I pointed out the obvious flaws in your first theory, and your second theory is even more flawed even though I was polite enough to entertain it for you.

I asked a question, where on earth did I composed a theory? I copy your sentence, please read it:
"How can my theory have flaws when I don't actually have a theory."
This sentence actually fits for me, not for you

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
No attitude here, it's just I feel obligated to point out certain things such as outright lies. I also will point out any flaws that I may find. This is a discussion after all, right?

attitude was here:
No need to get upset at me for pointing out the obvious flaws in your logic |
They have proven themselves to be very, very retarded. | (Btw, who are THEY? WHEN and WHERE did THEY prove to be retarded?)

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
If I present a flawed theory I invite you to shoot it down. Instead you have sunk to Chad's level and have decided to fabricate statements, an expampl of one of your fabricated statements is where you accused my theory to have flaws, when I actually haven't presented any actual theories other than to entertain another member's hypothetical theory.

Same as above. I never "fabricated statements", this is a outragous LIE!

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
Surely you would rather discuss the topic at hand rather than bicker over statements I never actually made. The two of you have turned this thread into a discussion of statements that were never made. I don't say this very often, but the two of you are trolling.

No, I really do not troll. You two are having issues and you clearly are a bit confused (by now) because you contradict yourself with your posts.

To get it done: I disagree with the FF because neither is this a reason for war, nor does it makes any sense

reply to post by verschickter


I was thinking the same thing, scratching my head I wondered, If Iran needs something for their nuclear reactor, wouldn't Russia just help, no need to be sneaking anything in. Not sure, but perhaps Russia prevented some kind of sabotage against Iran.

Originally posted by verschickter
reply to post by detachedindividual

 

First, he didnt mentoined western influence, that was the point. The other point is in my post above

Let me refresh your selective memory. Cream, who was the first member to respond to my thread, clearly
Hinted Western involvement in his very first post. The FF that I entertained, was his FF scenario.

If you don't believe me, you can kindly direct yourself and Chad back to page one. Let me know if you need directions. The posts from page one seem rather illusive as the both of you both seem to have troubles finding it.

This is a very odd situation! Is this a false flag? I was under the impression that Russia is Iran's friend, thus willing to help them out. But again, if that is the case, why would they go this route to bring Iran what they need? Did they possibly prevent something bad from happening to Iran? Looking forward to more information regarding this matter.

Originally posted by Rapha
The Russians have been allies with Iran for years.
So this could be a bluff where the russians are saying to the west, 'do what you want with Iran. We will not help Iran again !!'. When in actual fact Russia is still Iran's ally.

False flag is possible. We will just have to wait and see. Lets see if China also cuts ties with Iran because of this event.

I'm sure China won't. They have a mutal interest, so they are pretty close. It's funny how the Russians played this one. I'm gonna sit back and watch the fireworks. Corruption hit this one right on the head. Cheers!

-SAP-

if it is a false flag it is show Russia is trying to stop the Iranians when they have been shown to help them in the past. More moving parts makes it harder to make sense of.

Since we do not, as yet, have enough information to do anything but speculate wildly and bicker about who said what on the thread, I'd like to share a number of possible scenarios:

The first, and most likely, is that Iran needed a supply of Sodium 22 for medical purposes. With the tightening embargo, only Russia and China might be able and willing to supply them. Russian bureaucracy may have decided that radioactive materials for medical purposes falls outside of the agreement they have with Iran dictating the sale of nuclear material, and simply refused to sell. Iranian agents may then have done an end run around the government and purchased the Sodium 22 from a cash strapped hospital or research facility. Because they are not of the criminal class, they may have been unaware of how stringent the inspections for radioactive material are, and naively tried to ship it, illegally, by air. This explanation saves the maximum amount of face both for Iran and Russia, so it is almost certainly going to be adopted as the "Official Story."

A second possibility is that a criminal organization wanted to test the efficiency of the Russian security apparatus. Rather than run the risk of losing valuable fissile material, they obtained the less well guarded Sodium 22 and shipped it in containers that they hoped would be sufficient to fool the security scanners. They were inadequate, so back to the drawing board.

