I learned that Hell was invented by Christian translations

Originally posted by SkyLiner
How can an all loving God, burn and torment people alive, for all of eternity?

How could a JUST GOD let someone like Hitler get away with it?

If there was no ultimate justice, then we shall all do whatever we want: steal, lie, cheat, kill people for fun ...

The concept of often abused "all loving" God is something many people like you "want" to believe about God - but God is NOT all loving - he DOES NOT LOVE CRIMINALS.

And before you come up with the also abused part of "God hates the sin and not the sinner" - NO, HE HATES THE SINNER.

You are turning God into what YOU would like Him to be, and not what He actually is.

Is it possible to look at this from the other end? I don't think there are any translation problems with words that describe the goodness of Heaven. So even if Hell means cast out place, or grave, or whatever, wouldn't it be punishment enough to know that you are closed off forever from all the goodness of Heaven, and that you screwed it up on your own? That's close enough to a "burning" remorse for me.

God is loving and God is just. There is a judgement for the wicked, for those who refuse to repent (change from their wicked ways and seek forgiveness), and this judgement is eternal.
- This is explained in the video I posted.

If God destroyed the sinner at the outset of sin, not only would we all be dead - For "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" and "the wages of sin is death," we would only falsely proclaim to love God out of fear.
Real love requires the freedom to choose.

25“But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

27“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’"

Humanism removes the belief in God and nurtures the idea that there is no higher accountability for ones actions here on physical Earth. It denies that God has the right to separate spirits. A murderer down here goes to prison or may even be executed - why then do people deny that there isn't a separation in a higher plane? That God would not punish or even bring a spirit to a final end?

Is it an eternity in a fiery hell? I believe that scripture paints a portrait of punishment for those who refuse His calling, and/or a permanent end to one's spirit. Either way, one doesn't choose God to avoid hell - one chooses God because He makes known the Light He placed into this world. Denying that Light is, by the very nature, a choice of darkness.

As all of us watch the removing of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob from people's lives here in the Western nations, we can see the downward spiral of society - millions in prison, security alarms on every home, children being driven to school for fear of pedophiles, tv and film producing matter which promotes everything as normal, homosexuality and lesbianism as something to experiment, drug addicts and pushers plying our children with their drugs, tolerance of other 'gods' whilst Jesus is ridiculed, the rise of falsehood within Christian churches leading people away from God's truth - all of which has really been pushed over the past one or two generations. Humanism has indoctrined most into darkness - and everyone that has put their faith into it has forsaken God for man.

I often find that humanism teaches that even if there is an afterlife that we are all somehow entitled to take part in it. How odd that people take the darkness' words and say that God would be evil to deny entrance to everybody or even that there is no form of punishment for spirits who disobey Him or mislead others into rebellion.
What form does hell take? I'm content with the message in the above scripture - it must be unbearable darkness, so much so that the thought of your family members who are still living but denying God would be your spirit's primary anguish - if only they would choose the Light instead of the darkness of the world. Nobody on their death bed regrets not having enough money - they regret the choices that they made. What would be worse than that? Not being able to accept the Light of our Redeemer, Jesus Christ, because we were already dead. There is no second chance. It's darkness that tells you otherwise, it's darkness that denies punishment, it's darkness that tells you that there is no God in the first place, it's darkness that denies an afterlife. Darkness seduces man to choose the here and now of the world instead of eternity with your Creator.

reply to post by YAHreigns
Hello friend.

I believe the main issue is the "eternal suffering and torment in flames" angle, as compared to an existence of hell, as he does mention Gehenna (and perhaps I misunderstood OP on that - the valley of ben Hinnom/"Gehenna" is an allegory for the lake of fire referred to in the new testament, where the bible DOES teach us the second death will occur for those judged accordingly at the great white throne and not found in the book of life, etc.).

There is "hell", but no one is tormented in it for all eternity - aside from the devil & his angels, as they were created immortal. Regarding your references:
Luke 12:5 - correlates to the verses in Matthew where Christ advises to fear not those who can destroy only the body, but to fear him who can destroy both body and soul in hell.

Luke 16:23 - the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. Not to be interpreted on a literal understanding of judgement for quite a few reasons as Christ was speaking to the pharisees in attendance and addressing their rejection of the message and coming rejection of Christ. Good breakdown hereat Tentmaker.org.

Psalm 9:17 - this is coming from hebrew sheol, referencing the grave.

