Please Stop Using This Bad Argument

Show Me Proof The Aliens Aren't Here/Visiting/ or Aren't Real

I know this seems to be a new phrase used by Hardcore believers backed into a corner with the "where's your proof aliens are here" argument.

It's really a bad statement, it's like saying

Show me proof Bugs Bunny Isn't Real.

Show me proof Santa Claus isn't real and visiting every Christmas

Show me proof That Pokemon and Digimon aren't Real

Yes people actually believe/d that Pokemon are real, there was a site and forum dedicated to it a few years ago. It might still be online.


Just admit that you believe logically that there is another civilization out there and it's possible that they are visiting. That would bring a lot more legitimacy to a argument.
The UFO topic is mostly speculation I wish people would just accept that, there nothing wrong with accepting that.

Edit: Sad I will have to add this.
Nothing to do with religion. If it did it would be in the religion section.(Obviously).
But I'm sure somebody will try to make some totally random and unrelated post about religion. It's the pattern of ATS for some reason.

this is the argument used against and in favor of god

show me proof that god doesnt exist

show me proof that god does exist .

l0l

I say show me proof they aren't real.

Dont get me wrong Im not a full blown believer in the subject but I do believe.

its statisticly impossible that we are the only planet with life, but i certainly wouldnt beleive 100% that aleins are visiting us without somesort of proof

Originally posted by OrNaM3nT
this is the argument used against and in favor of god

show me proof that god doesnt exist

show me proof that god does exist .

l0l

While that maybe be true
That does not have much to do with the OP.
I don't mean to sound harsh, I just don't want this to turn into some unrelated/offtopic religion bashing thread.


I will edit my OP just avoid posts like this..

Although I'm a proponent that the UFO phenomena represents an ongoing interaction between our species and some Non-Human Intelligence of unknown origins/purposes, I have to agree with you.

Another way this is called is 'arguing a negative'. Here's an appropriate Wiki article discussing how this is a logical fallacy in a debate.

Argument from Ignorance


But as an earlier poster said, this argument is often used in the Theist/Atheist debates. It really is the lowest form of debate. In reality if one looks back at only the last 50 or so years of the modern phenomena, one is able to pick out a wide swath of evidence that seems to indicate that something that is not human has been interacting with us for it's own purposes. Whether or not this indicates that it is Extraterrestrial in origin or not? Well that's another issue entirely.

So OP, Star and Flag for you!

reply to post by StarPeace

I agree.

It is very hard to prove that something doesn't exist.
It is pointless arguing back and forth.

The onus is on the person claiming they are real.....its like me saying i can fly, would you believe me?? It is for me to prove i can fly, not for you to disprove it, much like the god argument...its not for me to disprove it, it is for you to prove it

Originally posted by StarPeace

Show Me Proof The Aliens Aren't Here/Visiting/ or Aren't Real

I know this seems to be a new phrase used by Hardcore believers backed into a corner with the "where's your proof aliens are here" argument.

It's really a bad statement, it's like saying

Show me proof Bugs Bunny Isn't Real.

Show me proof Santa Claus isn't real and visiting every Christmas

Show me proof That Pokemon and Digimon aren't Real

Yes people actually believe/d that Pokemon are real, there was a site and forum dedicated to it a few years ago. It might still be online.


Just admit that you believe logically that there is another civilization out there and it's possible that they are visiting. That would bring a lot more legitimacy to a argument.
The UFO topic is mostly speculation I wish people would just accept that, there nothing wrong with accepting that.

Edit: Sad That I have to add this..
Nothing to do with religion. If it did it would be in the religion section.(Obviously).
But I'm sure somebody will try to make some totally random and unrelated post about religion. It's the pattern of ATS for some reason. (It already happened...).

edit on 14-12-2011 by StarPeace because: (no reason given)

You're right.

Not only is it common sense but the math even states that there's intelligent life out the however there nothing , not even the maths, that says they're coming here.

And why is the theme that if you need proof you're some kind of moron?

Without proof the holocaust would be a myth.
Without proof that the world was round most mariners would never have ventured further than what they knew to be safe.
Without proof anything that is outlandish is and does belong in the myth/fanatsy/hypothetical arena

Even a constructive theory (which is always riddles with little bits of proof) would be ok.

Until they get proof they've got expect what they get.

reply to post by ga-`tv-gi


sigh - may i reccommend a foundation course in formal logic ?

to disprove the existance of an object , or collection of objects in the known universe requires intimate knowledge of the entire universe - in short omnicience

to put it more simply , disprove there is a man hiding in a labryinth of unknown layout and dimension , with no assistance , no tools , , nothing but your own senses

how would you do it ? - even if you searched every inch of the babryinth - there is no way of nowing if the alledged man is not moving constantly ahead or behind you

so - tell me again - how do you disprove the existance of an object

Not being funny mate, but there is so much more evidence that they are ET/ED than a natural phenomenon.

Intelligent acting UFO's exist, no doubt about it, the only debate is what are they.

When you take all the sightings, of craft dating back to the start of civilisation, and the reported contact with occupants, the estimate of the situation document, the twining memo, the J egdar hoover memo,

The proven cover up, read Richard Dolan's UFO's and the national security state.

You can't blame us for using this argument, when you debunkers refuse to acknowledge the significance of the data already available.

Go and do some research rather than starting silly threads.

Originally posted by Soapusmaximus
Not being funny mate, but there is so much more evidence that they are ET/ED than a natural phenomenon.

Intelligent acting UFO's exist, no doubt about it, the only debate is what are they.

