EU Autocrates Refuse to Speak English and Threaten to Remove the UK's EU Rebate

reply to post by EvanB


Here here, lets make relations with people that can actually stand us.

Originally posted by Merigold

Britain is big enough to stand on its own two feet and we have something to say to you, good riddence

Really?

If Europe didn't buy a majority of our goods, we'd be screwed.

We need Europe.

Indeed, even our government recognizes that we need Europe as much as Europe needs us. I have to admit that I am torn on this whole issue.
I have long been an advocate of smaller government and smaller communities, and for that reason alone I think the € was a terrible idea, and that governance over Europe by a larger group of people was insanity.
However, now that we are in this position, it would harm us in countless ways if our partnerships are damaged with Europe as a whole.

We export to Europe, and we have the financial hub of Europe in London. All it would take is a little tweaking of agreements and obligations to damage the UK financially. While Cameron might think he's saved us from having to pay a transaction tax, his refusal to engage on this could mean that states and the EU takes action by itself to damage London and trade.

Aside from the financial, we have greater military ties with France than at almost any other point in history. We have made agreements to support each other and share resources in an effort cut military costs. And we have done this just as the world becomes increasingly unstable. And then to add to that insecurity we segregate ourselves from much of Europe too.

Anyone here who watches historical documentaries and sees all the little swipes and statements made in the lead up to ww2 will know what I mean when I say that we should be watching what happens very closely and read between the lines. This is a period of allegiance-building, and currently the UK is not in the room to be able to make friends and influence people.

We are all expecting the Euro to collapse. How many European nations will change allegiances in exchange for security?

Originally posted by flexy123
By the way i am German, living in Spain tho.

Edit: Sovereignty

www.peoplespledge.org...
epetitions.direct.gov.uk...

Have at it...

reply to post by Suspiria

Previously done

First of all the EU has been around as an experiment since the 90s, greedy technocrats thought that having nations in debt was a great way to generation profits, sadly the experiment is failing, anybody has not noticed the EU nations are worst now that they were before joining the so call "union for prosperity" what they got now is a whole bunch of nations about to default in the debt they own to those that are controlling them

So actually why will the UK or any other nation will want to give away their resources to a failed experiment, that is bound to disintegrate due to the lack of monetary support.

The debt of the countries in distress is like the debt in the US it will never be repaid and eventually will collapse on its own weight, just a matter or time.

Well now maybe the UK will not be on its own.

Reports coming in from news channels, Hungary and the Czech Republic, looks like they are now against the new changes to the treaty also.

Neither Hungary nor the Czech Republic uses the euro, and tax harmonisation plans were not explicitly discussed as part of the changes at the summit.

Also other countries such as Finland, Sweden, Ireland and Denmark are not happy either to what they have signed up to:

Whether you look across at Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Ireland - a number of countries' representatives have gone back to their parliaments and have examined what's in front of them and have said they're not 100% pleased with what they've signed up to in some cases."

So was the UK right in using it's veto and now maybe more countries will follow.

Sky News

I for one, Think the UK is right to have used its veto. No longer should the UK be relied upon to bail out those countries who have got them own selfs into debt.

reply to post by Laurauk


It seems the hissy fit across the channel is growing louder and almost Monty Python'esk as "your mother smells" type comments flow across the channel..

Something must be spooking them to behave this way... It's not often Governor of a Central Bank, Members of the ECB, Prime Ministers and Ministers jump up and down stamping their feet while demanding someone else be thrown under the bus.. So much for the "entente cordial" eh, more "entente vitriol" to me.

But still perhaps that underlines Cameron making the right choice for Britain (for the wrong reasons, but still the right choice)

reply to post by thoughtsfull


Well lets take Maddog Sarkozy for a moment. He is in fear his country have been threatened with downgrading of their credit rating. Plus on top of that he needs to look tough since he might not be re-elected in the Comming French Presidential Elections.

But since the UK are still being allowed into discussion, but only on an observer role seems to me the EU are trying to play with us. Wave a carrot in front of our faces then take it away at the last moment

I really think the UK should have shunned these discussions to show the EU that the UK is not one bit bothered.

reply to post by Laurauk


I can't help but feel they are really rattled to resort to such playground games, nor can I help but feel any further downgrades within the Eurozone will undermine what little foundations this treaty has.

