Will proof of the Higgs boson disappoint you?

reply to post by mandroids


A GOD particle will never be seen and never discovered. The God particle resides in the ether world (lack of a better word) and way beyond our technology.

Even if Higgs Boson theory is merely proven by us monkeys, it means nothing. It opens another math paradigm that needs more scrutiny. However, might be a good direction.

We have a long way to go to being beyond our own ape knowledge. We are nothing. We are ameba compared to our interstellar counterparts.

We are in fact a type 0-.

reply to post by NorEaster

It would seem that if this one particle actually causes all matter to have mass, then it would be as ubiquitous as its role in physical reality would seem to insist that it be.

Well, the Higgs field is ubiquitous. But – according to the model – the particle associated with it is very short-lived, quickly breaking down into more stable particles. That is why it is so elusive.

Here is a simple explanation of what a Higgs boson is. It leaves out a lot, but it gets the basic picture across.

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To answer the OP question: far from disappointing me, I would regard a Higgs boson discovery as setting the seal of authority on the Standard Model. We could then move on to try to solve various problems and challenges of the Standard Model as well as other unsolved problems in physics without having to worry that these problems exist because the model is wrong. That would be giant leap forward for human knowledge.

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Finally, a word to the Luddites and supernaturalists: could you please come up with some original objections to scientific discovery, for a change? Every time something new is invented or discovered, we are subjected to the same miserable old moans from you people: waste of money better spent on ending world hunger (or some such), clueless children playing with fire and risking disaster, puny human science will never uncover the ‘truth’, and it’s all just a con game devised to keep scientists in beach houses and Porsche 911s. Your doomsaying predictions are proven wrong every single time, yet you still keep up the bleating. I wish you’d find some new objections for a change, or else pipe down. You’re boring.

Well they still have to find the particle. As the press announcement pretty much just stated that "hey we didn't find it, but we know where to look for it now." It seems more like a press conference to reassure people that all the billions spent on the LHC with one of the main reasons in mind to find this particle hasn't gone to waste.

No, it wouldn't disappoint me one bit, as I haven't ever claimed to be the smartest person walking the face of the planet. Plus all the finding of this particle does is verify the standard model. What I have a problem with is when people start preaching science theories and hypothesis' as fact when they are not verified.

It's more or less the same argument of Creationism vs. Darwinism. Both are taught as fact depending on what region of the country you are in and there hasn't been any verifiable evidence to suggest that either are correct. As the only that has been verified in a lab is adaptation.

The finding of this particle only verifies the Standard Model of particle physics. Which in essence means all those physicist over the past decades didn't waste their time. If the Higgs is not found it would mean when it comes to particle physics they would have to start almost from scratch and figure out where all the particles fit in and where mass comes from.

Either way the Higgs Boson will only account for 0.2% of the mass in the entire universe. There will be a whole new slew of questions that will need answers if the Higgs is found. As the next thing will be where does the rest of the mass come from.

reply to post by Astyanax


"Finally, a word to the Luddites and supernaturalists: could you please come up with some original objections to scientific discovery, for a change?" End quote.

What discovery???? They discovered that they still haven't found the Higgs.
I have a green monster in my wardrobe and i have named him George, i have never seen him but i am sure he is there.

It will not disappoint me when they find it, it will amaze me, there is no mass. Scientists can spend the next million years looking for it but will they ever admit there is no mass?
Finding the Higgs will verify that standard model science is on the right track as yet we don't know if they are.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by Astyanax

 

I have a green monster in my wardrobe and i have named him George, i have never seen him but i am sure he is there.

Science theorised this effect from finding things that didnt add up without the mystery higgs boson.

So if you said you found green footsteps leading upto the closet but it was locked, you therefore theroise the monster was in there without seeing him, you would be far closer with the analogy to the cern project

reply to post by mandroids


Will proof of the Higgs boson disappoint you?

Absolutely not...This will create more questions and will lead to more discoveries and applications. There is still so much to learn about how our dimensions stick together.

Originally posted by zatara
reply to post by mandroids

 

Will proof of the Higgs boson disappoint you?

Absolutely not...This will create more questions and will lead to more discoveries and applications. There is still so much to learn about how our dimensions stick together.

I agree, but the onion layer aspect of the universe makes me think someone somewhere, has a pretty good sense of humour.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by Astyanax

 

It will not disappoint me when they find it, it will amaze me, there is no mass. Scientists can spend the next million years looking for it but will they ever admit there is no mass?

Ok, we have something that displays certain properties that we have come to call "mass" yet there is no mass? What the hell does that mean? I mean, I think I know what it's intended to mean yet I have no idea what the hell that # means and I see alot of it around this place.

There's light but I guess there's no light.

The utter nonsense is however admirable, if nothing else.

reply to post by The1Prettiest1One


Scientists have found no mass as yet. The Higgs Boson is the 'mass particle' that has not been found. Light has no mass. NO mass has been found 'anywhere' as yet.
The science world have believed that matter is the building block that makes our world and the world is based on this belief and now they have the technology to look inside things. They are looking inside atoms to find what makes the world solid and as yet have found nothing solid.
It is like looking into a rainbow and trying to find something solid.
The appearance appears real.

Originally posted by Biigs

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by Astyanax

 

I have a green monster in my wardrobe and i have named him George, i have never seen him but i am sure he is there.