When you take all the sightings, of craft dating back to the start of civilisation, and the reported contact with occupants, the estimate of the situation document, the twining memo, the J egdar hoover memo,

The proven cover up, read Richard Dolan's UFO's and the national security state.

You can't blame us for using this argument, when you debunkers refuse to acknowledge the significance of the data already available.

Go and do some research rather than starting silly threads.

I don't think that anyone believes there's no such things as UFO's I heard one the other day at the beach. My mind ( mind being everything in my experence up to that point) told me that it was a low level jet fighter behind the treeline but I couldn't identify it so it was a UFO. Though I could be sure that it wasn't piloted by an alien just on probability.

Just because something is oustside of a persons life experience doesn't mean that it's aliens.

reply to post by StarPeace



It's a mystery.

There is no proof either for or against. We have opinions theories and hypothesis supported by circumstantial evidence which is elaborated further with conjecture. Nobody can be backed into a corner [Pro or Con] with that type of argument. Simply because the other person will or should counter with the same argument in reverse. The real question should be for both sides to ponder is how real is the "Possibility" of such a situation.

Work from there.

I believe both present and ancient visitation are "Possible"
I have no proof obviously but just believe it's possible, so therefore I will maintain an open mind on that possibility.

Originally posted by Soapusmaximus
Not being funny mate, but there is so much more evidence that they are ET/ED than a natural phenomenon.

Intelligent acting UFO's exist, no doubt about it, the only debate is what are they.

Really?

Even today man is discovering new natural phenomena, just because something looks odd to the observer does not mean that he/she isn't observing natural phenomena.

As for "intelligent acting UFOs".........there could be a whole host of man made explanations from secret military craft......remember the SR-71 Blackbird Mach 3 advanced aircraft was responsible for many "UFO" reports back in the 60s and 70s.
Secret aircraft being tested today could well be unmanned craft, and then there are the outright hoaxes.

Could any UFOs be ET?.........possibly but unlikely given the distances involved in getting to planet Earth.

There are far too many things on Earth that we don't know about to really consider anything "unknown" to be of ET origin.

The problem with UFOs is that for the past 60 years or more, there have been quite a few people working very hard to positively prove that at least some UFOs are of extraterrestrial origin. And they've failed miserably, there has not been a single piece of evidence which has proven it beyond a doubt.

Of course, finding such evidence could happen tomorrow, so the best we can say is that "so far" there's no proof that any UFOs are extraterrestrial craft. Everything from there becomes a matter of belief and faith. So asking for proof is not ridiculous, and in fact all sides of the argument would very much like to see it. We're all asking for proof, with the possible implication that most of us accept that there is an unknown probability that there might actually be some available. At least that's something.

Until that happens however, doubters still don't have to offer negative proof, and if supporters want to be accepted, they better be ready to either put up, or shut up.

Originally posted by Logical one
Could any UFOs be ET?.........possibly but unlikely given the distances involved in getting to planet Earth.

That's the real killer. Space. It's so incredibly big and cold and empty. Yeah, there are some pretty smart guys who have been able to imagine possibly ways the whole space problem could be solved. Or time travel problem, if you want to look at it that way. But it's all still just conjecture and fiction at this point.

Space. So huge.

Originally posted by Blue Shift

That's the real killer. Space. It's so incredibly big and cold and empty. Yeah, there are some pretty smart guys who have been able to imagine possibly ways the whole space problem could be solved. Or time travel problem, if you want to look at it that way. But it's all still just conjecture and fiction at this point.

Space. So huge.

That's the way I look at it, sure any ETs visiting Earth would have to be several thousand years ahead of modern man.......but regardless of how advanced they are they STILL face the same physical problems.
Would any alien for instance be able to lift our Earth off its axis and carry our planet on its shoulders like Atlas?.........Of course not..........the size and mass of Earth would be too great for any alien to lift onto its shoulders. Okay a little far fetched an example but it illustrates the point I'm making.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by ga-`tv-gi

 

sigh - may i reccommend a foundation course in formal logic ?

to disprove the existance of an object , or collection of objects in the known universe requires intimate knowledge of the entire universe - in short omnicience

to put it more simply , disprove there is a man hiding in a labryinth of unknown layout and dimension , with no assistance , no tools , , nothing but your own senses

how would you do it ? - even if you searched every inch of the babryinth - there is no way of nowing if the alledged man is not moving constantly ahead or behind you

so - tell me again - how do you disprove the existance of an object

Exactly

This is the way I like to think about. Talking numbers. There are billions of billions of galaxies besides ours. Inside of those galaxies are billions upon billions of planetary masses. If the chances of Alien sentient life evolving and becoming similar to ours, is one in a billion. Then that would mean there are billions of planets with life on them.
My thoughts.

Originally posted by Blue Shift

Originally posted by Logical one
Could any UFOs be ET?.........possibly but unlikely given the distances involved in getting to planet Earth.

That's the real killer. Space. It's so incredibly big and cold and empty. Yeah, there are some pretty smart guys who have been able to imagine possibly ways the whole space problem could be solved. Or time travel problem, if you want to look at it that way. But it's all still just conjecture and fiction at this point.

Space. So huge.

That's the problem. The Alien UFO'ers don't get it seems just how big space actually is. They don't realise that if a grain of sand on a beach in California represented a galaxy which had star systems and just one star system in the galaxy had intelligent life, then the next galaxy which might be the same could be as far away as a grain of sand on a beach in South Australia.


Also what they don't seem to take into account is that the closest planet to ours which has intelligent life my have intelligent life which hasn't even masterd fire yet. Or the next closest might be hunter gatherers or the next closest after that might have only just masterd the crossbow.

They're assuming that the closest alien life to our planet is not only intelligent but has masterd intergalactic space travel.