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Why are Republicans trying to raise my taxes?

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posted on Dec, 19 2011 @ 08:17 AM
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Originally posted by spacekc929
Class warfare? You've gotta be kidding me. The only ones with casualties are the poor. More like class genocide if you ask me. You can keep on harping about "redistribution of wealth" but if I were you I'd take a critical look at whose wealth is actually being redistributed and into what hands, and you would see that the rich are the ones making the bank right now while we all suffer...


This is why Bezzer always fails at this. While he cries about class warfare and redistribution of wealth, his party redistributes wealth from the poor to the ultra rich thus declaring war on the poor. He would rather that his tax dollars go to a billion dollar GE tax refund than help a poor family pay their bills and some food by putting money into the economy.




posted on Dec, 19 2011 @ 08:23 AM
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Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by spacekc929
 

Actually it's the democrats that are going to punish the middle class.

Right now, the bill has passed the House and is to the Senate. The current bill wants to cut government spending to pay for the continued tax cuts.
If the Senate doesn't vote for it, then they will, in effect, cause the taxes to increase. And the democrats don't want to cut spending to pay for it.





What spending was cut to pay for the Bush tax cuts?
If you do not have an answer, this response right here turns into the box of crap that it is a la "The Gate II."



posted on Dec, 19 2011 @ 08:32 AM
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Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by narwahl
reply to post by beezzer
 


But you don't have to pay for tax cuts! They pay for themselves by spurring economic growth!


Ideally, they do. But in this economic atmosphere?


Wow that is sad.
Turn off the radio and pick up ANY history book.
Ideally they do not. Realistically they do not.
Your party has been pushing that for more than 30 years. I dare you to show me where it worked once, EVER.



posted on Dec, 19 2011 @ 08:33 AM
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Originally posted by Rockdisjoint
Not all Republicans are against the pay roll tax cuts.


Well I would have to say your list of Republicans not against the cuts is underwhelming.



posted on Dec, 19 2011 @ 08:35 AM
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Originally posted by vor78
reply to post by Algernonsmouse
 


Republicans aren't trying to raise your payroll taxes. They're opposed to the Democrats' proposed offset of raising taxes on higher income earners. Its a standard Democrat political maneuver. They take a popular piece of legislation and tack on something extra that they know the GOP will be forced to reject, and then claim the GOP opposes the original piece of legislation as well.


Bull. How were the Bush tax cuts paid for? I expect you to provide facts with sources.


Meanwhile, the GOP just passed their own bill through the House that would maintain the current payroll tax cuts. Of course, they've also taken a page from the Dems playbook and loaded it with measures that they can't support, either.


That is called a poison pill and if you do not know that that is a common tactic used to fight something then you need to get on the ball.


At the end of the day, the important thing is that both parties want to retain the payroll tax cut. They *will* reach a deal...but not before each side plays their fair share of political games with it. Don''t fall for it.


No, both sides do not want to retain the tax cut. The Republicans are fighting it every step of the way.



posted on Dec, 19 2011 @ 08:36 AM
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Originally posted by narwahl
Of course firing government employes to pay for it seems redundant to me.
A lot of people will quit their jobs anyway, facing this suddenly increased tax burden, right?




uh what?
Why would you quit your job?



posted on Dec, 19 2011 @ 08:37 AM
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John McCain’s secret war. Sounds loud enough but be sure if the Senate pass senators’ Levin and McCain bill nothing good will the initiative actually bring. Here is the bill itself: (www.armed-services.senate.gov...). As you can see the text is in the public domain - the Republicans are not making secret of it at all. There’re lots of letters, but particularly please look though the Subtitle D – "Detainee Matters", Sec 1031-1037. Hope you like it as I do... Well, for instance, are you ready to face soldiers who’ll be able to arrest you without any legal investigation or trial... just they ‘don’t liked you’?? Is it to become a form of our living here?? Okya, what next? May be McCain is going to allow army to shoot peacefully rioting labor unions?? Old hawk is not half the man he used to be.



posted on Dec, 19 2011 @ 08:38 AM
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Originally posted by Algernonsmouse
It seems clear to me that they fight for tax cuts for only the rich and want the rest of us to pay more of our income in taxes. I cannot see any other way to read this.


Thread solved.

Do we need to discuss this any further?

