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Please Stop Using This Bad Argument

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posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 08:04 PM
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I completely agree with those that say it is blindingly arrogant to think that there isn't any other intelligent life elsewhere in the universe.

I think, however, it is just as arrogant to think one of those intelligent species would travel unimaginably huge distances for centuries or millenia to come to our rather tiny little planet just to secretly meddle with our ultimately insignificant lives.




posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 08:21 PM
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Originally posted by TheRedP1LL
This is the way I like to think about. Talking numbers. There are billions of billions of galaxies besides ours. Inside of those galaxies are billions upon billions of planetary masses. If the chances of Alien sentient life evolving and becoming similar to ours, is one in a billion. Then that would mean there are billions of planets with life on them.
My thoughts.



Frank Drake, puts a number of other important factors into the equation, like how many civilisations would have developed technology to get them off their home planet, also how long lived those civilisations might last.

For all we know there may have been billions of alien civilisations that have all become extinct due to warefare disesease or planetary disaters.

There may have been billions of planets that harboured intelligent alien life in the Universe, but how many exist in the exact time frame as us humans is anyones guess.



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 08:38 PM
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reply to post by Chamberf=6
 


I dont think people are saying there is no life in the universe....as you say, its quite illogical to think like that.

Many people do believe there is life beyond our little rock, what is debatable is them coming here. There is no solid evidence to back it up. A few blurry pics, and youtube videos.

I filmed the moon a while ago...uploaded it to youtube and claimed it was a UFO.....no one argued it wasnt, even though it was quite clear it was the moon. People see what they want to. People have faith in all kinds of silly things.

A lot of people have grown up with aliens in films, books, tv shows, so there is no surprise there are people that believe its a fact...they saw it on tv after all

I personally believe its a way for the elite to stop people thinking about the real issues that we face as a race "Its ok, the aliens will come and save us from ourselves"

Sightings have increased purely because the amount of things that fly nowadays, be it commercial airliners or new technology being tested. Most of the videos i have seen have been explained...even though the believers dont believe that its man made lol...and will argue until blue in the face....my moon vid being a prime example


Why did i make a hoax vid???? To get feedback (see the gullibility of people), and to make money

Its hilarious knowing people think the moon is aliens....so if people think the moon is a UFO...what else would they think/claim was a UFO???



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 08:45 PM
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Originally posted by Chamberf=6
I completely agree with those that say it is blindingly arrogant to think that there isn't any other intelligent life elsewhere in the universe.

I think, however, it is just as arrogant to think one of those intelligent species would travel unimaginably huge distances for centuries or millenia to come to our rather tiny little planet just to secretly meddle with our ultimately insignificant lives.

You're assuming they travel by means we can comprehend. They likely travel by means which are hypothetical topological, such as worm holes. There's no centuries of travel time involved then.

@the thread, It's up to those who say aliens do exist to establish their point with evidence.
The burden of evidence lies not with the person who has nothing to prove. That's 101 material.



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 09:27 PM
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I still don't see what's to debate. We have all the proof we need that ETs have visited earth.

Real craft have been recorded travelling faster than any man made object is capable, on radar and witnessed by military personel. One example out of millions regarding the military intrest in UFOs.

The fact that, no matter how many fake vids and photos there out there, there's still a chance a few of those are real.

NASA footage that shows so many things that look like flying craft/entities, from metallic speres that morpth, to fleets of the things flying round in formation...taking interest and flying towards man made tech in space (and down ea)...even appearing over storms and natural disasters....something up there ^^^ is intelligent.

Don't take a brain surgeon to figure, if it looks like a duck and quaks like a duck...its a duck.

Testimonys frm credible people and astronauts! I actually read through all the NASA transcripts and the was talk of glowing rocks, mining, clouds, storms. Great mountain scenery! Even astronemers have talked for hundreds of years about those things.

How we all believe our creater came from the sky, I'm one form or another.
The missing link in human evolution.
Thousands of ancient references by our ancestors, that we pass off as non-sence. Why would a cave man lie or imagine beings from space??
Holes in our history.
Pyramids and wonders of the world.
How we might really live in the matrix and cannot see what is so blatently in front of us.

And finally to the people who say why don't they show them selves? They do, everyday to thousands of people who are apparently suffering mass hallusinations.

Is it not staring us in the face??


