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Legal Prostitution?

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posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 08:16 AM
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How dare you people tell others it should be the state's decision or federal governments decision to legalize this sort of thing or not.

Where do you get off trying to red tape other people's behaviour. Your not them, you don't understand the reasons for it, you don't understand his home life, his work life, the need to come in contact with another human being on a more intimate level.. Sure it's not the ethical/moral way to go about it in society's eyes, but who are you to judge? Who are you to tell people how they can live their lives, when you know absolutely nothing about it...

Even if you were to legalize it, I doubt these escorts/call girls would even claim their job to the government... Why would they?
So they get their money taken away through income tax? Or so they can get babysat and told what to do??

This is going on in the states my friends there is nothing you can do about it, it will not stop, it will continue, and even if you wanted it legalized, you wouldn't get them to come forward, why allow the government to steal from your own pocket and then have them tell you what to do with your body when it comes time to get tested???




posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 08:42 AM
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Originally posted by TrueLies

How dare you people tell others it should be the state's decision or federal governments decision to legalize this sort of thing or not.



Um, who makes state and federal laws? Citizens do through their elected reps.



posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 08:51 AM
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Originally posted by taibunsuu
Who makes state and federal laws? Citizens do through their elected reps.


Wouldn't that be nice if it was 100% true... Wake up sleepy head, you were just having a dream.

[edit on 14-9-2004 by TrueLies]



posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 11:53 AM
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Originally posted by CazMedia
What about the emotional or social costs?
How safe are you if jealousy is bred from this behaivior?
How safe is your family when mom leaves daddy because he did something LEGAL?

While physically this would increase safety...so far not alot has been given to the social impacts that legal whoring could have.

Why marry at all if you can just buy companionship?

Howsatisfied or how much self esteem is generated if you can only score with money? wouldnt that feel hollow if you couldnt get laid unless you had cash?

How would you feel if you were the whore and noone ever gave you emotional support you need, and just used you and tossed you aside?

what about the poor, the ones that cant afford to buy this intimacy? wouldnt they feel likeless than an equal being if they couldnt satisfy their sexual urges like people that could pay?

Isnt this activity moving backwards twords treating people like property?

Again i say go ahead and de-criminalize this activity, but be prepared for the concequences. you know, the ones we either havnt forseen or the ones we want to conveniantly overlook so we can get our jollies.


Your talking like this dosnt happen everyday, some john is out there picking up a prostitute, getting an std and bringing it home to his wife, she then finds out about it on her next visit to the doctor comes to the logical conclusion that her hubbys screwing around and bye bye daddy. Women are out there being tossed aside everyday,being treated like property, their just doing it on the streets instead of in a regulated safe enviroment. Emotional support, I mentioned that in my earlier post in the form of counselers, as well as the option of job training to enable them to get off the streets. As for the poor people who can't afford prostitutes? It dosnt mean that they can't have sex, it just means they have to be personable enough to get into a relationship. And if you think that all that is involved in a relationship is sexual satisfaction then in this day and age, when you can go to a club and find a partner for the evening for free, almost no one would get married anymore. Marriage is about ( in most cases) mutual love, respect, and the wish to share your lives with each other, not just your bodies. It would not be moving backwards to treating people like property because by leagalizing it , it would be out in the open and we could therefor help the women/men wanting to get out of prostitution instead of pretending that they dont exist.



posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 12:29 PM
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Hmm, if I had the power CazMedia would not be in here, for one can not debate with a rock for the rock will always be a rock and one can't change that, even if they are correct and the rock is wrong. But can't, so....

Yes Caz, when prostitution becomes legal(well, if) men will divorce their wives, every single man in America will leave their wife and just have all the sex they want with prostitutes. Yes Caz, if prostitution is legalized, the world will end, just like when you say would happen if gays got equal rights.

Anyways, prostitution is already happeneing, this is just a way to make it safer. In Nevada, they have legal WhoreHouses. How many of those women are raped, beaten by their pimp, hooked on drugs? Oh wait, they aren't raped for they have protection in the WhoreHouse. No pimp to beat them for they have no pimp. And drug use? Well, don't know if they test for drugs, but if they do, then no drug use.

And to LadyV, I have been to strip clubs, and never seen the women grabbed, things thrown at them, guys spitting on them, so forth. Only time a guy did reach out and touch one two big hefty guys came over and dragged him out of the place. Besides, seen some of the tips they make? Some of the good ones can make an easy grand a night at places like Diamonds or Platinum.(local strip clubs)

But this is about prostitution, not strippers, or how the world will end if sex is made legal.(prostitution, gay, woman on top, you know, evil sex, right Caz?)



posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 01:36 PM
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Look at all these generalizations... wow....