It doesn't matter whether you vote for a Republican or Democrat, the people of the USA will face incredible austerity cuts. You think things are bad now? Just wait until the election is over and they can act without fearing they'll be out of a job.



posted on Dec, 19 2011 @ 08:40 AM
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Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by narwahl
Of course firing government employes to pay for it seems redundant to me.
A lot of people will quit their jobs anyway, facing this suddenly increased tax burden, right?


So this thread stopped being about blaming republicans and instead now turns to the value of tax cuts?

I guess tax cuts are valuable when you can use it to blame another party.

But when the democrats are responsible for raising taxes, then it becomes a good thing?

This thread reeks of hypocracy.


It does?
Because one poster says something off topic of what I, the creator of the thread wrote, the thread is hypocritical?

Oh lord that is weak.
Dude, you cannot blame the thread for what other people come here and post in it.



posted on Dec, 19 2011 @ 08:50 AM
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Originally posted by jjkenobi
The ignorance in these threads never fails to astound me. Yes, the tax cuts only lower taxes for people who are making money and paying taxes. There is no such thing as a tax cut for the bottom 50%. The bottom 50% account for 3% of all income tax. Any tax cut is automatically pretty much only going to apply to the top 50%. People like me, the "Middle Class". I'm one of the millions of Americans paying federal taxes to pay for government salaries, federal programs, and entitlements. So when federal taxes go up, which they are scheduled to do Jan 1st, it means I will have to redo the budget for my family of 4 and something will have to be cut.

I don't want anyone's taxes to go up, be it the top 50% or the top 1%. The govt is so corrupt and wasteful why give them more???


You failed to point out the ignorance specifically found in this thread.
I think it might help clarify.



posted on Dec, 19 2011 @ 08:55 AM
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Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Indigo5
 

Harry Reid is the leader of the senate.

It has a majority of democrats.

I haven't seen this much contortion since the last Jackie Chan flick!


Harry Reid is the GOP leader as stated.

It has the vulnerability of being blocked by the minority party at every turn.
I have yet to see you acknowledge the insane amount of filibuster since Obama took office.

I have not seen this much blind allegiance since the last time I read a post from your or Thirdeyeofhorus.

I can do that too and better.



posted on Dec, 19 2011 @ 10:43 PM
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Class warfare


Thats so great. When all else fails, whip out the "go to term"

I could have sworn I read the other day someone saying to the effect of "I wish I could defend Supply Side economics, but I can't"


This thread need not even exist. The situation clearly speaks for itself. Selfish selfish selfish. Only the wealthy are worthy of their income.

And they're the one's crying class warfare? I just threw up all over myself. Is that keyboard warfare? What's with the GOP declaring war on everything anyway? Wars on xmas that dont exist. Wars on emotions like terror that dont really exist, and wars on classes that don't exist????



posted on Dec, 19 2011 @ 10:55 PM
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Originally posted by spinalremain
Class warfare


Thats so great. When all else fails, whip out the "go to term"

I could have sworn I read the other day someone saying to the effect of "I wish I could defend Supply Side economics, but I can't"



Keep it in context! I stated that I am not an economist, so I'm unable to defend it. I know it works, but my expertise lies elsewhere.



This thread need not even exist. The situation clearly speaks for itself. Selfish selfish selfish. Only the wealthy are worthy of their income.

And they're the one's crying class warfare? I just threw up all over myself. Is that keyboard warfare? What's with the GOP declaring war on everything anyway? Wars on xmas that dont exist. Wars on emotions like terror that dont really exist, and wars on classes that don't exist????


When you have an ideology that wants to take from the successful and giive it to others, then yes. It is wealth redistribution and class warfare is used to justify the theft.



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 07:06 AM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


just what is "successful" in your opinion???

can a cashier be "successful" at just being a cashier??
can a machinist be "successful"?
what about the nice waitress that serves you family the meal with a smile and goes out of their way to make sure you have a pleasing dining experience?

do you consider corzine as "successful"???
was Jon Edwards??
What about Delay??

I would venture to say that there are some waitresses out there that have been far more successful that many of those who you are seeing as "successful" simply because they have managed to accumulate a huge amount of money!! I mean, they do their job well, they haven't blown their marriages to hades by wanting more women than just the one they had, and they haven't managed to drive our economy off a cliff!!

so, why is it that this little successful screenprinter is not only having her taxes used to pay that very successful waitress so that she can support her family because society and the economy don't see her "successful" enough to deserve a decent wage, but she also has her money taken from her to clean up the mess that the corzines, the edwards, and the delays have created???

and by the way, this successful screen printer and her husband makes less money than the mean, so as far as income goes, she is in the lower 50%!! AND SHE PAYS TAXES!! even had to add a little more taken out just to avoid a big tax bill in april!!
you give that waitress a little extra money and she will go out and buy food with it, or pay the rent, or maybe buy some decent clothes for her kids!! give it to people like corzine and they will use it to gamble on wall street, making bets on weather or not the little waitress will be able to pay her bills next month!!



