It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Man in wheelchair shot dead by Visalia police

page: 1
6
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 03:32 PM
link   



VISALIA, Calif. — A man in a wheelchair has been shot and killed by Visalia police after allegedly lunging toward an officer with a knife.


Let's see here...We have a man in a "Wheelchair" accused of Shoplifting apparently armed with a knife.



Visalia police have not released the man's name. Police Chief Colleen Mestas tells the Times-Delta that an officer, fearing for his life, fired two shots after the man allegedly stood up with the weapon outside a Marshall's store where he had tried to flee in his chair.


I wasn't there. But this really looks bad.

Where is the Taser or non-lethal force?

What about just putting stick in the wheels?

Just when I was getting in the Christmas spirit.


Local Story




posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 03:35 PM
link   
It will be on their conscious from time to time to justify this. SAD, never understood lethal force being used against a person with a blade. I understand it may be some supertrained knife thrower out there so use less lethal force but to take a life. It just seems that many (not all) who are in law enforcement get the mindstate that hey its a legal KILL so its all good full forgetting who else or the REAL judge that seen them and felt their energies when they killed. I dont know what happened other from what I read bu seriously how could he have been deadly..
edit on 12/12/11 by Ophiuchus 13 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 03:45 PM
link   

Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13
It will be on their conscious from time to time to justify this. SAD, never understood lethal force being used against a person with a blade. I understand it may be some supertrained knife thrower out there so use less lethal force but to take a life. It just seems that many (not all) who are in law enforcement get the mindstate that hey its a legal KILL so its all good full forgetting who else or the REAL judge that seen them and felt their energies when they killed. I dont know what happened other from what I read bu seriously how could he have been deadly..
edit on 12/12/11 by Ophiuchus 13 because: (no reason given)


There is a big misconception about the danger of blades. In many ways, knives can be MORE lethal than guns. A person can inflict greater physical damage with a blade and can traverse quite a distance between his victim. Even if the victim has a gun for self-defense, in the time it takes him to draw, aim and fire, the attacker can cut the victim in a place that could cause a very fast bleedout. As such, a knife is considered a lethal weapon the same as a gun.

HOWEVER, the cop should know better than to use deadly force against someone who is not ambulatory. All the cop had to do was take a step or two back and he's out of harm's way of the blade. How far can a person confined to a wheelchair "lunge" at someone?? This is WAY over the top. The cop should not only be fired, but prosecuted. Unbelievable.




edit on 12-12-2011 by AwakeinNM because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 03:49 PM
link   
Is this the kind of training our cops are getting? Military tactics? Citizens are the "enemy" - shoot first, ask questions later?

This has got to stop, but it isn't. It seems it's just getting worse.



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 03:51 PM
link   
That article doesn't say much.All it does is just say the cop shot the man.It also says the man stood up out of the wheelchair.If that's the case then obviously there's a lot more to this story.I'll wait till updates come out before I accuse the cop of wrong doing.Also,even if the man was tazed people on this site would still cry about it."oh poor man in a wheelchair was tazed by big mean cop" all the while ignoring,if true,that he stood up out of said wheelchair with a weapon.

edit on 12-12-2011 by nightstalker78 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 04:00 PM
link   
Well let's take the wheel chair out of the equation, since it seems he stood up. Many people use the appearance of a handicap to commit crime daily. So for the sake of argument let us leave the wheel chair out of this. That is added as nothing more than an emotional bait in the story anyway.

A guy with a knife is shot dead by police. Granted the guy would in many cases need to be close to harm the officer. I say in many cases because even I as an untrained knife thrower can hit a target and get a knife to stick or at least hit blade first around 75% of the time or more. Hitting a target is not that difficult, now throwing a knife and inflicting some serious damage will require more skill. That said though there is always the chance you can get lucky. At the very least you can throw the knife and use it as a distraction while you pull another weapon or go after the weapon being held against you.

Not saying I agree the guy should have died but logic dictates that if you have a gun pointed at you and you have a knife in your hand you do not make sudden movements (standing up) with the knife still in your hand. Even though it is sad the guy got killed had the guy been tasered people would have been up in arms about a guy in a wheel chair (that would have been the title) being tasered even if he was not confined to the chair. If the guy was truly confined to the chair it would make a difference, however you cannot know that just rolling up on a scene. As I said many people play the emotions of others to commit crime daily. Pretending you need a wheel chair to commit crime has been used for ages.

Raist



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 04:01 PM
link   
Oops... wrong thread..
edit on 12/12/2011 by chiron613 because: Responded to the wrong thread.



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 04:01 PM
link   
reply to post by whyamIhere
 


It does sound bad, we will need more information to determine the justification .. so far from the cops point of view I can see the rationality of the incident: A guy committing a crime in a wheelchair suddenly stand up and lunges with a knife.

Though I still say any cop that shoots someone holding a knife is a p###y. Are cops not trained in hand to hand combat and to disarm someone holding a knife?



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 04:02 PM
link   

Originally posted by nightstalker78
That article doesn't say much.All it does is just say the cop shot the man.It also says the man stood up out of the wheelchair.If that's the case then obviously there's a lot more to this story.I'll wait till updates come out before I accuse the cop of wrong doing.Also,even if the man was tazed people on this site would still cry about it."oh poor man in a wheelchair was tazed by big mean cop" all the while ignoring,if true,that he stood up out of said wheelchair with a weapon.

edit on 12-12-2011 by nightstalker78 because: (no reason given)


As stated in the OP....I wasn't there. I did not assign blame.

