A problem with Dr.Paul

Ron Paul may be the choice for President for many of the people pissed off at the system, however wasn't Obama too? I compare Ron Paul to Obama. He is a great idea, has a huge growing following, and speaks to many different ppl. However when picking a President most of the population doesn't realize that the one who will get elected will need to be someone who is mainstream, who will work with the system, and not try to bring it down. That's why people don't like Ron Paul. He wont play nice. It's why Obama was the choice of the people but got only a few things done. Ron Paul may end up being an empty promise like Obama.

I think Ron Paul might end up being another Obama; a do nothing President

Originally posted by jjf3rd77
Ron Paul may be the choice for President for many of the people pissed off at the system, however wasn't Obama too? I compare Ron Paul to Obama. He is a great idea, has a huge growing following, and sparks to many different ppl. However when picking a President most of the population doesn't realize that the one who will get elected will need to be someone who is mainstream, who will work with the system, and not try to bring it down. That's why people don't like Ron Paul. He wont play nice. It's why Obama was the choice of the people but got only a few things done. Ron Paul may end up being an empty promise like Obama.

I think Ron Paul might end up being another Obama; a do nothing President

Ron Paul has a consistent record going back decades. We know where he stands. He never spins anything, and will say something that is politically incorrect if he believes it to be true.

Obama came out of nowhere, spend part of a term in the Senate, and became president because he sounded good. No one really knew much about him, other than what he wrote in his books and said on the campaign trail. He also had the record of voting "present", so he didn't have to actually pick a side.

Sorry, but I think that your comparison of the two fails miserably. Ron Paul would be nothing like Obama.

Originally posted by jjf3rd77
Ron Paul may be the choice for President for many of the people pissed off at the system, however wasn't Obama too? I compare Ron Paul to Obama. He is a great idea, has a huge growing following, and speaks to many different ppl. However when picking a President most of the population doesn't realize that the one who will get elected will need to be someone who is mainstream, who will work with the system, and not try to bring it down. That's why people don't like Ron Paul. He wont play nice. It's why Obama was the choice of the people but got only a few things done. Ron Paul may end up being an empty promise like Obama.

I think Ron Paul might end up being another Obama; a do nothing President

edit on 15-12-2011 by jjf3rd77 because: (no reason given)

Ron Paul has a LONG history of serving our Country. Obama is the new kid on the block. RP has a *working* knowledge of our Constitution. Obama is scared #less of our Constitution. Big difference I say. I disagree with you in more ways than you are probably years old.

reply to post by jjf3rd77


I'm sure Ron would be a veto king. Vetoing everything congress puts against us.

Ron Paul will do exactly as he says,

Provided they let him.

What you need to remember is Obama has always been in the bankers pockets.

Where as Mr Paul Has Always been on the side of the people and their rights, or liberty.

With Paul as POTUS, you can be damn sure there will be a few rocky years ahead, just while we all adjust and build a new, fair system.

But I promise you now, it will be a world you could only dream of, where life means something, and everybody works together for a greater good, which I suspect would be space exploration,

Once he frees up some of this suppressed technology

Come on America, its been said many times but.......This is not just your last hope, its everyone's last hope/chance.

Make it count

reply to post by WarJohn


Hopefully he would help expose Congress members, who are known to have taken backhanders.

And then when the American public start voting real men into power, they (I would hope) would start submitting
real ideas, not just ones to F* over citizens of the world.

reply to post by jjf3rd77


Simply, no. Obama got in partially because there were a bunch of people that were dissatisfied with the way the republicans ran things. I hate that our country is so party driven, but thats the reality. Additionally, you attempt to compare Paul to Obama. Obama barely had any track record in politics and this spoke to some people as well, thinking that he would change the status quo because he has not been indoctrinated into the corruption for a long time. Paul has been in the game since 1976 and has a huge track record that clearly asserts that Ron is not afraid of the status quo and will speak out against it if he feels it is right to do so.

Now, Paul may not accomplish anything substantial in terms of progress, as presidents dont really have the power to change anything. That being said, he would definitely make sure the american public is hearing the things they need to hear in order to keep our liberties. He will also veto any bill that have ideas that directly conflict with the bill of rights. He will also make sure that we are not involved in worthless overseas military expenditures.

The problem I see is not his problem, it is the peoples problem. When he speaks he is direct and to the point. He can say in one sentence what it takes every other politician several paragraphs to summarize. Ron leaves out all the fodder and people do not know how to respond without all the political mumbo jumbo mixed in.