Sorry for the typos, on me phone.
edit on 14-12-2011 by Sinny because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 09:30 PM
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reply to post by StarPeace
 


You can't prove a negative. Nothing more needs to be said.
2nd



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 10:09 PM
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reply to post by TheLegend
 





They likely travel by means which are hypothetical topological, such as worm holes.


You say I'm assuming, yet you say they likely use wormholes, which are completely hypothetical and unproven...



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 11:58 PM
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Originally posted by Chamberf=6
reply to post by TheLegend
 



They likely travel by means which are hypothetical topological, such as worm holes.

You say I'm assuming, yet you say they likely use wormholes, which are completely hypothetical and unproven...

You said that they would "travel for centuries or millenia" to get here. That's an either-or fallacy since you're excluding possible alternatives for modes of travel that could be instant or affect your set parameter of time. I gave a third alternative (and aliens are "hypothetical and unproven" too, so wormholes being hypothetical is irrelevant). If there are interstellar aliens then their mode of transport is likely something that's theoretical today just as flying was theoretical 1,000 years ago. This isn't a fact but many scientists (e.g. Michio Kaku) think it makes much more sense than rocket fuel, especially after the Millennium Simulation.

Yep, you're assuming, as am I and everyone else here since this is a topic about aliens.
edit on 15-12-2011 by TheLegend because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 01:34 AM
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reply to post by Sinny
 

Lack of an explanation does not justify confecting whatever explanation one would prefer. The inexplicable is just that, and does not justify speculation as proof. I can provide explanations for all of your post and, following Occam's Razor, it will be more likely.

The government tests experimental craft daily and have billions spent annually on black budget funds. Any UFO today is more likely a government military craft than anything extraterrestrial (you have to follow which hypothesis makes the fewest assumptions).

Those astronauts were all washed up or retired by the time they "admitted" anything, as was everyone else who "testified". What's to say they didn't do it for publicity due to a fading life? Maybe you're unaware of what people do for money and power.

"Why would a caveman imagine things in space"--because he has nothing else to look at other than his ugly wife. And all the supposed "technological" references in our ancient past could just have been a human society that was more evolved than the rest of us and they died out from war. Nothing alien about that. The Antikythera Mechanism shows that we don't give our ancestors nearly as much credit as they deserve.

There is no DNA, there is no intelligible, lasting signals from other worlds, and there is no direct, public contact. These are the three things that will prove aliens exist...and until then UFO/alien lovers are just wasting their time on reporting everything else.

And, you'd be surprised, but I do think aliens visited Earth (picked up a lot from my father who worked at WSMR for 27 yrs). There's increasing disclosure daily and more planets are being discovered thanks to the launch of Keplar in 2009. They found over 700 planets now. There's an inevitable conclusion at the end of this road.



posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 01:43 AM
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Originally posted by Chamberf=6
I completely agree with those that say it is blindingly arrogant to think that there isn't any other intelligent life elsewhere in the universe.

I think, however, it is just as arrogant to think one of those intelligent species would travel unimaginably huge distances for centuries or millenia to come to our rather tiny little planet just to secretly meddle with our ultimately insignificant lives.



You are making an assumption that A. E.T. is not capable of folding space....and B....that they do not have a legitamite purpose for doing so. Split Infinity



posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 04:32 AM
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Originally posted by Chamberf=6
I completely agree with those that say it is blindingly arrogant to think that there isn't any other intelligent life elsewhere in the universe.


To assert there is no life elsewhere, based on zero data, is arrogant.
To assert there is life elsewhere, based on zero data, is equally arrogant.

We simply don't know.

However, there are no known reasons why there shouldn't be life elsewhere, so most of us work on the assumption that there most likely is.

As for them popping over here for a quick peek, well, that's a different story...



posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 04:41 AM
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Originally posted by StarPeace
I don't mean to sound harsh, I just don't want this to turn into some unrelated/offtopic religion bashing thread.

I will edit my OP just avoid posts like this..


Why? It is the same point exactly

And if you can prove God exists, then because he is not of this Earth ergo a true ET, then you have just proven that ET's exist

See? the arguments go hand in hand



edit on 15-12-2011 by zorgon because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 04:45 AM
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Originally posted by BagBing
We simply don't know.


Well maybe we will know soon because we are sending them messages 18years 69 days before it reaches the Gliese 581 system


Hello Gliese 581d inhabitant. Can you help us humans travel through space and become smart like you. Please do not eat us we are a friendly race.
Angus Pigott
Canberra, Australia


Yup that is the top picked message


www.hellofromearth.net...




posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 04:50 AM
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Originally posted by Sinny
I still don't see what's to debate. We have all the proof we need that ETs have visited earth.


