Reactor 4 is falling apart, Arnie Gundersen said "If #4 collapses, get the hell out of Japan"

Originally posted by Human0815

Originally posted by BoneMosaic
reply to post by Human0815

 

Maybe they should wait a few years until the Plant is more stable,
this must be controlled by an international Gremium!

I whole heartedly agree, we NEED an international Gremium!!!

I want my Gremium and I want it NOW!!!

Originally posted by Human0815

Originally posted by Justaposter

What really shocks me is how quiet China and surrounding Countries have been about this.

Maybe because they focus on the facts

(and forget that the danger will continue for the next 10- 20 years at least)

And who is providing these facts?

TEPCO? Because, well, they have lied through this whole disaster.

The Japanese government? They lie all the time to placate people.

For example Tokyo boasts a 90% murder conviction rate, but they don't tell you that they only call it murder if they already have a strong suspect. The rest get classified as things like "abandoned body". I read the expose by the detective who quit his job over it.

Originally posted by xavi1000
I dont get it ..from thousands nuclear scientist ,experts... only Arnie Gundersen know what is really going in Fukushima ? I see him all the time in reports and articles .

"thousands?" Please list a few hundred who refute what he is proposing. Then, check their credentials to see if they have ANY vested interest in the industry, the government, academe or other situation that suggest a conflict of interest. Then, actually put up a post that isn't some one liner rooted in nothing at all. We'll all await your research.

As for your "ONLY Arnie Gundersen." Only supposed you have spoken with the thousands you have referenced and have made an in depth effort to find all the possible folks who suggest things that are similar to him. He has backed off things he said earlier, so he does change is opinions.There are others who say similar things to him, but the reason you see him, is he seems to be the only one who has made an effort to make it a full time job to monitor it.

Maybe it would be helpful to point us all in the direction of the hundreds that are following full time, have websites and staff devoted to the effort, and are willing to put their opinions out there for the world to see on a weekly basis. We'll await your effort, as the links you provide will surely help sort out the truth, especially those who fear the worst.

My Wife's ex boyfriend lives there with his Wife and their kids, he said it's like a bad dream there are protests,
and food claims to be Radiation Free... which is diff, but overall there hasn't been any decline in goods or way of life so far for the bulk of the Island.

Nevertheless he is going with his family back to Texas.

Got me wondering..

Seems as good a reason as any to set up the FEMA camps mentioned on other threads, there could be millions of refugees if it wasn't contained properly which by all information it is falling apart rapidly over there..

Their need to cover up the fact they are willing to kill their own population with huge doses of radiation is a simple answer to all questions that will be asked later.

Yes:

They are willing to sacrifice anything to maintain their country and the current regimes hold on power.

No:

They will not allow their economy (the people) to flee in panic.


and just so we are all clear,

Tim Tebow could prob clean this mess up in no time : )

Originally posted by ottobot
Oh no.

It just keeps getting worse and worse for those folks.

The Ionizing Radiation from Japan shocked scientists over how fast it went SOUTH of the Equator.

It's effecting the entire planet. There are days when you can grab a piece of coral and the solid rock will crumble in your hands in a salt like form. The Ionized Radiation's energy is also converting Coral into Crystal as the highly charged particles create a current path for energy in the Van Allen Belts.

It came at a bad time, Jupiter is getting closer to us and it's 11 year orbit causing the sun to do it's 11 year magnetic pole flip....has Earth smack dab in the middle of what's about to occur.

3rd Rock from the Sun....and 11......see why 3:11 always pops up? We're going to see massive die offs and some crazy mutations in what survives....but with Fukushima making 2012's Suns magnetic flip even worse....our entire Van Allen Belts highly charged particles might dump their ENTIRE energy into Earth at once.

Maybe why the US Air Force has all the contracts to put satellites into orbit with tethers to release the energy from the Van Allen Belt BEFORE the big event in 2012. Weather is going to get crazier.

reply to post by thekaliyuga


I wondered the same thing, are we gearing up take in millions of refugees from Japan?

It sure would fix our economy if Japan became unliveable.

Originally posted by thorfourwinds

Originally posted by musashi9
I live in Japan and have done since the EQ. What a joke this thread is. bunch of nutters the lot of you!!!!

Greetings:

Thank you for your participation, such as it is.