The next scenario is that parties in Iran need to augment their supply of refined Uranium or Plutonium. Although they are capable of mining and refining Uranium in their own country, they may have fallen behind schedule. The Russian government would be unwilling to provide weapons grade material as, despite their professions of friendship, they are as frightened of a nuclear armed Iran as everyone else. Iranian agents may have sought out a criminal organization that offered to provide them with the goods. In this scenario, the criminal organization was simply attempting to "scam" the Iranians. By stealing some easily accessible radioactive isotopes, they would make the merchandise "hot" enough to convince the buyers that it was real... at least long enough to secure the traditional briefcase full of hard currency or a wire transfer to a Maltese bank. (It would not be the first time this scam has been pulled.) The problem with this theory is that the mafiya in question would have to be pretty dim to try to send the goods by air. A fishing boat on the Caspian would have been much wiser.

The next theory, and the one that will undoubtedly garner the most enthusiasm on ATS, is that a foreign power set things up to resemble the last scenario, knowing that it would serve to stoke Russia's suspicions about Iran. If they cannot trust Iran to keep up their end of treaties and agreements, they may choose to drop even the nominal "support" they are showing them now. Yes, the most likely candidate for this would be MOSSAD, as they have good working relations with certain Russian mafiya. What argues against this is that transporting radioactive contraband by air is so stupid, a group as cunning as MOSSAD would consider it implausable, and likely to generate blowback.

The final theory is, of course, infinitely recursive: someone set things up to make it appear that MOSSAD set things up... or MOSSAD set things up to make it appear that someone set things up to make it appear that MOSSAD set things up... or someone set things up to make it appear that MOSSAD set things up to make it appear someone set things up...etc.

If I remember correctly, when Iran was in the process of trying to start the reactor, they had a deal with Russia
where Russia would supply the rods (if thats the right term, as I dont know what they are called before being used),
but the deal was Iran is supposed to return every rod afterwards to "ensure" there wasnt going to be malicious use

reply to post by WeBrooklyn

If I remember correctly, when Iran was in the process of trying to start the reactor, they had a deal with Russia
where Russia would supply the rods (if thats the right term, as I dont know what they are called before being used),
but the deal was Iran is supposed to return every rod afterwards to "ensure" there wasnt going to be malicious use

That is essentially correct. Russia keeps Iran on a tight leash.

Wow. More war propaganda. Come on guys!

Originally posted by alwayssmile2
Wow. More war propaganda. Come on guys!

It seems that everything is propaganda these days...

-SAP-

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


This is nothing ,if you take the time to read you will see that it is a calibration tool (sodium-22) do not do as the Mass Media and Blow it out of proportion

To the OP, great find. Thankfully it looks like it was only medical issotopes. There may be more to the story but as it stands I would say that this is a hyped up event by the media. No where in all of this do I see a possible false flag by Russia, that would be the least likely answer to this puzzle.

To the two trolls trying to derail the thread...shame on you!

Talk about making a mountain of a mole hill, I almost had to leave the thread because I was tired of watching the trolls argue about comments that were never even made. They ran away, I don't think they will be back.This is why I rarely post, people like to discredit the poster every at every chance they get

Originally posted by detachedindividual

Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

Lose the attitude mate.

This is what you said:

I agree, a false flag must be considered. It's way too early for me to commit to any theory at this time. I won't lie, when it comes to this political arena, I can't help and consider false flag for any similar type of event.

So you agree that it must be considered, great, so how exactly will a false flag carried out by Russia against Iran work?

What motivation is there for Russia to turn on Iran?

Are you seeing the flaw in the theory yet?

edit on 16/12/11 by Chadwickus because: (no reason given)

Who says it needed to be Russia performing a FF? It could be Israel or the USA.
Just because this happened in Russia does not mean that Russians planned a FF to ensnare Iran, it just means they found radioactive material on a passenger. That passenger could have been set up by any nation in order to justify an attack on Iran.

In fact, it seems to benefit Israel and the USA more than anyone else.

It could persuade Russia to switch sides, it would allow heated political debate in the USA knocking those who are against attacking Iran, it would allow Israel to scream "told you so!" while hiding their own stockpile of unregulated and unmonitored nukes. This could do a whole lot for Israel and the US.

