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Greening the Sahara: A Simple Idea

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posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 05:08 PM
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reply to post by ipsedixit
 


Or even Australia.



Ok, I'll do some tinkering.......




posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 08:14 PM
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reply to post by HossBog
 


Ya, that is what I was wondering I have all those parts. I'll see if I can get it to work.



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 08:40 PM
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reply to post by Doublemint
 


If you could add an automatic timed comb/rake system to the evaporation pans (like the ones in fancy cat litterbox's), which could remove the larger salt crystals as they form from the evaporating saltwater. Then have the collection trough, where the rake deposits the salt crystals (bottomed by a weight activated conveyor belt) to remove the salt away from the evaporation system area . You could sell the salt to help offset other maintenance costs. Also the comb/rake system would help to eliminate the buildup of naturally occuring oils which cause surface contamination and slow down evaportion efficiencies. A squeegee/half-pipe on top of the comb/rake assembly could clean and clear the condensation panes to maintain clarity and prevent re-evaporation of the condensation already present.

Just a few thoughts.



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 08:47 PM
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reply to post by ipsedixit
 


I disagree.


It's a known fact every desert we know of was once under sea level. Same with every mountain range we know of. We find sea shells at 5Miles above sea level, we Find sea shells in the deepest of forest's. This world was once covered 100% by water.


Deserts are different tho. Most deserts are cut off from the ocean by large mountain ranges. However.. There is always a low spot for water to seep in if the ocean level rises. If the Ocean level rises by 12ft, every desert we know of would become a oasis. You mention the Sahara Desert. Just to make my post clear, Where the desert ends, is snow and mountains. Deserts play a HUGE ROLL in world weather patterns. All that hot air that merges with snowy mountain tops is the only way to make a desert a green field of love. Unless the sea rises high enough to spill into the deserts...



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 08:54 PM
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Originally posted by HossBog
reply to post by Agarta
 




Think it through. Cost prohibitive? Show me why. Tell that to the oil rich desert nations. You are running out of steam my friend. Want a glass of water? LOL



I know of machines that are placed in the desert and take the cold air of the morning and coverts it to water. We all know deserts have high heat. 100degrees plus, then at night it's 40 and below, low enough to extract water from air!. that's the only way to grow anything in the desert.... Unless your on the edge of where the desert meets snow covered mountains...



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 09:51 PM
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Originally posted by SelfSustainedLoner
All that hot air ...


. . . will come in handy evaporating fresh water from seawater.



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 11:05 PM
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reply to post by ipsedixit
 



My reaction toward your OP is poetry.



Its hard to not be moved by this story and the short film won an academy award in 1987.
Every human being should watch it, especially in Haiti.



posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 12:58 AM
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reply to post by ipsedixit
 


Only way I know to make sea water safe is to boil it with chlorine drops, with a spout that directs the steam excess . The steam is freshwater, but still needs to be treated for heavy metals once it recondenses into a bucket
edit on 15-12-2011 by SelfSustainedLoner because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by SelfSustainedLoner
reply to post by ipsedixit
 


Only way I know to make sea water safe is to boil it with chlorine drops, with a spout that directs the steam excess .


We are really talking about water for agricultural use here, but drinking water is of course necessary and may need further handling as it generally does, no matter where one is.


The steam is freshwater, but still needs to be treated for heavy metals once it recondenses into a bucket


My understanding is that evaporated water vapour leaves the heavy metals behind. I don't believe the recondensed vapour would need treatment for heavy metals.



posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 05:12 PM
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The problem with deserts, and the vast majority of the Sahara, is it's not soil, its SAND. The high salt content in that sand is how the ancient Egyptian DISCOVERED mummification, from when people died in the desert they were naturally preserved largely due to the high salt content of the sand. Reminds me of a skit I saw just before Sam passed away, though an earlier version.





posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 05:23 PM
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reply to post by Illustronic
 

That's a funny bit. It reminds me of the time that Jimmy Carter was chiding Mao about being too restrictive on the Chinese people, keeping them locked up in China. Mao said that maybe Carter was right and that he would open the door on Chinese emigration just a crack. He said he'd be willing to send the US, 20,000,000 people a year as a gesture toward more openess.

Carter didn't take him up on the offer.

Moving where the food is, is not so easy. Nobody wants these people. Just like nobody wanted the Jews prior to the holocaust.


edit on 15-12-2011 by ipsedixit because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 05:59 PM
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reply to post by Doublemint
 


That would be cool, I'm not terribly financial at the moment as I'm off work for 3 months with a medical codition so it could take me a while. I look forward to seing your results. Nice big photos if you wouldn't mind. I have some of the parts but not the solar panel or pump yet.




posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 06:36 PM
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Another option I looked into maybe 15 years ago was the idea of using
solar energy in the deserts, by using a concentrator, to melt the sand
and make components out of glass to build more solar concentrators, and
then start using them to make components for building structures like
geodesic domes or other covered and enclosed spaces. I wrote to a Japanese
company that is one of the top specialists in the world on glass, and they
said it could be done. An enclosed area reduces the need for so much water
for crops as it can be recovered and recirculated. Geodesic domes are self
air conditioning, will withstand winds over 150 miles an hour, and could be
totally buried under sand in the event of a storm and not collapse.
Even under structures that were not enclosed, you create shaded space that
could be used in many ways. There are lots of ways the desert could be used
productively, but it seems that there is little interest in projects that
make sense. As Buckminster Fuller, the inventor of the geodesic dome said,
"You can make money, or you can make sense. The two are mutually incompatible."
Money wins out every time it seems.



posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 10:23 PM
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reply to post by HossBog
 


yup, something basic to start, add a flanged copper pipe going from the lowest point on the cover down into the fresh water reservoir to help with the heat transfer between the cooler temps underground as well as a surface for the water to run along instead of just dripping. a basic picture worth a thousand words, certainly got my gears going, Thanks



posted on Dec, 16 2011 @ 06:07 AM
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reply to post by eagleeye2
 

Thanks for posting the film. It makes a great point in a beautiful way. Sometimes one person just has to go out and do something constructive on his own.



posted on Dec, 16 2011 @ 06:27 AM
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As people know, it can get extremely hot in the desert. Fun loving people will occasionally fry an egg on the hood of a car just to show how hot it is. It occurred to me that the plastic or glass covers on the containment ponds would have a greenhouse like effect at making the interior temperature of the containment pond even hotter than it is outside.

It is possible that given such heat, the idea in it's simplest form of a covered containment pond, might work very well and not even need solar panels.



posted on Dec, 16 2011 @ 05:35 PM
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What originally got me thing on this subject were the windtraps from the movie "Dune" and the windfarms on Tatooine from Star Wars that use evaporators to take moisture out of the air in the desert, so I looked at some solar stills on the net and changed it slightly so that you could use salt water and get evaporation during the day as well as the night.
Its a simple solution that doesn't need Star Wars technology. Pity Mars wasn't warmer..............
edit on 16/12/2011 by HossBog because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 06:55 PM
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Originally posted by dusty1
2 Trillion Dollar per Year Geoengineering of the Sahara


Sorry to take so long to reply to your post. I think it got lost in the shuffle, but thanks for posting.

Your linked article, above, is very interesting to me. I'm not quite sure what to make of it. People interested in this thread and the idea of greening of deserts should read this article carefully.

It seems possible to me that it actually may be a subtle form of disinformation.

Personally I don't think the prevailing powers in the world are interested yet in helping Africa and other desert places up onto their frail and emaciated knees and will not do so until they are perfectly prepared to exploit and control the economic ramifications of such efforts . . . completely.

Simply pumping seawater into greenhouse like containment/evaporation ponds in the desert will be tantamount to creating springs in the desert. Local authorities can create as many springs as they want and put them wherever they want.

Yes, politics will happen, and that is not a bad thing. To some extent, the more politics happening in a society the better. It means that there are economic opportunities in the society and that people are dickering over them. It is important for these people to have something to negotiate and plan about. It's the kind of development that doesn't require input from outside. It is a simple technology and seawater is an abundant resource.

Countries can start small and scale up. They can learn as they go. They can develop as societies.

They can get us outta their hair.

They can live in a land of plenty where things are run the way they want to run them.

The linked article above doesn't represent that sort of vision. I have a problem with it. Many of the current ideas in "global management" accepted in the western world have hidden pecuniary and political agendas attached to them.



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 07:31 PM
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Originally posted by HossBog
On a side note, lake ayre in australia was once a massive inland sea, most of it is below sea level. Why not fill it up? The amount of water evaporating from a shallow inland sea would be massive, maybe enough to change rainfall patterns in the red centre?


www.ga.gov.au... andforms-from-space.html

most of the water is lost through evaporation or absorption. When the lake does fill, it becomes temporarily Australia's largest lake as it spreads out to 9 500 square kilometres and at its deepest point and reaches almost six metres. This has occurred only three times this century, the latest being in 1989. The bed of Lake Eyre is the lowest area in Australia at 17 metres below sea level.


Wiki

Proposals to pipe or channel seawater into Lake Eyre from the Upper Spencer Gulf date back a long time; one such proposal was seriously considered by South Australian Parliament in 1883. Lake Eyre is a usually dry lake which at its lowest point is 15 meter below sea-level. Flooding Lake Eyre could create clouds and rain for inland Australia, which could similarly turn desert into fertile land.


Different Wiki

The water in the lake soon evaporates with a minor or medium flood drying by the end of the following summer.


Seriously. I'm all for Geoengineering. Just wait till the green tree huggers like my sister hear about it though and they'll get all up in your face about the extinction or endangerment it would cause to the local ant life...
edit on 26-12-2011 by DaRAGE because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 08:22 PM
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Here is a interesting project i found for collecting dew or fog water.
priyamsez.blogspot.com...
inquirylabs.com...
www.ecofriend.com...

But it will work in only a few deserts of the world




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