Since you consider this thread a joke, why don't you start one to help "bunch of nutters" understand your perspective on the perceived crisis in your country?

We promise you more than an unsubstantiated rejoinder.

How long have you lived in Japan and what are you doing to help your fellow countrymen, if we may be so bold as to ask?

You seem to be able to throw out inane comments such as the one above, but will not/can not address the real situation, either due to lack of education and understanding, or the obvious intent to disrupt and derail any meaningful communication regarding the true situation at Fukushima Dai-ichi.

Please feel free to join us on any of our signature threads and answer this comment that was left for you by esteemed member j&c, if you please.

Here would be a good place to share your knowledge:
Japan declares a ‘nuclear emergency‘ after quake

As soon as the rods melted through the bottom of the containment vessel and became a molten puddle of radioactive lava (corium) it started melting through the concrete basemat.

At this point, no known technology on earth has the capability to stop the uncontrolled nuclear reaction.

The amount of time this would have taken depends upon a number of factors, but suffice to say, by this time, if the blob hasn't been diluted enough by the concrete, it's in the sandstone/mudstone beneath presently.

If by some chance any of the corium masses haven't made it through the basemat, and they do break through reaching a liquid volume of any appreciable size, and we may see a steam explosion which would leave quite an impressive crater, taking most of the site with it.

We look forward to further communication and perhaps learning something from your unique viewpoint.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Peace Love Light
tfw
[align=center][color=magenta]Liberty & Equality or Revolution[/align]

edit on 13/12/2011 by thorfourwinds because: type color?

great job at calling him out. looks like he ran for the hills on this one, props to you.

Just a small personal note, probably not related. I've had canker sores inside my mouth for my whole life, genetics, my dad gets them but mom and brother don't. Ever since the Japan disaster in March they have been coming on at a MUCH higher rate than I've ever experienced in my 26 years. I live in California and it's been a concern to me that maybe it's the radiation from Japan, I don't know. I used to only get one or two a month and over the last few months it's been more like 7-8 and I never really have periods of time where I don't have any at all, as soon as one heals another one or two seem to pop up. Had a few sore throats and random nose bleeds lately too, don't know if it's just me though. I've always bruised easily but I remember a few months back I got a large bruise on my leg that took more than 2 months to heal. It didn't hurt much at all and I don't even remember what caused it. I really have to wonder how contaminated we are here because I do not believe the government will ever tell us the truth. I hope they can get things under control over there but I feel it is already too late for a lot of people. Sadness.

" ...but the owl , the bitterne , and the bat shall live there.. "

When it melts down and out it will be a mess. maybe we should poke it with a big stick and watch it burn. I would be adding a lot of sand, alumina, borax and other crap to it to kill neutron flux and make the core mass sticky and gluey with a high MP so when it melts out it won't go very far. As a slag ball it will burn till it hits water and KA-BOOM and there will be a god awful mess.

Dr Helen Caldicott describes radiation as silent - you cannot see it - you cannot taste it - you cannot hear it and you cannot capture it.

Anything that comes in this form must surely be handled with utmost care. As long as I know that people are prepared to lie and deceive I will seek out the truth from anywhere but the mainstream media. Anyone on this site that believes Fukishima is not an ongoing problem is in denial.

I feel for the people of Japan and I know that the rest of the world will be affected one way or another. Unfortunately people have to see Children and animals born with disease and physical anomalies. There are people who cannot be informed because they know it all. Looking at any world map it is always important to look at the devastated area and then remove all the country borders and boundaries - we are all on this planet together and the wind blows over us all - the water on the planet is shared by us all. Water in particular - is rained down and then makes its way up and then rains down again. Mother nature has her own cycle and it moves all over the planet without restriction. The weather patterns we are given by experts are just that - patterns and as with nature patterns are a base upon which change occurs.

A poster included a news article about monkeys being used to measure radiation - why is it scientists never test on themselves? They always test on innocent animals - why? Because they do not have the answers but know they are working with deadly elements and do not want to die.

Why is it the cabal/illuminati/whatever never seem to fall victim to atrocities - only innocent people going about their daily lives and living as respectfully as they are able? When will the cabal/illuminati/whatever fall on its own sword?

Much Peace...to all in Japan and know that many know the truth and care about you...

reply to post by Amanda5


We are such arrogant creatures sometimes, and we tend to be foolish humans at best (but we seem to aim for the stars claiming god hood...).