It wouldn't be hard to set up considering. You find someone willing to sell, pay someone willing to be a mule, and make contact with someone on the ground at the airport to make sure the alert is released into the public domain before it goes through the Kremlin.

Not exactly rocket science.

Hi, sorry for the late response. I was at work and spent the available time defending myself from incorrect statements and lies other members were making. Now that I'm free, i would like to say thank you for pointing out the OBVIOUS.

Like you said it's not rocket science

I see that you also got baited by their attempts to change the flow of the discussion. No where once did I hint at Russia being involved in a possible FF. The theories implicating Russia in a false flag are as hair brained as the theories people were throwing around saying the drone incident was some kind of intentional sabotage by the Americans and they call me a conspiracy nut! They keep resorting to Russia in the FF scenario and refuse to admit that Western influence was mentioned in the very first reply in this thread!

As you also pointed out, the only logical FF scenario would be if the Israelis or Americans were involved. I was at least considering the possibility of these two nations plotting some type of FF until the na-22 info came out, even now it's still possible but not very likely in my opinion.

Thank you for the intelligent contribution.

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
If anyone is in possession of stolen nuclear material and is seeking a buyer - what is the first country they would go to?.............................um would that be Iran!

If any nation was seeking to nuke the US - but didn't really fancy being nuked in return, what nation would be first choice to funell nukes to, so that it could act as a proxy?.......................I think that would be Iran as well, although NK comes a close second!

You make a good point where you mention that if someone came across some radioactive material, that it would be logical to try and sell it to Iran, depending what kind of material it is of course since Iran does have some of it's own reactors that probably produce some kind of material (I'm not an expert in this stuff so my explanation might not be very scientific).

The only problem I have with this theory is... imagine that you came across some radioactive material that you wanted to pawn off to the highest bidder. Would you jump on the next plane to Iran and hope to find a buyer?

I doubt Iranians are the easiest people to approach with possible black market deals, especially with the spotlight on them as it is at this current time. It's possible, but unlikely in my opinion. But hey, much weirder things happen all the time.

reply to post by DJW001


We don't always agree, but you raised some very valid points. All the possibilities you mentioned were logical and based on fact for the most part.

I do have a favorite out of all the ones you mentioned. I chose this one because it was thought provoking and proves you were thinking outside the box while still keeping a level head.

A second possibility is that a criminal organization wanted to test the efficiency of the Russian security apparatus. Rather than run the risk of losing valuable fissile material, they obtained the less well guarded Sodium 22 and shipped it in containers that they hoped would be sufficient to fool the security scanners. They were inadequate, so back to the drawing board.

I consider myself a clever dude, but I probably wouldn't have thought of that one

I don't believe it..and here's why. Come on they just ran a virtual exercise involving this same topic with prominent Russian and US officials, and then months later we have this..BS

Source

NTI sponsored a “tabletop exercise” that simulated a crisis involving seizures of kilogram-quantities of weapons-usable nuclear material. Involving prominent Russian and US experts, this simulation demonstrated that there are significant but removable barriers to effectively and safely managing the crisis. These barriers are so serious that they could lead to significant delays in the two governments’ ability to act and ultimately could compromise successfully thwarting the detonation of a terrorist nuclear device.

The report--available in Russian and English--outlines the scenario, observations and findings and recommendations from the exercise. It also includes a paper addressing the legal basis for US-Russian cooperation in response to a nuclear smuggling incident.

Wouldn't surprise me if the US is the next one to seize amounts of the material, just as outlined in the report

Originally posted by patmac573
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

This is nothing ,if you take the time to read you will see that it is a calibration tool (sodium-22) do not do as the Mass Media and Blow it out of proportion

Blow what out of proportion. It is you who have blown this out of proportion by claiming I have done so. Please point out where I have blown this out of proportion in the same manner that you have obviously done.

You must have missed the whole OP where I actually took the time to mention there is probably a very innocent reason for this news and that the media is probably blowing it out of the proportion.

Thank you for going out of your way to do the exact same thing you were telling me not to do, which is blowing things out of proportion

I find it rather amusing that you actually had the nerve to say I didn't take the time to read, when you obviously didn't even take the time to read the opening post.

What's with the trolls in this thread, am I in the twilight zone?

Looks very much like the Russians are coming onside. Trying to gain support as protests increase?