Saudi woman beheaded for blasphemy\sorcery VS. Anger Over School Bus Driver saying Santa isn't rea

Honestly...

GRANTED: the woman was beheaded mercilessly... and the School Bus Driver ..well.. scolded..

But the fact that people are up in arms about someone saying something about it in the first place...

How is THIS - www.cnn.com...#/video/world /2011/12/13/dnt-jamjoom-saudi-woman-beheaded.cnn

Any different than THIS - www.cnn.com...#/video/us/2011/12/1 3/dnt-bus-driver-disses-santa.wfsb

imaginary BS.. superstitious malarkey being the basis of if you live or die or if you get fired or not..

wait.. telling children the TRUTH about a LIE about a fat man in red clothing is WRONG?
k that's messed up.

and one can't help but question whether the Saudi Royal Monarchy thinks there's any actual REALITY to sorcery.. if someone's being killed for 'practicing' it!

say hypothetically.. that someone develops supernatural powers like Muhammed... the return of the messiah.. he's gonna be beheaded too!

and the same people that are angry about the school bus driver saying Christ wasn't born on x-mas are the same people angry that he says Santa doesn't exist... well MAKE UP YOUR MINDS Christians!... which Idol do you claim as being the one you defend?!!

edit: k well these video links don't work - you'll have to google them.

reply to post by prevenge


Is this satire?

If not, the anger was because a stranger took it upon themselves to usurp the role of the childs real parents.

In the other case it was a beheading due to controlled speech.

You are comparing a nuclear bomb to a firecracker and trying to equate them.

Do you think it's appropriate for strangers to choose to override the wishes of a child's parents? If so, what gives them that right? Would it be OK if did so with your children?

This seems to me to be a poorly thought out attack on Christians in general.

Are you aware that Santa has nothing to do with Christianity and is part of the secular holiday? Apparently not?

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by prevenge

 

Is this satire?

If not, the anger was because a stranger took it upon themselves to usurp the role of the childs real parents.

In the other case it was a beheading due to controlled speech.

You are comparing a nuclear bomb to a firecracker and trying to equate them.

Do you think it's appropriate for strangers to choose to override the wishes of a child's parents? If so, what gives them that right? Would it be OK if did so with your children?

This seems to me to be a poorly thought out attack on Christians in general.

Are you aware that Santa has nothing to do with Christianity and is part of the secular holiday? Apparently not?

Well I am surprised that you cannot observe the parallels I'm trying to draw here.
This is ATS and I'd have thought that someone might use an iota of imagination and extrapolate on the concept in civil discourse, but alas, I will do it for you...

Ahem..

In the Saudi Case, we have a woman punished by her peers (in this case the state) for blasphemy (in this case the certain type of blasphemy is categorized as sorcery\witchcraft).

Because of her disagreeing with the existence of, (or going against the rules set by) a certain imaginary personage that her peers are convinced exist without any scientific evidence to back it up, she is gruesomely put to death.

Back home, we have (IMO) a very SIMILAR case in which a School Bus Driver is speaking his mind against the existence of two imaginary personages, which his peers lie to their children about the existence of. School boards rattled, parents in an uproar etc.. bring out the torches and pitchforks .. granted he is not being killed or beheaded.. but they are both in a way speaking out against imaginary idols and suffer for it.. one just gets it worse...

If I lied to my own child about his\her parents being alive.. then they come to find that they were dead.. or lie to them that they were dead and they come to find they were alive.. that would be psychological abuse.
If I lied to them about a horrible creature that would devour them if they misbehaved, and then they found that this creature did not exist, then that would be a form of psychological abuse... and it would erode trust between my child and I.
If I lied to my child about an imaginary person that would boil the child in caves of fire if they broke rules that this imaginary person set, then I would consider that psychological emotional abuse.

If someone thinks that it is a parents right or not to psychologically abuse a child, then I think they are by far, in the wrong and are victim to a form of mental illness.

Women have no rights in Saudi Arabia.

They aren't America. They struggle to survive in that barren desert like you wouldn't believe.

Give it time and we'll be back to chopping off heads and hanging people. Our current civilization won't last much longer.

OP, I can see what you are saying. You are making the point that, in both cases, superstitious untruths are being defended and upheld.

That doesn't mean these are similar cases. The bus driver was not beheaded. "Sorcery" is something commonly thought to be practiced by women and it's a very sexist thing to be beheaded for, it is actually a gender issue, not just a "superstitious belief" issue.

There are a couple parallels but the Saudi case is, if this is even allowable to say, a much worse punishment, and a much worse reason for punishing. First, as I said, sorcery is commonly associated with women (in many cultures) and so this was really a gendered issue in the first place that should never have been an issue because sorcery itself isn't real and she could not have been actually practicing it.... Second, the bus driver, regardless of his beliefs on whether something is true or not, has no business preaching to children. Just because I believe in Jesus doesn't give me the right to be going and telling other kids about it, so no one gets the right to tell kids NOT to believe in something either. Sure, the bus driver had his own opinions about the situation, but those are just what they are - OPINIONS. The bus driver was trying to force his own beliefs about the world onto children. The Saudi woman, on the other hand, was not practicing witchcraft, because witchcraft doesn't exist.

In short: The Saudi woman received the ultimate punishment for no crime. The bus driver got a slap on the wrist for forcing his beliefs upon impressionable children. The world sucks...

A Saudi woman was beheaded!? We sit quietly by?

World! Pay attention - are we going to let people be beheaded by lunatic governments?

NO!!

Come on, warriors of the world - save the women of islam - and do it NOW!!

Originally posted by prevenge
and one can't help but question whether the Saudi Royal Monarchy thinks there's any actual REALITY to sorcery.. if someone's being killed for 'practicing' it!

They know full well it's real, and they practice it themselves just as our western leaders do.

The beheading is about deterring others from seeking this knowledge.

As for the bus driver saying Santa isn't real - he should be given a medal for honesty.

Originally posted by catwhoknowsplusone
A Saudi woman was beheaded!? We sit quietly by?

World! Pay attention - are we going to let people be beheaded by lunatic governments?

NO!!

Come on, warriors of the world - save the women of islam - and do it NOW!!

Star for you. Total agreement!

reply to post by catwhoknowsplusone


I am not in disagreement with you, but speaking from an American point of view it is a catch 22 situation. When we do nothing about this we are uncaring, and insensitive to the plight of the women of Islam. On the other hand if we go into that country to fight for the rights of these women then we are warmongers. I say it's high time that we take care of our own problems and leave the entire ME to deal with their own issues.

As for the topic of the post I would disagree with legally punishing people in order to uphold imaginary beliefs, but that was not what happened with the bus driver. He was not criminally prosecuted, but rather reprimanded for overstepping his boundaries, and I am in full agreement with that.

I am an atheist, and if I found out that a bus driver or anyone else was trying to fill my daughters head with religious dogma, and superstitious beliefs I would be outraged, and would expect that drivers actions be addressed by his superiors. I believe that works both ways, and I would never think of trying to tell a child that what his parents taught him/her in regards to religious beliefs were wrong because it is simply not my place no matter how much I may personally disagree with their beliefs.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
You are comparing a nuclear bomb to a firecracker and trying to equate them.

Fully agree with this statement. The bus driver (probably innocently) overstepped and ventured into something that is for parents. So the bus driver was talked to. The poor innocent muslim woman was MURDERED by a mysoginistic backwards religion/society. Night and day difference.