What if RP gets elected and then he gets debrief and everything he stood for goes out the window. Would he come clean and tell the American public the secrets the govt is hiding or does he go along with the program just like every other puppet that has been put in office. It would be truly amazing to see if "we the people" really have a say in anything. I pray every night this man gets the chance to be elected and wins. We would really find out whats up at that point. Maybe thats why they are so scared of him

Originally posted by Skewed
The problem I see is not his problem, it is the peoples problem. When he speaks he is direct and to the point. He can say in one sentence what it takes every other politician several paragraphs to summarize. Ron leaves out all the fodder and people do not know how to respond without all the political mumbo jumbo mixed in.

Exactly! When the average person listens to someone speak, they listen to 2-4 words of the sentence and cling to them. They start deciding if they like those words and weather or not they want to interpret them negatively or positively (often determined by how eloquent the sentence was, and the body language of the presenter).

reply to post by jjf3rd77


I think Ron Paul would be more of a 'Can't Do Anything' President than a Do Nothing President like Obama, if that makes sense. He would never be able to pass any of his policies through congress.

On a side note, I am fairly convinced that Ron Paul is the NWO's puppet, as are the rest of the politicians. He has been hand groomed for a specific purpose like the rest of the candidates, and it is just his time to take the lead; Based on the way the American public is thinking. Thoughts?

I can see what the OP is saying, although the comparison to Obama was probably in poor taste because it will piss a lot of people off haha.

The point is that RP, even if he WANTS to do a lot of amazing things, will be unable if Congress does not let him. This happened a lot at the beginning of Obama's term with the filibuster. You can bet that either the Republicans or the Democrats are going to be against him on any given bill, depending on what it is, and they will filibuster him repeatedly. The one place Ron would have a good deal of control would be foreign policy, which is in my opinion where he is needed most. That and the budget, which the White House and Congress work extremely closely on. I hope RP can pare down our defense budget and save us a good deal of money that way, and not attempt to tackle big domestic issues like "healthcare" because he'll never make much of anything through Congress and as such he will lose a lot of his political capital for no gain.

So yeah, this WAS a huge issue with Obama, and it will probably be an issue with RP as well. We absolutely cannot think that just because he says he will do things that he actually has the power to accomplish them. His integrity will be extremely important and it's what I am banking on, because I am very liberal and do not actually want any of his anti-poor legislation (ie, ending education and welfare-type programs, etc) to go through... I want him to fix our reputation abroad, pull us out of useless wars, and make honest politicians a reality, which is honestly all we should really expect of him if he does manage to get elected. Domestically, RP can't do much of anything with the approval of Congress.

Originally posted by sd211212
What if RP gets elected and then he gets debrief and everything he stood for goes out the window. Would he come clean and tell the American public the secrets the govt is hiding or does he go along with the program just like every other puppet that has been put in office.

If Ron Paul has put on this act for 35 years only to switch his stance, you would be able to color me surprised. That being said, IF Paul becomes another puppet, I have quite a bit of faith that a violent revolution would come down upon his head. The only reason Paul is going to win the election is because he is saying the truth. People are getting accustomed to it now, and if that stops I think many will feel it is time to burn the whole system. I mean, the best candidate for the republic turns on the people? Most will not stand for this.

Originally posted by spacekc929

The point is that RP, even if he WANTS to do a lot of amazing things, will be unable if Congress does not let him. This happened a lot at the beginning of Obama's term with the filibuster.

Nope, The 111th congress (the one Obama had in the begining) actually passed almost everything Obama wanted. There were more Dem's than Repub's. Now in the 112th (current) Obama has opposition, but that apparently didnt stop him from requesting the part about the new DoD Authorization act remove the segment that states it is not to be used against american citizens; and he got what he wanted. Probably a good thing Obama's "fr-enemy" McCain helped author the bill, as he is a repub and thus gets rid of the filibuster issue.

Ron Paul will find an obstructionist congress just as Obama found an obstructionist congress. The President isn't omnipotent and all-powerful. Ron Paul will find himself dealing with obstructionists in TWO parties, versus Obama's dealing with obstructionists in one party. It's not fair to say Ron Paul will "break promises" just because Congress blocks his actions, any more than it's fair to say Obama broke his promises when Congress blocked those. That's actually those "checks and balances" put in place by the founding fathers.