Matthew 13:42 - I can easily believe that being thrown into fire would result in wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Now, for perspective:
Matthew:

28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Destruction, not eternal torment.

John:

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Contrast between "perishing" and eternal life.

Romans:

23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Death is the punishment for sin (not eternal life in flaming agony), the gift the saved receive is eternal life.

Ecclesiastes:

5 The living at least know they will die, but the dead know nothing

Granted, this one is more geared towards pre-judgement state of death as compared to people going right to heaven or hell, but it plays well in light of the Lazarus & Rich man parable.

Revelation:

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God,[c] and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Once again, an emphasis on judgement referring to a second death, not an inference of "eternal flaming agony".

I can understand why the church eventually adopted such an aggressive stance by way of "scared straight", but I cannot sanction it as it casts the creator as one who would punish temporal sins that occurred in the comparative blink of an eye with an entirely disproportionate and unceasing retaliation.

Incidentally, and I was not aware of this before a few months ago, the non-christian jews also have a common view on Gehenna I wasn't aware of - apparently more lenient than even my or Christianity's views - in believing that the wicked/unsaved suffer there for I believe a year, and then are welcomed into the world to come ("olam haba"), aside from the unlucky FIVE people who will suffer eternally - not sure who these few are offhand.

Take care.

reply to post by jellyfishbrains
For a bit more clarity before I read through the rest of the thread, 3 words translated as "hell" in the new testament.

Hades generally refers to the grave, or the state of the dead prior to judgement - essentially non-existence, rest, what-have-you.

Tarsus refers to the place of darkness and imprisoning under the earth, where the angels discussed in the Book of Enoch, 2nd Peter, and Jude (and maybe some few others?) are chain and awaiting judgement for their abandonment of station and rebellion against God, and their part in causing the wickedness that resulted in the flood.

And Gehenna, as we've discussed - the place of judgement and the second death for men, and the eternal torment of the rebellious angels.

Originally posted by autowrench
And, Christian Gnostics also state Yahweh is a dragon in their scriptures.
In other words, Yahweh is a Reptilian, or more likely a Draco.

In other words; devil worshippers

*mumbles something about 2nd line*

reply to post by YAHreigns

The bible clearly talks about a place that people go to if they don't repent of their sins and put their faith and trust in Jesus Christ. Accept the free gift, its only through Him we can be made perfect and be worthy of the kingdom of heaven.

LOL....."The Bible clearly states.....".

That's the whole point being made here. There's every reason to question what is written in the Bible. Certain issues deserve more scrutiny than others....and the issue of Hell is definitely one of them.

Originally posted by Taz2122

Originally posted by autowrench
And, Christian Gnostics also state Yahweh is a dragon in their scriptures.
In other words, Yahweh is a Reptilian, or more likely a Draco.

In other words; devil worshippers

*mumbles something about 2nd line*

Again, a made up being to scare. Gnostic Christians are now Devil worshipers? Jesus himself taught in the Gnostic ways.
Gnostic Christianity is an objective body of knowledge that Jesus taught to his people in private. It is not a mystery religion or heretical cult, nor is it Devil worship. "Gnostic," from the Greek term gnosis, means factual knowledge, specifically knowledge about the logos/logic of God. Gnostic Christianity is not about Jesus' public teachings; it is about the gnosis, or practical knowledge, that Jesus taught in private.

The private teachings of Jesus are mentioned in Mark 4:10-12, 4:33-34; Matthew 13:10-11, 13:34; and Luke 8:9-10.

So, I guess by your own logic, Jesus was a Devil Worshiper?
I wonder about you Christians sometimes...it is like you never research anything at all, but claim to know everything about the matter. That, I believe, is called Ego, and some have a massive one in here.

The devil and Satan is another word that has been completely taken out of context. It should almost always be viewed as being an opponent, or adversary. This was an adjective being wrongly viewed as a noun lol.

Hey guys again I don't know where to post this stuff that I recently just found in Antarctica but since you were all talking about Hell, I thought I would post these pics that I saved from Google Satellite. It is all there, you just have to open your eyes and it is there. I didn't photo shop any of it either. To me this is Hell where they took "sinners" to burn in the Pit...Also why is there an astronaut golfing statue there? I also found what looked like Hiter's head but now I can't find it.