If you look at the picture. It doesn't look like he made it too far.

In another article it said it was unclear if the officer had a tasar.

It just "SEEMS" like overkill....I wasn't there.



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 04:08 PM
link   
reply to post by whyamIhere
 


Mmmmm I would have to get more info on this before Id make a judgement call.

Minimal force nessissary vs a knife is lethal force.

If you have a person with a knife 5 feet from another person with a holstered gun, who do you think will win?

The knife!

I dont remember the specifics we were taught in the academy. It take a person with a holstered gun so many seconds to be able to have his weapon up in time to fire to protect himself. It's alot higher than you would think. I think it's like less than a second per foot that a person with a knife can travel and act.


So yeah, screw a tazer. If someone has a knife, you better hope you can shoot them before they burry that blade in your kidney. And it's a justified shooting.



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 04:14 PM
link   

Originally posted by whyamIhere

Originally posted by nightstalker78
That article doesn't say much.All it does is just say the cop shot the man.It also says the man stood up out of the wheelchair.If that's the case then obviously there's a lot more to this story.I'll wait till updates come out before I accuse the cop of wrong doing.Also,even if the man was tazed people on this site would still cry about it."oh poor man in a wheelchair was tazed by big mean cop" all the while ignoring,if true,that he stood up out of said wheelchair with a weapon.

edit on 12-12-2011 by nightstalker78 because: (no reason given)


As stated in the OP....I wasn't there. I did not assign blame.

If you look at the picture. It doesn't look like he made it too far.

In another article it said it was unclear if the officer had a tasar.

It just "SEEMS" like overkill....I wasn't there.


Oh I know,I wasn't accusing you of doing that.Sorry it came across that way.The only way to know if it was overkill is to wait until all the facts come out.In my last post I was pointing out that there's many people here who WILL assign blame without knowing all the facts.Sorry for not being clear.



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 04:14 PM
link   
"COP SHOOTS KNIFE WIELDING MAN PRETENDING TO BE HANDICAPPED" should be the title. The guy stood up. It was like an ambush. The cop had no choice. Tazers may take too long to deploy.



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 04:17 PM
link   
reply to post by whyamIhere
 


Right off the bat, I have to remind people that shoplifters have lots of ruses. Just because he was in a wheelchair doesn't mean he was not ambulatory. The chair could have been a ruse. Second, I agree with others, a knife is very dangerous, and a cop has no way of knowing if the guy is going to continue to advance or fall to the ground. A cop should act to protect his own life when being attacked. I don't blame him a bit, everyone wants to go home at the end of their workday.



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 04:17 PM
link   
Jeez. Couldn't of they just knocked the guy over with the cruiser?
A bit excessive. But if he really did have a knife. And not just one planted on him by the cops.
They could of tased the guy instead of shooting him.



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 04:19 PM
link   
UnF***ing Believable!! I thought police were braver than that....apparently not well trained to handle such threats (like jump back and to the left or right). I guess someone in uniform will feel justified to kill granny armed with a butter knife next or some little kid with a toy knife...if the officer feels "threatened." Dont they carry an expanding wand or billy club and/or a taser on their belt? What a coward.



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 04:20 PM
link   
The same thing happened in San Francisco in January. The shooting victim got up out of a wheelchair with a knife. The officers used bean bag rounds and a taser, but they eventually shot and killed him, after an officer had been stabbed

Perhaps this story was in the minds of the Visalia officers.

San Francisco wheelchair shooting



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 04:21 PM
link   
reply to post by getreadyalready
 

Yes, I suppose you are right...and that is why all of the old ladies have to be frisked and strip searched by the TSA. They really might be some terrorist in disguise.



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 04:32 PM
link   

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by whyamIhere
 


Right off the bat, I have to remind people that shoplifters have lots of ruses. Just because he was in a wheelchair doesn't mean he was not ambulatory. The chair could have been a ruse. Second, I agree with others, a knife is very dangerous, and a cop has no way of knowing if the guy is going to continue to advance or fall to the ground. A cop should act to protect his own life when being attacked. I don't blame him a bit, everyone wants to go home at the end of their workday.



Looks a lot like the wheelchair got shot along with him? but that's just off the bat too.

More,

www.visaliatimesdelta.com...
edit on 12-12-2011 by smurfy because: Text.



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 04:36 PM
link   
reply to post by Rockpuck
 





Though I still say any cop that shoots someone holding a knife is a p###y. Are cops not trained in hand to hand combat and to disarm someone holding a knife?


You have to understand that a knife wound is just as lethal as a gunshot. Why should the cop risk putting himself in more danger going toe to toe?



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 05:14 PM
link   

Originally posted by Domo1
reply to post by Rockpuck
 





Though I still say any cop that shoots someone holding a knife is a p###y. Are cops not trained in hand to hand combat and to disarm someone holding a knife?


You have to understand that a knife wound is just as lethal as a gunshot. Why should the cop risk putting himself in more danger going toe to toe?


Most people understand knives are lethal weapons,
rockpuck, (apologies for the wrong name earlier) was asking a relevant question, are they trained or are they not? Martial arts are lethal too, so you shoot someone who waves his hands at you! What about the aftermath, 15 minutes for an ambulance, told to roll over to get cuffed...unbelievable.
edit on 12-12-2011 by smurfy because: Error.



new topics

top topics



 
6
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join