TBH I don't expect Ron Paul - should he win the general election - to get his way in a lot of things. He's authored a number of bills as a Representative and very few of those have been passed, even by his own party.

A better title for this thread should be "A problem FOR Dr. Paul", because he is not a part of the Republican establishment or the Corporatist oligarchy currently running Congress, and he will have to deal with their obstructionist agenda, or cave into their demands for more corporate hegemony.

reply to post by derst1988


That is the point. If he was to win the office and when he is briefed I can see where there could possibly be certain things in motion that could force him to change his stance. I get that, I myself have had situations where I would make a decision based off the details at that point in time and later another detail would emerge that would have changed my mind as to what my decision was going to be. But I think if he found himself in that position, if he would step up and explain to us the whys and whats more people would go along with it. It would also cut down on the conspiracy theories when we are left to fill in the blanks ourselves. As long as he told us the truth I think I would be ok with that for the most part.

reply to post by spacekc929


It doesn't matter, RP can keep some of his campaign promises.

He COULD CHOOSE not to re-authorize the patriot act. He COULD CHOOSE to veto bills like SOPA/PIPA/NDAA.

He COULD CHOOSE to mobilize the troops.

He COULD CHOOSE not to enforce the laws written by congress.

He COULD CHOOSE to repeal all past executive orders and CHOOSE not to legislate laws by executive order like the Presidency was meant for.

He COULD CHOOSE to do a lot of things but he can't choose which laws to write and which budgets get passed.

Ron may butt heads with the house but there are a lot of things he doesn't need their approval on that would be a great step in the right direction for this nation.

At the end of the day, WE ARE RESPONSIBLE for the CHANGE we want in this country. If we want a congress that represents us CORRECTLY, then we should do it. Let's not make Ron Paul responsible for our job before he even becomes president, we've let the government decide what is best for us, for too long already.

Ron will tell the hard truth, about the real state of this economy and what our foreign policy has gotten us into and let us decide and take responsibility for those decisions.

So stop complaining about how congress won't approve any of his ideas. Congress represents the people so if congress doesn't approve, it means you're not approving. If you approve things like Ron's trillion dollar cut in the first year then tell your reps to REP you and get things done. If they tell you they can't represent you properly, you demand they resign immediately.

Understand how the system works and use it to your benefit, STOP COMPLAINING.

reply to post by eLPresidente


Star for you!

Lets not forget the Fascism! He will make sure everyone knows about the secret fascism going on in our country, not just the people on the fringe (Us)

reply to post by eLPresidente


I never said any of those things weren't possible and that RP is going to be a figurehead president - I said that RP is not some Messiah who is going to come in and make all the changes we want to see instantly. Changing my congresspeople is about more than just me telling them to do things - there are serious campaign finance laws that need to be dealt with that influence how our Congresspeople act, and there is serious corporate money in politics that I can't get out by telling my Congressperson how I think. They act according to who has the most money/influence and I'll be the first to admit that I don't have any of that.

I am not complaining or sitting around whining about how RP is "unelectable." I think he's the most electable Republican candidate and that he's got a great chance to beat Obama. I think RP will have a lot of influence and his integrity and willingness to uphold the Constitution is great. I am 100% voting for Ron Paul and I am considering being a volunteer on his campaign. I just think we shouldn't place all of our trust into one man. I did that with Obama and got screwed. I don't think RP will screw me, but I know that he is not Jesus - he can't do everything on his own and in certain instances he NEEDS Congress's approval, which is a lot harder to get than the simple "just call them and tell them to vote for what you want." I would suggest you take a look at how things are actually run and then attempt to get Congress to follow the Constitution by writing to them, and if you can do that, I will rescind my judgment of that method...but what really needs to be dealt with are campaign finance laws and corporate control, and as much as RP is great, he doesn't have any Constitutional influence over that.

He has the power to start the ball rolling, I agree, and I think he's the best chance we've got. I just don't want people to make the same mistake that so many people made with Obama and then, LATER, whine about how RP is not doing everything they want him to do. He can't, literally the Constitution will not allow him to do everything we want him to do or even everything he wants to do - change in American politics is meant to be a grueling process, not a flowery rainbowy funtime.

reply to post by jjf3rd77


The difference could not be more night and day...

Ron Paul has one thing Obama almost none of...

Experience.. lots and lots of experience.. not to mention a spotless voting record...