I guess there may be many reasons why we have been invited to the discussions, not least perhaps by those nations who still consider us their ally.. But I would personally prefer we follow the course you laid out and shunned them full stop.

reply to post by thoughtsfull


Well since we are being allowed at the Discussions, the UK are sending Legal Observers to the discussions to make sure none of the EU Institutions are used in the Discussions, which would go against the EU Single Market Treaty.

As was discussed earlier on. With regards to the French the British are just being laid back with the sniping from them. But one does wonder how long it will be before the UK retaliates. And tells the French to shut their pie holes.

reply to post by Laurauk


It isn't the French or Germans, etc though - it is the political elite within those countries. Le Monde (or Le Figaro - can't remember which) had an editorial yesterday saying Britain was correct with it's position and listing why.

Anyhow, the whole lot have been downgraded already today (including Barclays).

reply to post by Flavian


Your not telling me something I do not already know. It does not help how ever, when you have an Idiot of a president of a Country, who thinks his country is better than the UK.

France has way far more problems than we do in the UK. Maybe he needs to look in his own backyard before he points fingers at the UK.

Well, well, well. It seems the european tables are turning. Not only did many of the European countries parliments reject the proposals, Merkel has now come out and said that she will resist changes proposed by Sarkozy. It appears that the EU was so used to the UK playing by the rules that it had forgotten how important the UK economy is to the Eurozone. France along with many others is about to have its credit rating downgraded, meaning borrowing will sharply increase in cost for them. The UK still has its rating at stable AAA+ which is better than the US and Germany thanks to the pre emptative austerity measures that our government has been villified for by many of its own people. It is a hard job that the co-allition is doing but the approval by the IMF, Credit ratings agencies and by foreign investors shows that the UK has indeed choosen the right path.

The government should be commended for their efforts so far, unfortunately for them many of the British public are to self involved to understand that they have had to have things taken off them to save our countrry, so the government will not be thanked at the polls. Probably back to spend spend spend labour that got us in this mess in the first place.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

reply to post by michael1983l


I actually do not know wither to believe anything the daily mail puts in its papers. Merkel seemed to be at the heart of all this fiasco in the first place. She and that French Idiotic President agreed to gang up on the UK in the first place.

reply to post by Laurauk


Yes I agree I believe they did. However like I have mentioned, the UK normally is compliant and plays by the rules and the Eurocrates thought that we would just agree due to this. They have had an almighty shock when Cameron has told them to stick it but they are beginning to realise which side their bread is buttered. The EU without the UK or Germany for that matter is worthless and Merkel realises that. She knows that the British public are finally fed up with Europe and are ready to ditch it given a chance of a referendum. Merkel realises that given this situation it would be suicide for europe and has appeared to start making concessions to stop it happening. This is where the UK should force through a few favourable demands whilst we have the power card.

reply to post by michael1983l


Now we know why the French were sniping at the UK. The Banks for one withdrawing money from french banks. £20 billion is not a drop in the ocean either. Now Clegg smacking the French Pm down.

Told you dont back the UK into a corner we will come out fighting.

Funny how the PM of the UK will not even talk to Sarkosy never mind acknowledge him.

Could the rhetoric between France and UK increase in 2012?

reply to post by Laurauk


Well I hope this is just a tempoary period of hard feelings as there is no getting away from the fact that we are aircraft carrierless until 2020 and we are relying on the French to share theirs. That is a decision I could not swallow however I realise that even the cuts they have done so far haven't been enough so what other options did we have.

reply to post by michael1983l


Aircraft carrier you mean, we will only have one, the other is being mothballed.

I knew this would happen anyways, as soon as the coalition Government came into office, All 3 political parties have contempt when it comes to the UK armed forces.

Ugh Do we really need to share with the French>?

reply to post by Laurauk


Unfortunately until 2020 yes. I am an ex serviceman and I feel for the 3 services because it is an easy cut for the government. It is the mentality of the forces that works against them in that they will just get on with it and make the best of what they have. From a political point of view also it is always easier to cut a defence budget than it is an education or NHS budget. Although one thing that I learned whilst serving is that there is an almighty amount of wastage when it comes to procurement and we must remember that we are still around the 5th best funded force in the world.