Did it ever occur to some of you that these prostitutes want to be prostitutes?

did it ever occur to you that they make lot's of money $200/hr + more depending on which state your in??

Did it ever occur to you that being grabbed or beaten or tossed out the car door rarely happens??

These men treat those women with respect... You get the odd ball but it's not as bad as you guys think it is.

I guess generalizing is all you can do since obviously most of you know nothing about the subject...If you haven't experienced the world of prostitution, don't knock it. It's not as bad as you think..

PS: Those women signed up for the job, just like military men sign up for duty... It's called personal responsibility, they aren't victims...



posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 02:36 PM
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Originally posted by James the Lesser
Hmm, if I had the power CazMedia would not be in here, for one can not debate with a rock for the rock will always be a rock and one can't change that, even if they are correct and the rock is wrong. But can't, so....


I'm against censorship -- especially on the Internet, and in open communication forums like this -- so I have to disagree there. Even if CazMedia is unflinching in his views, let him speak his peace. Just do what I do; either answer the post with a rebuttal, or move on to the next post.
(My apologizes CazMedia for the "he" and "him" if you're a lady.
)


Originally posted by TrueLies
PS: Those women signed up for the job, just like military men sign up for duty... It's called personal responsibility, they aren't victims...


This is true. Is the prostitute a victim when she voluntarily sought out this line of work? Is her client a criminal because he paid for her services?


[edit on 9/14/2004 by ThunderCloud]



posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 02:40 PM
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ThunderCloud, how to explain. Me and 27jd had a problem with Caz. He made a post so ridiculous and wrong we just had fun proving he was wrong. But then he kept up with the same sewage and we were sucked in. It was addicting! Couldn't stop. Prove him wrong, prove him wrong, we did, about 3 pages ago, he just says the same thing! Nooooooo...... slowly sucked in until there is no escape.

Anyways, I am also anti-censorship, but Caz, well, sucking noise is quiet, for now.



posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 06:08 PM
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Originally posted by TrueLies

Originally posted by taibunsuu
Who makes state and federal laws? Citizens do through their elected reps.


Wouldn't that be nice if it was 100% true... Wake up sleepy head, you were just having a dream.

[edit on 14-9-2004 by TrueLies]


Then please enlighten me on how state and federal government works, because I guess I must have slept through all my classes and read disinformation.



posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 09:28 PM
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I debated for a long time ( I guess you could say I Mass-debated!)
whether to jump in this, or not.

Well, I'm in.

And I say that we are ALL whores..
We sell our brains, or hands, or feet, or any other body part, For money, depending on our type of job.

Prostitution (controlled)is legal here.
However, Streetwalking (uncontrolled) is illegal.

The Brothels are controlled, and monitored by the state. This makes it safer for the Women, and the men. STD testing is the norm.

A person may not have many alternatives to make a living, due to unforseen circumstances in life..Sometimes it's actually a way out of a downward spiral for these women. They can make money, they have a decent place to live, they are able to EAT. And they aren't on the streets.
It's not the BEST life, but it may be a better one for them.

No matter what though, the worlds oldest profession won't be stopped.
Thats just reality



posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 09:32 PM
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Actually it can be stopped, just depends on how stiff the punishment is space guy.



posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 09:40 PM
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Tachyon,

Stiff punishment...a pun? LOL
You are kidding yourself, if you think it can be stopped.
But I would like to hear a BRIEF idea of how you would do it, if elected.

Theoretical Sub Atomic Particle guy



posted on Sep, 15 2004 @ 01:16 AM
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well, for one, all the money gets donated to the needy that the prostitutes gathered. Plus an additional fee for paying the police in lost fees. Then court costs and mandatory prison without parole.



posted on Sep, 15 2004 @ 01:38 AM
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To all...why am i now seeing the word sex encased in orange fiels everywhere on ATS...even the word relationship is the same??? Weve been on this thread for what a week now, and this is the first time ive seen this...am i the only one?

ThunderCloud,
Thank you for standing up for free speech and and open and honest debate. He was the correct designation, i would not have taken offence if this was in error....

Pancake headed rabbit, you miss the point and harp on a specific, misread example as usual...


Me and 27jd had a problem with Caz.
Yes and it usually precludes you from debating the topic and results in you attacking me instead....This is not the only problem you have..
It seems that you 2 are some of my biggest fans.



we just had fun proving he was wrong.
You proved nothing but that ignorance, close mindedness, and reverse bigotry is alive and well. In fact, you mostly AVOIDED actual contributions to the threads discussion and attcked me instead by using devicive name calling and useless rants. Hmm very smilar to your post 801124 on this thread...no contributions to this debate, only a rant about me...typical and pathetic. I thought personal attacks and stalking members from one thread to another was frowned upon?