The Tsunami, the other Earthquakes were bad (as were the natural forces) but what happened in Japan really shook many developed countries to the core (up until that point Japan was seen as this all pioneering land mass producing amazing technology for the world).

Editorial: Japan's nuke meltdown shouldn't close U.S. plants

Another serious accident could take the U.S. nuclear industry down with it. The Fukushima disaster serves as a reminder that, in nuclear power.
Reassuringly, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) has been focusing on the electricity problem. Plants now typically have just four hours of backup power (although some have ways to keep electricity going for 14 to 16 hours). The Fukushima plant was without power for several days.
Germany, not known for the types of natural disasters that triggered Japan's crisis, responded to the Fukushima Dai-ichi disaster by shutting down eight of its 17 reactors and moving to phase out the rest by 2022. Should the United States follow suit?

www.usatoday.com...

More bruise on eastern Japanese

fukushima-diary.com... hima+Diary%29


Helen Caldicott Interview, The Big Picture with Thom Hartmann, Dec. 11, 2011:

NYT: Helen Caldicott, a pediatrician, is founding president of Physicians for Social Responsibility. A native of Australia, she left her Harvard Medical School post in 1980 to work full-time on anti-nuclear education.

Transcript Excerpts

At 2:39 in

May I say that North America has received quite a large fallout itself.

At 3:15 in

We’re going to see an incredible increase in cancer, leukemia, and — down the time track — genetic disease. Not just in Japan but in the Northern Hemisphere, particularly North America.

At 5:00 in

There have been three actual melt-throughs [...]

There could be massive hydrogen explosions still or steam explosions [...]

Building 4 is very unstable and its got a very hot cooling pool on top of it. If there’s another earthquake that building could collapse and who knows how much radiation could escape

www.youtube.com...

h/t Anonymous tip, ettienneable1

After Fukushima – Enough Is Enough, New York Times By HELEN CALDICOTT, December 2, 2011:

[...] Many thousands of people continue to inhabit areas that are highly contaminated, particularly northwest of Fukushima. Radioactive elements have been deposited throughout northern Japan, found in tap water in Tokyo and concentrated in tea, beef, rice and other food. In one of the few studies on human contamination in the months following the accident, over half of the more than 1,000 children whose thyroids were monitored in Fukushima City were found to be contaminated with iodine 131 — condemning many to thyroid cancer years from now.

Children are innately sensitive to the carcinogenic effects of radiation, fetuses even more so. Like Chernobyl, the accident at Fukushima is of global proportions. Unusual levels of radiation have been discovered in British Columbia, along the West Coast and East Coast of the United States and in Europe, and heavy contamination has been found in oceanic waters. [...]

enenews.com...

Originally posted by GothamKnight
We are all suffering from information overload.

that's just how tptb like it

when i read this:

...emphasizing the precarious situation of the fourth reactor that contains 1,535 nuclear fuel rods in the pool and is balanced ...

i thought that 1535 rods was a supersized ammount of fuel rods

overkill in fact/...i reckon that 1535 rods allowed the reactor to almost instantly start generating tens-of-hundreds of watts of electric in 5 minutes and mega-watts in less than 15 minutes...

all for the immediate needs of a spoiled population...no...not because they are Japanese---the plant was commissioned there but after a period of testing i bet the design was going to be put into operation here in the USA if not France too


the over-sized nuclear pile was designed for quick power production and safety measures were compromised to allow that 1535 rod design to be put 0n-line



lets hear from actual engineers that want to buck-the-system & become whistleblowers


this is all a case of cover-up &^ deliberate obfuscation of facts/data/knowledge--- all for the friggin Profits
imho





i think its a Yahoo news article that says the reactors in Japan have pumped out radiation that is 50,ooo tics above normal, for the Ocean Water... that the whole Pacific is becoming deadly & toxic

reply to post by St Udio


I'm guessing they weren't all in the reactor at the same time. It is a spent fuel pool, used to store the rods that are used up for energy production, but still very hot and radioactive. They sit in these cooling pools for a long time until they are cool enough to move into other types of long term storage.

The monumentally stupid thing was putting the storage pool upstairs in the first place, lots of things could cause problems with that setup.

