Santa Monica atheists declare war on Christmas

Heaven for Atheist - 3rd possibility

reply to post by BadNinja68

Christianity FOUNDED America. Read our delcaration of independence, POA, or constitution. No god would have meant no America.

No, it did not. I wish you people would read your history and stop making that claim. Many of the Founding Fathers were Deists, not Christians, and the First Amendment came about because of Christianity. Thomas Jefferson authored his own version of the New Testament. The Founding Fathers were of a variety of faiths: Deist, various Christian denominations, and some who had no religious affiliation. Some supported organized religion, and some were vehemently opposed to it.

According to the Treaty of Tripoli (article 11), a document written by a chaplain in Washington's Army and ratified by Congress in 1797:

"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion..."

That statement alone shoots the argument that the country was founded in Christianity in the foot.

Our money says "In God We Trust" because, in the 50s, it was decided that this (as well as "one nation under God" in the pledge) would differentiate the US from the "Godless Communists."
A law passed by the 84th Congress on July 30, 1956 declaring IN GOD WE TRUST the national motto of the United States. IN GOD WE TRUST was first used on paper money in 1957.

reply to post by randyvs


Honestly, when I started this thread I had alot to say about it, but I began to feel that it was something that would become a heated topic, and felt that my personal views would be better left out of the OP and stick to the facts of the story.

Originally posted by autowrench
No, it did not. I wish you people would read your history and stop making that claim. Many of the Founding Fathers were Deists, not Christians, and the First Amendment came about because of Christianity. Thomas Jefferson authored his own version of the New Testament. The Founding Fathers were of a variety of faiths: Deist, various Christian denominations, and some who had no religious affiliation. Some supported organized religion, and some were vehemently opposed to it.

According to the Treaty of Tripoli (article 11), a document written by a chaplain in Washington's Army and ratified by Congress in 1797:

"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion..."

That statement alone shoots the argument that the country was founded in Christianity in the foot.

Our money says "In God We Trust" because, in the 50s, it was decided that this (as well as "one nation under God" in the pledge) would differentiate the US from the "Godless Communists."
A law passed by the 84th Congress on July 30, 1956 declaring IN GOD WE TRUST the national motto of the United States. IN GOD WE TRUST was first used on paper money in 1957.

I had this debate with my dad, I was on your side, I lost. While some were more secular, there are Christian roots in our nation, that is just a fact. The nation was found on the people, people who happened to be basically all Christian.

George Washing quote while towards Native Americans:
"You do well to wish to learn our arts and our ways of life and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are. Congress will do everything they can to assist you in this wise intention."

reply to post by isyeye


Ok so it was a concious decision. Just try to let people know when I see their fairly new to the site. All good.

Is there a reason that whenever some religious display is made, it is supporting their own beliefs without attacking the other side (save a few), while with atheism it is exactly opposite. Is there some rule I overlooked when becoming agnostic atheist that said "You must lash out at any and all religious holidays and festivities whether you celebrate them or not."
Come on, if you don't beleive in this or don't like it, don't celebrate it, it's as simple as that. There is no reason for you to be attacking someone else's beliefs. While you may be thinking "They (religious) get to put up signs, why can't I?" you fail to realze that their signs do not attack, but defend. Your sign attacks. Stop the intolerance.

I personally don't believe in any of the religions, but don't understand why some folks feel the need to ruin religion for those who do believe. I've noticed that some people need religion to make it through their day. The only time you'll ever catch me taking a stab at religion is when I fear that religion is being forced upon me or when I fear that religion is dictating the law of the land.

I don't know what harm it does to allow people to celebrate their religious holiday.

Originally posted by tamusan
I personally don't believe in any of the religions, but don't understand why some folks feel the need to ruin religion for those who do believe.

Religious displays can be put any where on private property.

The problem here is the location is government sanctioned.

Being from the 50s - - I remember Christians viciously fighting to deny any non-Christian displays including Hanukkah displays on city hall lawns - - which of course is government that belongs to everyone.

There are some city governments that banned all displays - - rather then allow any other belief.

I have ZERO sympathy for Christians - - even if it is Christmas - - thinking only they can display on government sanctioned property.

The Atheists are right in this fight for equality - - - even if it seems childish and cruel.

These atheists have the right to put whatever they want on a billboard if they pay for it......however that doesn't mean it's not stupid. Nobody is going to change their mind about their beliefs from a billboard, and nobody should try to change someone's mind in such a fashion. It's just stupid. I'm not religious, but I still like Christmas. It's the most wonderful time of the year. Come on people.

Does seeing Christmas decorations really offend these atheists sooooooo much that it causes them to lose sleep?

Originally posted by MisterFister103
These atheists have the right to put whatever they want on a billboard if they pay for it......however that doesn't mean it's not stupid.

It is not stupid and it is not about Christmas.