Did TrueLies obviously miss read the point here or what?


How dare you people tell others it should be the state's decision or federal governments decision to legalize this sort of thing or not.
Umm, excuse me for pointing out 3 times in my post that the government was and should be BY the people FOR the people, using democracy....How in the hell did you interpret this to be advocating the FEDS or even STATES were/should dictate to the people?
Again Ill ask, why do you fear democracy in acton?

Truelies questions,


Sure it's not the ethical/moral way to go about it in society's eyes, but who are you to judge? Who are you to tell people how they can live their lives, when you know absolutely nothing about it...(an individual's situation)
You seem to understand that a society may say this is unethical/immoral, yet Who are you to decide that a democratic culture doesnt have the right to set cultural values that define what their society is and represents? Why do you feel you can just spit on their decision?
Who are you to decide that the use of democracy should not be utilized by this culture to make these determinations of cultural values? Who are you to decide to take away WE the PEOPLES rights to do this?
For the millionth time, Which form of government would you choose over democracy...Which other governmental form gives as mush consideration for individual citizens as this one does?

Wake up sleepy heads, Your just feeling disenfranchised from the political process. Learn about basic civics and become more politically active and you will be joining in instead of feeling left out. It seems like a fear of being/becomming part of the minority (or the realization that you are) that drives this anti-democratic drivel...you then seem to need some special interst minority group ENTITLEMENT in order to feel included, which is of course devisive as it provides for SOME people that meet criteria, but not others. and THIS is the equallity you constantly preach? LMAO!

TL with many questions,


Look at all these generalizations... wow.... Did it ever occur to some of you that these prostitutes want to be prostitutes?

did it ever occur to you that they make lot's of money $200/hr + more depending on which state your in??

Did it ever occur to you that being grabbed or beaten or tossed out the car door rarely happens??

These men treat those women with respect... You get the odd ball but it's not as bad as you guys think it is.

I guess generalizing is all you can do since obviously most of you know nothing about the subject...If you haven't experienced the world of prostitution, don't knock it. It's not as bad as you think..
Here are many answers...
yes
yes
Hmm, rarely you say? I laugh at your ignorance...sexual assault and victimization occurs NIGHTLY here on the streets of Philly, you just dont HEAR about them all....EVERY night i log at least one if not 2 of these types of crimes...but the media only covers the spectacular ones because there isnt enough time or manpower to cover them ALL.
Why do you think big city police departments have SEPERATE divisions for special victims crimes? because they ARE indeed common, so much so that the regular cops would be overwhelmed trying to cover/prevent them all.

While SOME clients (johns) treat the hooker with respect, that could only mean they want things to go smoothly...isnt it possible that in their heart they in fact think the whore is nothing more than a disposable cum receptical?
so what kind of respect is this really?

So what is your experience with prostitution? Do you have a going rate?
Have you utilized this service..if so how much is the average cost and how often can you cite gaining this experiance?

PS your right, they volunteered for whatever reason, but perhaps the only thing they are victims of is low self esteem, profiteering, or uncontrollable sexual urges.

TL says,


Even if you were to legalize it, I doubt these escorts/call girls would even claim their job to the government... Why would they? So they get their money taken away through income tax? Or so they can get babysat and told what to do??
Hmm, typical liberal way to AVOID the establishment. Avoid paying taxes for legitimate labor/services, and avoid being regulated for EVERYONES safety....and you wonder why you feel OUTSIDE the norms?
You place yourself at odds with society by these exclusionary, go it alone, dare i say anti social tactics.

Before you crusify me FOR AGREEING WITH YOU, but with questions...
AGAIN PEOPLE, I say de-criminalize this activity, but CONSIDER THE CONCEQUENCES of your actions, BEFORE you rush blindly into the red light district.



posted on Sep, 15 2004 @ 09:21 AM
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CazMedia,

I wasn't even addressing that to you, it was to tabinuu and the couple other women that are posting in here...
And it's really none of your business what experience i've had with this subject, I know alot about because i've been right in the pit with the rest of em and I see how they live, I've seen their problems, i've seen how guys treat the ladies, I've seen it all.