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady


There has been a statement by Japanese government to the consideration of a 30 Kilometer zone around the accident at the site at Fukushima. This is a greater zone then was installed around Chernobyl in the Ukraine. I dont know the similarities of the 2 reactors that are in 2 different countries but the mechanics is the same there has been melt down in both situations. I watched a special on the Chernobyl area that they have been exploring and studying the area and they still dont spend much time inside the zone for safety reasons obviously.
Fukushima is about 140 miles north of the largest metro area in Japan that consists of Tokyo and Yokohama over 15 million and a bunch of other smaller cities at least 100k to 400k population in size. If the problem would widen as it could having all those reactors in a close proximity to the one that melted down it could spell catastrophe for the entire Japanese mainland 100 miles north and south of Fukushima. Who builds 6 reactors on the ocean shores known for tsunamis and does it on what is geologically nick named the ring of fire. Poor planning by the Japanese people and government have left an example of what could be the most careless thoughtless idiotic place to put a group of nuclear reactors. Its as though a bunch of psychotic fools decided to build these.
France and US have a lot of Nuclear power and have done a very good job managing it up to this point but its clear to me that they really need to put new nuclear power plants on hold as well as crank up the emergency and safety regulations regarding these power plants. The older plants over 30 years old need to be decommissioned or have complete inspections so non of them wind up like Fukushima.
Also the NRC needs to study all geographical sites of existing plants and future plants so nothing this crazy and dangerous happens in the US. Its bad enough we have over 104 nuclear power reactors and the map the NRC put out there for us all to see didnt even have the reactor located near Charleston WVA. How do you forget to put a reactor on the map? Maybe they dont want anyone to know about that one lol. Well its on a major river and on a highway so its impossible to hide. Im convinced that a lot of the problem isnt what people are doing to us its just plan lack of planning as well as ignorance to the cause and effect.. for example. A nuclear scientist may not have an understanding of geography like I do and so they may miss the fact they want to build there reactor 30 miles from a major fault line or 10 meters from a place that documents waves that can be up to 45 feet high. The NRC needs to employ more people from different back rounds rather then just people with knowledge of Nuclear Reactors. Energy companies want to make money fine, but not until we the people ok it.

reply to post by AGWskeptic

Imagine the exploding price of real estate when 30 million of the 120 million + Japanese come calling on the US. LOL I can dream maybe the price of my properties would go up. Ya right if anything the government would find a way to screw me their too . Fukushima and those on the rock of Japan will be stuck as we are stuck. Unless you have a visa already in place and lots of cash to spread around the the necessarily people, you are a prisoner in your country. The whole propaganda of nationalism is just to keep people from migrating to better economies. Its sad that hundreds of millions of people buy into the trash our governments put out as facts. Its nice to have pride where you come from and nice to understand culture and your lineage but its criminal and not humane to force a population to stay somewhere they dont want to be. Imagine a world where anyone that can afford to travel can do so without being treated like a criminal. Search and show me your papers. Helvolt Hio Hitler! The tyranny of the Illuminati is stronger then any regime that has controlled any group of people.

Originally posted by lover088

A mysterious and potentially widespread disease is thought to have contributed to the deaths of dozens of ringed seals along Alaska's Arctic coast. Scores more are sickened, some so ill that skin lesions bleed when touched. The animals are an important subsistence food, and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration has proposed listing them as threatened or endangered under the Endangered Species Act. In July, biologists with the North Slope Borough's Department of Wildlife Management began receiving reports of ringed seals hauled out on beaches, an unusual behavior since the animals usually prefer the water or ice. Since then, they've found at least 100 seals with telltale mangy hair and skin lesions, mostly while traveling by four-wheeler along 30 miles of Beaufort and Chukchi sea coastline outside Barrow.

Not shooting you down, But when I read this at the end they say they are in Barrow - Barrow is at the Very top of Alaska, not near any of the red/orange/yellow bits in the map below. Unless they travel around from the other coast - Do they do that? (I genuinely want to know, not being sarcastic)

reply to post by lover088




I don't know who Arnie is but someone is spreading it knee deep around here. The "south wall"? The "west wall"? Walls? What walls? The outside walls of the building or maybe the next set inside? Certainly not the containment vessel walls because that structure is round. Round? Gosh how can a round room have a "south wall"? I dunno. Why not ask Arnie, whoever he is. While you're at it ask him what he's been smoking.