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 10:57 PM
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Originally posted by dawnstar
reply to post by beezzer
 


just what is "successful" in your opinion???



Who cares? Really, who cares? Those that have more are being told that they (the government) wants more of what the successful have.

We're playing with definitions while the governmnt is taking. They use every excuse in the book to justify why they are taking our money, they use definitions, classifications, terms tha further divide us as a nation.

The Titanic is sinking and we on ATS are arguing about whether we hit an ice floe or an ice berg.



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 11:45 PM
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OK it's obvious almost nobody in this thread understands how utterly screwed this countries finances are.

Here are the basics. We are spending 3.7 trillion a year, but are only taking in roughly 2.1 Trillion in taxes. All of that 2.1 trillion is needed just to pay for Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Welfare, and Unemployment and the interest on the national debt.

There is no money left over for ANY other government spending, meaning nothing for the military, nothing for any of the the other government departments or employees. If you think military spending will be cut to zero and the government will downsize itself well you are beyond naive. That leaves one option to balance the budget, major cuts to entitlements, and tax increases.

Medical costs have gone up on average 9% every year for the last 30 years and the population is rapidly aging, so not only are costs going up the number of people paying in is decreasing and the number of people taking out is increasing. But the worst part is the major banks are still all going to fail - and that is going to immediately remove the governments ability to borrow anything, destroy the stock market, and cause huge deflation or inflation depending on how they decide to handle it.

This budget problem is HUGE and still our politicians are doing NOTHING about it.

Now before anyone says we should just tax the rich - UM NO that will not work. We could tax the top 1% every dime they have and only pay for one year of the deficit, and the next year they will have nothing left to tax earnings from. The Bush tax cut being rescinded is 100 billion a year - 7% of the deficit now, and a lot less in 10 years due to our growing expenses.

So here is the truth - Social Security, medicare, medicaid and welfare are going to be cut massively, at least 30% and nothing is going to stop that from happening short of an extinction event no matter what any politician promises.
You should not count on getting any social security or medical care even 5 years from now, cause it may very well not exist.

If we want to try and fix these problems (it really is obvious at this point nobody does), it requires massive spending cuts, and tax increases on the rich. Yes it also requires that if you want to collect social security than the payroll tax - which is what actually pays for social security and never should have been cut - has to be returned to the old rate, which was just barely enough to pay for it. You can't have it both ways if you want to collect social security the money has to be paid in.

Now if your argument is nobody is going to try and save this economy because the situation will require telling truths the public will not accept you are probably correct. If that is your basis for not wanting the payroll tax increased, you simply want to live it up till the economy blows up OK. If however you are arguing against it on the principle of no new taxes for any reason than well I would like to agree with you, but we are in way to bad of shape for that.

Arguing about this piddly little payroll tax is beyond meaningless if you understand how dire our economic situation is. It really is like rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic as it goes down.



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 07:41 AM
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reply to post by proximo
 


but it's a nice distraction from the cold hard facts of life!!!

of which, you made a really great attempt at assessing.
I got a feeling the euro is gonna fall a little after the first, the us economy shortly after that, most of the savings the people have accumulated (even those "rich people"], will be wiped out... and well, most of the businesses gone..
and of course then we will have another little diversion to the cold hard truth to keep us occupied, called WW3....
which will have the effect of resetting everything, settling the debts with land redistribution (also known as occupation)...