I just don't know what to make of it all but clearly it is a sign of something am I right? Just at least look at the photos to see for yourself!

its supposed to be hot in hell , but it wouldnt be nice being consistently freezing either .

that christians invented the concept of hell is not supported . the quran has a clearer concept of hell . written ad 500

hell only comes after judgement day , before that its death or hades , according to the books . everyone living or dead is judged the same day and the same way > by their written account

along the way one may incur the wrath or vengeance of God . Or , of course his blessings .

Its either or . One or the other . Bad wrong unjust actions > you'll get karma. Its very very simple . Also why the godless hate god .

The concept missing is the abyss / ref. void pg 2

Defined by the dictionary is literally 'the gap between man and god' . If God is in heaven , as in space , what an enormous gap that is . An uncrossable chasm which, without faith , will swallow you .
Like a fish swallows and digests a maggot

Originally posted by autowrench

Originally posted by Taz2122

Originally posted by autowrench
And, Christian Gnostics also state Yahweh is a dragon in their scriptures.
In other words, Yahweh is a Reptilian, or more likely a Draco.

In other words; devil worshippers

*mumbles something about 2nd line*

Again, a made up being to scare. Gnostic Christians are now Devil worshipers? Jesus himself taught in the Gnostic ways.
Gnostic Christianity is an objective body of knowledge that Jesus taught to his people in private. It is not a mystery religion or heretical cult, nor is it Devil worship. "Gnostic," from the Greek term gnosis, means factual knowledge, specifically knowledge about the logos/logic of God. Gnostic Christianity is not about Jesus' public teachings; it is about the gnosis, or practical knowledge, that Jesus taught in private.

The private teachings of Jesus are mentioned in Mark 4:10-12, 4:33-34; Matthew 13:10-11, 13:34; and Luke 8:9-10.

So, I guess by your own logic, Jesus was a Devil Worshiper?
I wonder about you Christians sometimes...it is like you never research anything at all, but claim to know everything about the matter. That, I believe, is called Ego, and some have a massive one in here.

"You Christians"? What on earth are you smoking??

I hate religion, it's just a control mechanism for the weak minded.
I know because I was trapped in that hellhole fer years.

The devil remark was sarcasm. The bible (in fact all the abrahamitic faiths) is full of violence and bloodshed, this so called loving and caring "god" is anything but. He is in fact the complete opposite, hence my devil remark.

That is, if you believe in this sort of thing.

And yes, I know what gnosis is. That is what humanity needs, not silly beliefs.

reply to post by jellyfishbrains


The origins of the English word hell is from Norse mythology and is both the name of a deity Hel queen of the underworld and the domain over which she reign. There description of "Hel" in Norse mythology is similar to the description of Hades in Greek mythology. It is not described as hot place of torture but a cold damp place since that to the population of northern Europe is deemed more unpleasant. All people who died of sickness and old age went to Hel after they died so it is not a place of punishment as in Christianity. Instead those who were brave and died in battle were rewarded with a place in Valhalla.

reply to post by jellyfishbrains


Yes you are totally correct.
See this thread as to exactly why.
Hell is a Conspircacy Theory- Proved False, From The Bible

reply to post by sHuRuLuNi


You're dead wrong.

I'm not a believer in any gods, yet I don't kill, steal, pillage, etc.

Despite not believing in a supernatural sky-daddy, I still have a well defined set of morals and a respect for my fellow human beings.

I don't need fear of some divine punishment to act like a decent human being.

reply to post by jellyfishbrains


Yes you are absolutely right, born in sin, repentance, penitence and hell were all concocted by the original church, actually is the base of the Church or bread and butter, in order of for the Original church to thrive it needed to induce fear in their at the time no very well educated masses.

That is why the Bible at the time was only allowed to be read by Those selected by the Church, until it was stolen and translated for the masses.

reply to post by jellyfishbrains


Yes, it's true, even though Christians will in fact argue the point. Have you see this site? Link

reply to post by jellyfishbrains


You are 100% correct about Hell..don't believe a word of it.

Wanna know something else? heaven is a lie also..

The bible states that the dead are dead ( no heaven after death) The dead have no knowledge or thoughts. Heaven comes to earth.Heaven and "paradise" and the "kingdom of heaven and the "kingdom of God are all the same thing. One comma has tricked man kind into thinking they go to heaven after death.See how important grammar is?

Have a great day.

reply to post by jellyfishbrains


www.time.com...
Bishop of Durham say's that Christians are indeed wrong about heaven..and hell.

Read his book .."surprised by hope" rethinking heaven.