It is about equality and separation of church and state.

Hey! Let's talk about Christians trying to force themselves in non-Christian areas of the world.

Then cry about it when they get the boot or attacked. They seem to think they have every right to force their religion - - where its not wanted.

I was raised Christian - - I am fully aware of their arrogant self-entitlement.

They do not - - nor should they have any special entitlement to display on government sanctioned property.

IF - Atheists had a special day of the year.

Who believes Christians wouldn't be doing everything in their power to slander it?

But - - Atheists are not slandering Christians or Christmas.

They are making a statement of separation of church and state.

reply to post by autowrench


Um, no athiests would not have the right.

To have that right (under freedom of religion) they would have to declare themselves a religion as well.

And atheism isn't a religion...right?

reply to post by Annee


You must be looking a different signs than those posted by the OP.

The atheists have not only singled out only one religion, they openly mock and slander it.

That would (if laws were actually followed equally) be breaking two seperate laws:
a) Slander unless they can absolutely prove that religion does not exist.

b) Discrimination or Hate Crimes for singling out only one specific group from many.

Ironically, you should be very disturbed by this. You have been very vocal when tactics like this are used against the LBGT community on this forum multiple times.

I guess it only matters if it effects your causes?

I say this as an atheist that was raised under religion.

This is disgusting.

I have every right to believe what I wish to believe.

And I believe that ever person should have that right without molestation or degradation.

That includes those that have beliefs counter to my own.

Another year, another "atheists are at war with christmas" thread. Hokum.

If ANYONE can give me one good reason why atheists shouldnt be afforded the right to make a public display of their beliefs, the same as they are forced to endure EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THE YEAR from christians, I'd love to hear it.

Otherwise this is just another in a long line of "atheists are ruining everything" posts with no actual basis.

Originally posted by peck420
reply to post by Annee

 

You must be looking a different signs than those posted by the OP.

The atheists have not only singled out only one religion, they openly mock and slander it.

That would (if laws were actually followed equally) be breaking two seperate laws:
a) Slander unless they can absolutely prove that religion does not exist.

b) Discrimination or Hate Crimes for singling out only one specific group from many.

Ironically, you should be very disturbed by this. You have been very vocal when tactics like this are used against the LBGT community on this forum multiple times.

I guess it only matters if it effects your causes?

Are you trying to claim that christians do not slander and mock athists ad nauseum? Or is it another case of "can dish it out, but can't take it"?

reply to post by captaintyinknots


Because, and I say this as an Atheist, I can't prove that the other beliefs are wrong.

Plain and simple.

For me to put up public signs claiming something to be false, I must have proof, or I can be held liable for my statements.

I do wish that this was also applied to religions themselves, but they get some protection from freedom of religion, where Atheism (as it is not a religion) does not.

The irony is this, if they had posted a sign only stating that Santa Clause is not real, it would be 100% legal. We can prove that without any doubt, that Santa does not currently exist.

But, I have respect for others and more importantly their children.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


Nope, I think they should get drawn up on any signs of those types.

I would be perfectly happy if it was a level playing field, but it isn't. And, it won't be for some time.

Ideally I would like it to read 'freedom from religion', not 'freedom of religion', but that is my personal view. Until that becomes the legal view, I will abide by current laws.

reply to post by 12voltz


The funny thing is, I have friends of all faiths and lack thereof. I don't push my religion in their face and they don't tell me that my religion is wrong.

We live and let live.

But sometimes, you get idiots like the one the OP is talking about. Those annoying little ass-hats who can't prove one thing one way or another that something does or doesn't exist. (This goes for both parties.) It all boils down to belief. Either you have it or you don't. It's that simple.

Originally posted by peck420
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

Because, and I say this as an Atheist, I can't prove that the other beliefs are wrong.

Plain and simple.

For me to put up public signs claiming something to be false, I must have proof, or I can be held liable for my statements.

I do wish that this was also applied to religions themselves, but they get some protection from freedom of religion, where Atheism (as it is not a religion) does not.

The irony is this, if they had posted a sign only stating that Santa Clause is not real, it would be 100% legal. We can prove that without any doubt, that Santa does not currently exist.

But, I have respect for others and more importantly their children.

And? Not being able to prove them wrong has nothing to do with it. When talking about religion, nothing i s proven. It is all about 'faith'. If they cant prove it true, why is it illegal for me to claim it isnt? Pretty much the same thing there, dontcha think?

Atheists have the same right to have faith that christians are wrong, as the christians have to have faith that they are right.

Not to mention the fact that there is no evidence that christianity is true, therefore, the absence of any proof on their side backs up the atheist position.

Atheism IS protected by freedom of speech, and assembly. It is just as protected as christianity. And it is not illegal in any way to claim that a religion is wrong. It's called opinion, and again, it is backed up by freedom of speech.