Science theorised this effect from finding things that didnt add up without the mystery higgs boson.

So if you said you found green footsteps leading upto the closet but it was locked, you therefore theroise the monster was in there without seeing him, you would be far closer with the analogy to the cern project

Therein lies the problem of science.
"Theorized". In other words, they made it up in order to fit their "perfect and scientific" model.
I'm not going so far as green monsterland, but scientists in general need to have a more open mind because they are seemingly no different than religious zealots when it comes to alternative explanations to our surroundings.

Originally posted by the owlbearscientists in general need to have a more open mind because they are seemingly no different than religious zealots when it comes to alternative explanations to our surroundings.

At least scientists actually measure things and work through proving the theories, the idea you could measure a kings gold crown by dipping it in water seems stupid and wacked out back in the day, but after further proof it worked out and we have a law not a theory. So when a scientist goes out to prove a theory, he or she uses previously proved laws to help detirmin the best way to explain the theory, sure some creative thinking comes into it but its baised off somthing.

Religous zealots use faith and trust as a form of mesurment which is impossible to prove, so can only ever be a theory.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by The1Prettiest1One

 

Scientists have found no mass as yet. The Higgs Boson is the 'mass particle' that has not been found. Light has no mass. NO mass has been found 'anywhere' as yet.

Yes, we've found mass and can measure it consistently. The question is what is behind the manifestation of mass and inertia and so far that question at best has a theoretic explanation awaiting experimental validation or falsification.

The science world have believed that matter is the building block that makes our world and the world is based on this belief and now they have the technology to look inside things. They are looking inside atoms to find what makes the world solid and as yet have found nothing solid.

The only reason you know that is because of their work. By even making such a statement, it betrays your implicit trust in the findings. Besides, it isn't they who declare it "solid", it's the ones who think physicists think like pre-enlightenment barbarians.

It is like looking into a rainbow and trying to find something solid.
The appearance appears real.

The appearance is the appearance. Whether its true nature is deeper, more complex and substantially different from its appearance is another matter, one that rational investigation is responsible for bringing to light, piece by piece.

Will proof of the Higgs boson disappoint you?

Finding the elementary or fundamental particle will prove nothing. A question will always remain: what is the cause of this said particle?

OK lets say they prove it's existence. What does it do for humanity exactly? Can it make electricity, food? Help us travel to the stars? Help us expand into the universe so humanity ight survive any catasrophy here on earth? If not it was a HUGE waste of time and resources that could have been spent providing one of the above.

God the Entity does care a whit if scientists find something they choose to refer to as a 'god particle' ,God the Entity is well aware of 'particles' so find a Higgs Boson and then what ? we'll have an even more lethal world ending weapon? Whatever happens won't affect God the Entity and so won't affect my belief or trust in him.

so I guess I'm saying I won't be disappointed

reply to post by MrsBlonde

You know God exists?

You know what God thinks?

You wouldn’t be God Himself, would you?

If you are, can I have Your autograph?

With every answer, there are 20 more questions. There is still much more to learn, and then some.

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by MrsBlonde

 

You know God exists?

You know what God thinks?

You wouldn’t be God Himself, would you?

If you are, can I have Your autograph?

:l

You know God exists? yes

You know what God thinks? yes, because there is book that details this

You wouldn’t be God Himself, would you? no just an adopted kid

If you are, can I have Your autograph? Mrs.Blonde, use it for good not evil!!

Originally posted by mandroids
Today Cern will announce news concerning finding signs of the Higgs boson, or the so called “God Particle”.

I wonder if you will be disappointed that some of the mystery of the universe has been explained away. Does finding the God Particle decrease the chances of a deeper mystery and leave you filled with less wonder?

Nope not one bit. I mean after all we cannot see it spontaneously happen, we must go out and build a gigantic enormous machine to "force" it to form...which to me proves exactly the opposite of what you state in your OP.

reply to post by ldyserenity

We cannot see it spontaneously happen, we must go out and build a gigantic enormous machine to "force" it to form.

That is not quite how it works. You seem to be confusing the formation of very heavy but short-lived radioactive elements with the destruction of atomic nuclei. Both do occur in particle accelerators, but they are not the same process.

This explanation may help you understand the difference:

Both [experiments] have seen phenomena which look like traces of the Higgs. They are traces, rather than actual bosons, because no Higgs will ever be seen directly. The best that can be hoped for are patterns of breakdown particles from Higgses that are, themselves, the results of head-on collisions between protons travelling in opposite directions around CERN’s giant accelerator, the Large Hadron Collider (LHC). Heavy objects like Higgs bosons can break down in several different ways, but each of these ways is predictable. Both ATLAS and CMS have seen a number of these predicted patterns often enough to pique interest... Source

The Higgs boson doesn’t exist as a free-floating particle but, in a sense, it is always there, because the Higgs field is. The particle’s existence is implicit, so to speak, in the fact that objects have mass. You might say that that massive objects ‘contain’ Higgs bosons, except that when you crack them open you don’t find any Higgses inside. What you might find, though, if you were very clever and very lucky, would be the decay products left behind when a Higgs boson breaks down. And that is what the physicists at LHC appear to have found.

I recommend the source article above to anyone who wishes to understand, in plain, simple terms, what the discovery of the Higgs boson would actually mean for physics.