Moon and Sun this afternoon...???, page 1

reply to post by Thebel

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Ah,

ok thanks.

reply to post by Manhater

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I just checked with Stellarium and in New Hampshire it's cloudy too but the Sun is currently at 200 degrees (180 deg is due south) and the Moon is currently at 330 degrees (360 deg is due north) and 12 degrees below the horizon at present.

I have witnessed a shift in the stars to the left (Northwest) of my tall pine trees in my backyard facing north over the last year.

I know and am certain that the trees didn't move.

And No, I don't indulge in Wacky Tabbacky.



Peace

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

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Someone posted it the other day or last night.

That's all.

Was curious if it was true or not, because I can't see anything out there.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

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Interesting that you mention that because I only really stargaze primarily during the winter when the skies are clearer and also there are no mosquitoes out.

During the winter months when it's really cold out, I will suit up get a nice high quality (Cohiba, Macanudo) Cigar and go out in the backyard.

And gaze upwards usually to the North for there is considerably less light pollution.

Throughout the 15 or so years I have lived here at my present location, I have learned to associate the positions of the stars relative to the trees.

The Big Dipper, my reference point for years...ever since I was a child due to it's proximity to the North Star Polaris has always existed in the same location relative to the trees on my property until recently.


But..... if you recall an Airport in Tampa FL had to re designate it's 00 (North) Runway to the right due to true north shifting by 3 or 4 Degrees.

Which interestingly correlates with my observations.





Peace

reply to post by Manhater

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Check out Stellarium it tracks the skies from your location (Longitude and Latitude) by using your Internet connection demanding very little bandwidth.

It's your call to either, educate OR obfuscate.

Peace

reply to post by Manhater

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Well, as Soylent says, it's not true, but it does happen every 4 weeks - and we can see the Moon then, just before and just after to appears closest to the Sun (from our perspective) as a very thin crescent. At New Moon itself it's in total shade so we cannot see anything.

So, with the next New Moon on the 24th, look out on the 26th or 27th December for a very thin cresecent Moon visible at sunset

(or if you're up early, a similar crescent just before sunrise around the 22nd)

reply to post by nh_ee

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The positions of Earth's magnetic pole has no bearing on the posistion in the sky of any celestrial body.

If the magnetic north pole suddenly moved so it was directly under your house, the Sun and Moon would still rise and set just where they always have.

The very first sliver of the new crescent moon will be visible with the naked eye in India the morning of the 25th, with some simple optical aids, from the Philippines and Indonesia on the morning of the 25th this month. Winter and especially December provides us with the best chance to see the first sliver of the new crescent moon because the nights are the longest.

That's what crescent moon watch org says.

Edit to add;

Consequently, we would like to encourage as many observers as possible to try and observe the new crescent Moon from December 24th to December 26th, particularly those in the United Kingdom on December 25th.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

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The Earth's tilt relative to different parts of the sky changes seasonally. The stars you see in the winter will not be in the same position during the summer. So, yes -- the positions of stars will appear to shift over time.

Incorrect. The stars positions don't change. Think of the spinning Earth as a gyroscope. The position of our sun and planets will change through out the year. But not the stars.

Otherwise you would not be able to navigate by the North star.

Originally posted by Essan
reply to post by nh_ee

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The positions of Earth's magnetic pole has no bearing on the posistion in the sky of any celestrial body.

If the magnetic north pole suddenly moved so it was directly under your house, the Sun and Moon would still rise and set just where they always have.

Correct.

And I'd like to add that it is complete normal for the magnetic north to move. It has been moving at different rates ever since science has been measuring its location, for over 150 years. Right now it is in far northern Canada, West of Greenland, and is moving westward. Scientists think it will be near Russia in 50 years.

But, like you said, Magnetic north has nothing to do with the location of the stars in the sky. Even though magnetic North continues to Move, any amateur astronomer will tell you the Sky stays the same -- although it changes with the seasons and rotates around Polaris (the North Star) during the night.

There is something called "Precession" that slowly will cause the stars we see to shift, but that is a 26,000 year cycle, and the change is too slow to notice with the naked eye over a person's lifetime. However, because of precession, in 11,000 years we will have a different star we call the North Star.


nh_ee --
Are you sure this difference you notice in the big dipper this year as opposed to a few years ago isn't due to looking at it during a different time of the night or a different time of the year? For example, I know that for me this time f the year the Big Dipper is due North at sunset, but then rotates toward the east by midnight, then rotates back toward the North again by sunrise.

That is completely normal. The Big Dipper (being so far North in the night sky) will more noticeably rotate around the North star on a long winter night.

Originally posted by samkent
reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

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The Earth's tilt relative to different parts of the sky changes seasonally. The stars you see in the winter will not be in the same position during the summer. So, yes -- the positions of stars will appear to shift over time.

Incorrect. The stars positions don't change. Think of the spinning Earth as a gyroscope. The position of our sun and planets will change through out the year. But not the stars.

Otherwise you would not be able to navigate by the North star.

Yes, the stars do in fact look different seasonally -- but let me clarify my statement then to avoid the confusion you are having...

CLARIFICATION: The positions of the stars in the sky will change seasonally relative to the time of day they are in the sky.

For example, Orion is considered to be a late fall/winter/early spring constellation in the Northern hemisphere. That's because Orion is only visible in the night sky during those months. Orion is in the sky during the summer months, but only in the daytime, when the Sun is shining bright. Therefore Orion is not visible in the most of the Northern hemisphere in the summer. If you could see Orion in July during the daytime, it would be appear to be right next to the Sun.

So as the above example indicates, the sky DOES change seasonally. The positions of the stars I see in the sky at midnight on December 21st will look different than the position of the stars I see in the sky at midnight on June 21st. If our view of the stars didn't change as the year progressed, then there would be no Zodiac

Polaris (the North star), being so far North, is far enough from the Sun (relative to how we view it in the sky) that it is visible in the basically same location every night of the year and every hour of the night and day -- although you can't see it during the day.

reply to post by muse1111

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Maybe you saw a "sun dog"?
A sun dog is the reflection/refraction of sunlight off of ice crystals in the high atmosphere.

Example of a Sun dog

Sun dog Science


I saw the Moonrise last night (at about 8:00 PM), and it was well in the opposite direction from where the sun had set a couple of hours earlier.

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
reply to post by muse1111

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Maybe you saw a "sun dog"?

I am no expert, but it didn't look like that link. I could clearly make out the round definition and texture. It looked exactly as the moon does during full moons where you can see the shadows of the craters. The cloud cover today is too dense to see anything in the sky, dang it!

Originally posted by muse1111

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
reply to post by muse1111

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Maybe you saw a "sun dog"?

I am no expert, but it didn't look like that link. I could clearly make out the round definition and texture. It looked exactly as the moon does during full moons where you can see the shadows of the craters. The cloud cover today is too dense to see anything in the sky, dang it!

Well, then I have no idea what you saw yesterday at 4:30 CST, but it wasn't the Moon because I specifically watched the Moon rise at 8:00 PM EST. That means it could not have been in your sky at 4:30 CST. I remember it rising because it was a beautiful pumpkin-orange color and was dark near the top. It was a memorable-looking Moon.

I suppose I thought you saw a sun dog because of your original description of it. You originally said that you thought it looked like was the Sun behind clouds. Although I'm a bit confused why you would think that it was the Sun visible behind cloud cover if you could see Moon crater detail.

By the way, I've seen sun dogs that were more round, without the top and bottom "tails".

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