but, well, I don't think it's the gov't social programs that has sent us into a downward spiral as much as it is certain industries, namely real estate and the financials totally screwing up the economy that has....
and in the end, well, got to tell ya, if you want the workers of this nation working, they are gonna have to be fed, they are gonna have to be sheltered, and they are gonna have to be treated for illness and injury....their basic needs will have to be met one way or another. either through the gov't programs, or higher wages, or reducing the cost of living.....
now, as far as which one is more favorable to the employers of the nation, well, it seems like only one of those avenues is beneficial to the business community...namely that of gov't taking it on and providing assistance to the masses who are failing to make ends meet.
over 50% of the people visiting the doctor's offices in my area are relying on those gov't programs...
take away those programs, well, which would the healthcare industry find more appealing?? lowering the costs to help some of that 50% gain access? or accepting that those 50% are now not accessable and therefore, they don't need as many doctors and nurses, medical clinics, and whatnot??
even when talking about social security, have you thought of the ramifications of taking that away?? their iras are gonna be swiped just like the money in mf global just disappeared from their accounts and no one knows where it went... the homes that they spent decades in investing in, well, the real estate scam has done wiped out most of the equity, the even if they hid their small fortunes under the mattress in cash, well, their cash will buy less and less...
they will have two choices....depend on their kids to support them or continue on working till they drop...and well,...it seems to be the younger generation that is complaining the most about social security.....while admitting that many of those one social security is recieving more than they put in.....turn that around please.....
because it means that your parents care will be costing you more than your would have been paying in social security if the burden was thrown on your shoulders!!! and well ya, you could refuse to do the proper thing, but then you be competing with the seniors for jobs...and many of these seniors hold volunteer positions in areas of gov't, schools, medical institutions, ect.....they have to work now, they have to be paid for that work, and well, one way or another, you will end up paying them anyways....
the idea that you can get out of this situation by taking away from those that are only recieving their basic necessities in life is a joke, since even if you take it away, you will end up paying in out in another avenue...it's money that has to be spent, unless of course, you want the people out begging in the streets, living in cardboard boxes, looting and stealing, and all that..or are content in knowing that these people will die, or maybe find ending their lives prematurely acceptable.
and well, there has always been unemployment in this country, a portion of the population that wasn't working, economists will tell you that it is necessary for a healthy economy since if the unemployment rate gets too low, the wages begin to rise since the employers have to work harder at bringing the workers to them.
we have less and less jobs, no savings, homes that are next to worthless, wages that don't meet the cost of living, and alot of seniors that are at the moment content on not being in the workforce because of social security....
ya drop the social programs, and well, send all those seniors into the workforce, and see what you have!!!
they housing bust was a big scam, which cost more money than we can ever repay!!! and the only way we are gonna even have a slim chance of getting out of the mess is if they go after those who raked in the fortunes from the scam...

since that ain't gonna happen, well, let's just bicker about the bush tax cuts and the small pittance of the payroll tax cut....sometimes a nice distraction is necessary for life!!!



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 07:51 AM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


but maybe the gov't's actions is only a small part of what is the problem....
maybe if society would begin so see some value in those store clerks and waitresses, ect ya know at least enough value to confirm that they have just as much right to survive as those wall street hotshots and the politicians in the gov't, well, half of that money that is circulating through the social service system wouldn't have to be circulation!!!
maybe the problem isn't the gov't at all....maybe it's the people.....the society!
ya know the ones who will go the extra ten miles to save themselves a little money off their tax bill, have more babies for more money, while shhhh!! don't tell anyone, but they are living with some guy making $30, 000 a year on top of it....or doctors who are running up needless medical expenses, just for more money, and the million and one more ways people manage to lie, cheat, whatever, to get more!!!
we have lied and cheated ourselves into this positon!!! we've been running a system that reallly hasn't worked for decades. completely oblivious is seems to the fact that is wasn't working because of the lies and the cheating..... we have been so good at lying and cheating, we no longer see the truth.. and without the truth, there will never be a solution!



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 08:09 AM
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Originally posted by proximo

Arguing about this piddly little payroll tax is beyond meaningless if you understand how dire our economic situation is. It really is like rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic as it goes down.



It's not meaningless when you work all day on your feet, come home with a good burn on your arm then look at your paycheck to see how much got taken from you today.

It's only meaningless cause I'm not some rich twit. If I was rich all of you would be here screaming for me to get another penny.



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 08:16 AM
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Originally posted by Algernonsmouse

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Indigo5
 

Harry Reid is the leader of the senate.

It has a majority of democrats.

I haven't seen this much contortion since the last Jackie Chan flick!


Harry Reid is the GOP leader as stated.

It has the vulnerability of being blocked by the minority party at every turn.
I have yet to see you acknowledge the insane amount of filibuster since Obama took office.

I have not seen this much blind allegiance since the last time I read a post from your or Thirdeyeofhorus.

I can do that too and better.


The Dems and the Republicans are to blame. LOOK at their approval rating ! BIPARTISAN DISAPPROVAL! The thread has no merit,based on the title alone.




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