And I agree with you completely, but I highly doubt that all of society can come to agreement on this subject if it were to be de-criminalized.
And I know for a fact in Canada you can claim income on escorting, but know that you have to pay your tax, many girls don't do this.
They can write off, hair salon visits, nails, spa treatments, they can write off office supplies, ect ect...
Although it's illegal in Canada to be a prostitue/streetwalker it is NOT illegal to be an escort/call girl.
And even though the government allows you to claim income many don't, because many of these women make over 100,000/yr why would they want to give half of that over to the government??

I don't think it's an anti social viewpoint, I think it's a logical one, who the hell would want to pay half of that to the gov? Many people can't stand parting with their money but will in fear of repercussions.


Just to show what goes on under our noses with this profession:
See here

[edit on 15-9-2004 by TrueLies]



posted on Sep, 15 2004 @ 01:01 PM
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You work for the mainstream media, right? You've been a dirty little hooker for some time!



Originally posted by CazMedia
Pancake headed rabbit, you miss the point and harp on a specific, misread example as usual...


Me and 27jd had a problem with Caz.
Yes and it usually precludes you from debating the topic and results in you attacking me instead....This is not the only problem you have..
It seems that you 2 are some of my biggest fans.


I wouldn't say fans really, it's kinda like when you watch Fear Factor to see people eat bugs, that's what reading your posts is like.



we just had fun proving he was wrong.

You proved nothing but that ignorance, close mindedness, and reverse bigotry is alive and well. In fact, you mostly AVOIDED actual contributions to the threads discussion and attcked me instead by using devicive name calling and useless rants. Hmm very smilar to your post 801124 on this thread...no contributions to this debate, only a rant about me...typical and pathetic. I thought personal attacks and stalking members from one thread to another was frowned upon?


We proved you wrong with an even balance of thoughtful contributions AND devicive name calling. You all but scream for it, with the outrageous things you post. The notion that in a "free" country, the freedom of law abiding citizens can be voted away just because someone else disagrees with their lifestyles or cultures, is completely ridiculous. Where would it stop? If the KKK were to somehow gain a majority vote to reverse the civil rights of blacks, by principle you support that, enough said. I think you intentionally post this garbage to bait people to attack you, so you can cry about it and be Caz the martyr, be careful not to let any tears get in your keyboard. And as for us stalking you, um, this thread was started by James, so it looks like you're the stalker here.

Here, Caz resorts to devicive name calling himself:


So what is your experience with prostitution? Do you have a going rate?
Have you utilized this service..if so how much is the average cost and how often can you cite gaining this experiance?


Caz is hinting that TL is a prostitute through rhetorical questions, because she questioned all of the armchair experts posting their "knowledge" (or lack of) of the underworld and the mindset and motives of prostitutes. But I guess Caz, who claims to have been an embedded reporter in pretty much every topic of discussion here on ATS, has vast knowledge and has likely done undercover reporting in red light districts, godspeed Geraldo. Shouldn't you be on the beach in New Orleans right now, waiting to report live when Ivan makes landfall? It's funny, but even though we agree prostitution should be legal, we always manage to disagree fundamentally. That fact is personally comforting to me.








[edit on 15-9-2004 by 27jd]



posted on Sep, 15 2004 @ 01:42 PM
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Caz says: PS your right, they volunteered for whatever reason, but perhaps the only thing they are victims of is low self esteem, profiteering, or uncontrollable sexual urges.


Could this not be applied to many blue collar/white collar men and women of the professional world?
I could name a few right off the bat..

And again, your generalizing.



posted on Sep, 15 2004 @ 04:31 PM
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You DARE MAKE FUN OF MY BUNNY!


Anyways, you are generalizing as TL just said, and said before.

How much does a woman who works in a legal whorehouse make in Las Vegas? Probably more then I do, seeing as how I can't get a dang job. Maybe you are jealous that these women, and men, are making more than you?



posted on Sep, 17 2004 @ 10:23 AM
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Just to show what goes on under our noses with this profession:
See here


Personally I like the Gothic chick the best.


[edit on 17-9-2004 by jmilici]



posted on Sep, 17 2004 @ 10:39 AM
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Well it's too bad this thread has become a flamethrower arena. Can we all get back to the issue?

Having gone through the posts, I conclude:

(a) Most people on this board agree that it should be legalized
(b) There is a disagreement as to, to what extent that should be regulated

To the latter, seeing that most professional activities are licensed (heck, when I get my $10 haircut it's done by a duly licensed professional!), I don't see any reason why this shouldn't be regulated. There are separate licenses for commercial truck drivers, dental assistants, ad infinitum, all pay dues and membership fees of some sort. I don't see why this shouldn't be supervised.


[edit on 17-9-2004 by Aelita]

[edit on 17-9-2004 by Aelita]





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