I've yet to see it.


Originally posted by Sinny
Real craft have been recorded travelling faster than any man made object is capable, on radar and witnessed by military personel.


Where is the proof that radar blips are real craft (alien manufactured vehicles)?


Originally posted by Sinny
NASA footage that shows so many things that look like flying craft/entities, from metallic speres that morpth, to fleets of the things flying round in formation...taking interest and flying towards man made tech in space (and down ea)...even appearing over storms and natural disasters....something up there ^^^ is intelligent.


Anyone with a cursory interest in space flight fully understands what these 'things' are, and the mechanics behind them.


Originally posted by Sinny
The missing link in human evolution.
Thousands of ancient references by our ancestors, that we pass off as non-sence. Why would a cave man lie or imagine beings from space??
Holes in our history.
Pyramids and wonders of the world.


There's no missing link.
There's no evidence at all that cavemen saw aliens. You're mistaking stylised art for ET.
Holes in our history? You mean it gets more vague the further back we go. Which is expected.
Pyramids are just rocks stacked on top of each other. No aliens required.


Originally posted by Sinny
And finally to the people who say why don't they show them selves? They do, everyday to thousands of people who are apparently suffering mass hallusinations.

Is it not staring us in the face??


Misidentifying something doesn't equate to ET. And proof is not staring me in the face...



NORAD publishes tracking data every year of strange movements around the entire planet. There are millions of witnesses who describe visual and audible events. There is ground data in the form of missing mince pies and presents. Using your standard of evidence, we can prove Santa is real...



posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 05:58 AM
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Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by StarPeace
I don't mean to sound harsh, I just don't want this to turn into some unrelated/offtopic religion bashing thread.

I will edit my OP just avoid posts like this..


Why? It is the same point exactly

And if you can prove God exists, then because he is not of this Earth ergo a true ET, then you have just proven that ET's exist

See? the arguments go hand in hand



edit on 15-12-2011 by zorgon because: (no reason given)


It's by no means the same thing. Whether or not you believe in a God, that belief is faith based. Faith does not require proof, in fact if there is proof then you no longer need faith.

Trouble is, for many, ET is also faith based - belief without proof. Now, you can do that with a God concept (it doesn't work without it), but to put forward the same thing for ET visitation doesn't really hold much water.



posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 12:32 PM
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Originally posted by Sinny
I still don't see what's to debate. We have all the proof we need that ETs have visited earth.

Real craft have been recorded travelling faster than any man made object is capable, on radar and witnessed by military personel.


What is the speed that has been recorded faster than any man made object is capable?

edit on 15-12-2011 by Logical one because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by something wicked
Trouble is, for many, ET is also faith based - belief without proof. Now, you can do that with a God concept (it doesn't work without it), but to put forward the same thing for ET visitation doesn't really hold much water.


Sure it does... all the gods, devils, demons and angels in all the religions of the world are NOT OF THIS EARTH... back in those days people did not understand what they were seeing so they called them gods...

Today we are more advanced and we can understand that these advanced beings are not gods, simply visitors from the heavens

Its EXACTLY the same thing

Back then they called them 'flaming chariots of the gods' 'flying shields' 'burning clouds'

Today we call them UFO and Flying saucers

The problem is after all these millenia we still have nothing to show



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 10:13 AM
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Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by something wicked
Trouble is, for many, ET is also faith based - belief without proof. Now, you can do that with a God concept (it doesn't work without it), but to put forward the same thing for ET visitation doesn't really hold much water.


Sure it does... all the gods, devils, demons and angels in all the religions of the world are NOT OF THIS EARTH... back in those days people did not understand what they were seeing so they called them gods...

Today we are more advanced and we can understand that these advanced beings are not gods, simply visitors from the heavens

Its EXACTLY the same thing

Back then they called them 'flaming chariots of the gods' 'flying shields' 'burning clouds'

Today we call them UFO and Flying saucers

The problem is after all these millenia we still have nothing to show


Actually, if you are going to quote me, please leave in the pertinent piece
You have no idea if people were actually seeing anything, and if they did, then you don't know what it was - you are making the assumptions meet your requirement that they were ET - doesn't work like that in the real world.



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